Any plumbers here? I need some help
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Western Massachusetts
BREWDUDE, yes the air attmitance valve, or as I know it, an automatic vent, would work and it would be pretty easy. They aren't leagal in MA. The only thing you have to watch out for is that if it fails in the open position, and they do, it will allow sewer gasses into your house.
Pulling off the 2" clean out plug in the basement doesn't actually create a vent. A vent will only work properly if it's taken off the drain above the center line. For a kitchen sink this would be above the trap. On a flat bottom fixture like a bath tub I would roll a wye fitting above the centerline of the drain it's connected to and continue it to a wall to be connected with the venting system. Botton line is, if your drain goes through the floor, it's not vented. So, you don't have a "venting" problem, as you have a lack of vent and the wrong trap for the application.
At this point, based on what you've discribed, the gurgle you have is created when the water leaves the trap. It's creating a syphon. It's trying to pull the water out of the trap. It doesn't gurgle if you just run a little water down the sink, right? S-traps are prohibited in MA, and probably in NJ too, because they are subject to syphonage.
As far as why this is happening when the drain has worked for years. Has anything changed? Did you change any of the drain parts, or maybe add a garbage disposer? Did you snake the drain from the 2" clean at the 30' mark? One thing that we see often is if there is a copper drain, like your kitchen sink drain if it's copper, that ties into a cast iron stack, or horizontal drain, you'll get a build up of rust and debris. The two dissimilar metals cause electrollosis(?sp). It's actually quite common.
You'll get this one!
Pulling off the 2" clean out plug in the basement doesn't actually create a vent. A vent will only work properly if it's taken off the drain above the center line. For a kitchen sink this would be above the trap. On a flat bottom fixture like a bath tub I would roll a wye fitting above the centerline of the drain it's connected to and continue it to a wall to be connected with the venting system. Botton line is, if your drain goes through the floor, it's not vented. So, you don't have a "venting" problem, as you have a lack of vent and the wrong trap for the application.
At this point, based on what you've discribed, the gurgle you have is created when the water leaves the trap. It's creating a syphon. It's trying to pull the water out of the trap. It doesn't gurgle if you just run a little water down the sink, right? S-traps are prohibited in MA, and probably in NJ too, because they are subject to syphonage.
As far as why this is happening when the drain has worked for years. Has anything changed? Did you change any of the drain parts, or maybe add a garbage disposer? Did you snake the drain from the 2" clean at the 30' mark? One thing that we see often is if there is a copper drain, like your kitchen sink drain if it's copper, that ties into a cast iron stack, or horizontal drain, you'll get a build up of rust and debris. The two dissimilar metals cause electrollosis(?sp). It's actually quite common.
You'll get this one!
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 437
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From: Jersey shore
Originally Posted by wittom
BREWDUDE, yes the air attmitance valve, or as I know it, an automatic vent, would work and it would be pretty easy.
Pulling off the 2" clean out plug in the basement doesn't actually create a vent. A vent will only work properly if it's taken off the drain above the center line. For a kitchen sink this would be above the trap. On a flat bottom fixture like a bath tub I would roll a wye fitting above the centerline of the drain it's connected to and continue it to a wall to be connected with the venting system. Botton line is, if your drain goes through the floor, it's not vented. So, you don't have a "venting" problem, as you have a lack of vent and the wrong trap for the application.
At this point, based on what you've discribed, the gurgle you have is created when the water leaves the trap. It's creating a syphon. It's trying to pull the water out of the trap. It doesn't gurgle if you just run a little water down the sink, right? S-traps are prohibited in MA, and probably in NJ too, because they are subject to syphonage.
As far as why this is happening when the drain has worked for years. Has anything changed? Did you change any of the drain parts, or maybe add a garbage disposer? Did you snake the drain from the 2" clean at the 30' mark? One thing that we see often is if there is a copper drain, like your kitchen sink drain if it's copper, that ties into a cast iron stack, or horizontal drain, you'll get a build up of rust and debris. The two dissimilar metals cause electrollosis(?sp). It's actually quite common.
You'll get this one!
Pulling off the 2" clean out plug in the basement doesn't actually create a vent. A vent will only work properly if it's taken off the drain above the center line. For a kitchen sink this would be above the trap. On a flat bottom fixture like a bath tub I would roll a wye fitting above the centerline of the drain it's connected to and continue it to a wall to be connected with the venting system. Botton line is, if your drain goes through the floor, it's not vented. So, you don't have a "venting" problem, as you have a lack of vent and the wrong trap for the application.
At this point, based on what you've discribed, the gurgle you have is created when the water leaves the trap. It's creating a syphon. It's trying to pull the water out of the trap. It doesn't gurgle if you just run a little water down the sink, right? S-traps are prohibited in MA, and probably in NJ too, because they are subject to syphonage.
As far as why this is happening when the drain has worked for years. Has anything changed? Did you change any of the drain parts, or maybe add a garbage disposer? Did you snake the drain from the 2" clean at the 30' mark? One thing that we see often is if there is a copper drain, like your kitchen sink drain if it's copper, that ties into a cast iron stack, or horizontal drain, you'll get a build up of rust and debris. The two dissimilar metals cause electrollosis(?sp). It's actually quite common.
You'll get this one!
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Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: South Jersey
Wittom....
Hmmmm...Gotchya. You are correct, it does not gurggle if I run a little bit of water down it. The drain from the sink is copper, but if I remember correctly, after the 30' run, it makes another 90 and turns left and then runs about 5 feet to the stack, I think at that 90 I just mentioned it transitions to PVC, but im not 100% on that. Maybe just the clean out is PVC and then the pipe to the stack is copper as well. That is one place that I never snaked, right after the cleanout to the main stack. I guess I will give that a try, prolly thursday night. Lets hope that works.
Let me ask you this....if the pipe that goes from the bottom of my S-Trap thru the floor, is cracked between the S and the 90 directly under it, which is no more than a 12" run, would that suck air and cause this gurggle?? I ask, because yesterday I did notice a very small drip, under the house where that pipe comes thru the floor. Its real hard to see because the bottom of the cabinet is about 3" off the sub floor, but I have reason to believe there may be a problem in that area. Just wondering if thats the case, would it cause the gurggle??
Thanks again man...once this is all done, I'll owe you a beer or two.
BREW
Hmmmm...Gotchya. You are correct, it does not gurggle if I run a little bit of water down it. The drain from the sink is copper, but if I remember correctly, after the 30' run, it makes another 90 and turns left and then runs about 5 feet to the stack, I think at that 90 I just mentioned it transitions to PVC, but im not 100% on that. Maybe just the clean out is PVC and then the pipe to the stack is copper as well. That is one place that I never snaked, right after the cleanout to the main stack. I guess I will give that a try, prolly thursday night. Lets hope that works.
Let me ask you this....if the pipe that goes from the bottom of my S-Trap thru the floor, is cracked between the S and the 90 directly under it, which is no more than a 12" run, would that suck air and cause this gurggle?? I ask, because yesterday I did notice a very small drip, under the house where that pipe comes thru the floor. Its real hard to see because the bottom of the cabinet is about 3" off the sub floor, but I have reason to believe there may be a problem in that area. Just wondering if thats the case, would it cause the gurggle??
Thanks again man...once this is all done, I'll owe you a beer or two.
BREW
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,919
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From: Western Massachusetts
I don't think a cracked pipe would cause the noise. It could, I guess, but I don't think so. When I encounter a cracked pipe it's usually because a leak has been discovered.
If the hole that was drilled for the pipe is just big enough for the pipe to pass through then it's drilled to small. If you do have a cracked or corroded pipe (corrosion often occurs on the pipe if it passes through a hole that is to tight ((get your mind out of the gutter))).
If you end up replacing the piping that passes through the cabinet and sub floor, your going to have to enlarge thoes holes. Especially with plastic pipe. The outside diameter of plastic pipe is significantly greater than copper pipe.
A beer on BREWDUDE? Now that would be cool!
If the hole that was drilled for the pipe is just big enough for the pipe to pass through then it's drilled to small. If you do have a cracked or corroded pipe (corrosion often occurs on the pipe if it passes through a hole that is to tight ((get your mind out of the gutter))).
If you end up replacing the piping that passes through the cabinet and sub floor, your going to have to enlarge thoes holes. Especially with plastic pipe. The outside diameter of plastic pipe is significantly greater than copper pipe.A beer on BREWDUDE? Now that would be cool!