Wittom, thanks a million. I would have to have the walls torn down and the crawl space completely flooded before I even entertained the thought of calling someone in that I had to pay for. Im going to try the snake again this weekend. If I cant get it, I wll try to get a few pictures to show you so you would be able to help me further. One thing, and I have to double check, but I dont remember seeing a TY anywhere near the sink. If I remember correctly the sink has your normal P trap under the kitchen counter and then goes straight thur the floor into the crawl space. AS soon as it gets low enough to clear the floor joists, it connects to a 90 degree elbow and from there makes a straight run, from one side of the house to the other ( approx a 30" run ) and then connects to the big main drain thats in the ground under the house. This pipe is about 4" diameter and all the drains from the sinks, and tub come here. Like I said, Ill mess with it this weekend and let you all know how I make out.

Thanks again for all the great advice and help. If this works, you all get a beer on my


BREW

 

Great...I really didnt need to hear that


BREW

 

What time do you get off work?

 

What I'm picturing is that the system has definatly been added on too. The cast vent may or may not be in use anymore. If you walk over to it and smell it you can tell. If it smells like sewer it's still in use.

Can't tell for sure from here, but likely when the system got added onto then the cast pipe was no longer the furthest point to vent so they added the pvc vent and may have not hooked the cast up to it. Is the main in the basement cast or pvc? That might be a clue too.


You might shoot a bottle rocket down it, that might clear it out.
Let me know how it goes and I might try it next time.

 

99% of the time there is a way to make things work without replacing pipes. Even if something has been done wrong.

If you have patience and time you can get this done.

Based on what your discribing you have under the sink it sounds like it's not properly vented. If the drain comes up through the floor then it probably connects to the sink through an S-trap, not a p-trap. An s-trap is subject to syphonage. Syphonage would create a "gurgle". If there is an s-trap, then there should be a drum trap instead.

Also, if the pipe goes through the floor, into the crawl space then makes a 90 there might be an issue. If it's a short pattern 90 then it's a potential blockage point. Our code prohibits the use of a short pattern 90 going from the vertical to the hoizontal. We have to use a "long sweep". We achieve this by using two 45s. In your situation there should be a wye and 45. This makes the long sweep because the branch of the wye comes off the run at a 45. The inlet of the wye would have an end clean out and the outlet would connect to the run going to the main soil stack (or building drain if it connects on the horizontal).

I'll keep checking in to see if I can help.

 

That sounds more like we are building a hot wheels track!
You know it took me 10 years to find out you could play with those orange plastic tracks. Til then I thought they were for spankings! I hated them, everyone wondered why I cringed when they bought them for me for Christmas. LOL
Brew I hope you followed that becasue I got lost some where around turn two.... I think. I hope the water can find it's way thru better than me!

I'm just kidding wittom, I think I can see what you are saying, but I wouldn't attempt it myself with out a drawing, but I am very visual. You can describe it all day long and I may not see it. Sketch it out on a napkin with simple rough schematic lines, and I'll catch right on.

 

Meg,

dont worry about it....women naturally tend to be more visual.



(sorry...but only a little)

 

Yea you're not.... biatch

Don't you have a sword to play with?

 

I feel the same way. I'm only trying to give a discription because I don't know how to draw a sketch on the internet. Can I get a napkin from an internet cafe to draw a sketch on?

Believe me, if I could draw a sketch instead of typing a novel I would. I'm not as experianced at typing as I am in plumbing.

 

Well, after a long saturday of in and out of my crawl space, up and down the ladder, snaking both vent pipes, flushing with water and snaking again, checking all the pipes for good flow and no clogs, pulling the vent in the front yard apart and digging up the ground under the house to make sure what I could see wasn't broke....I still have the gurggle!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did check to see what I have and don't have.....I do not have any vents in any of the drain pipes except the main sewer line under the house, where all my sinks and all drain to. The trap under my kitchen sink is an S-Trap, not a P-Trap as I stated earlier.

Everyone I talk to says its a vent issue and I since I don't have any vents in the line from the sink, that I need to put one in. On one hand I understand that I need a vent, but on the other hand....once again..why, after 30 years do I now all of a sudden need to put a vent in that line? If I do, am I masking a different problem thats going to show up in another few months or so??

My feelings at this point are to change the S-Trap under the kitchen sink to a P-Trap and add an Air Admittance Valve to it. Its the only thing I can think of at this point, short of pulling the 2 vent pipes out and opening up a whole new can of worms. So, can I change my S to a P and still have it exit straight down thru the floor? I cannot go out the back thru the wall. I was about to hand draw my system, scan it and post it here for you to see, but never got around to it. I'm too aggrevated with this whole thing and I dont feel good on top of it all.

Anymore ideas guys??


BREW

 

Call a plumber

 

Justin...Didnt you see that from my earlier post?

Right now the walls are still standing...not sure about water in the crawl..havent been down ther in a day..Hmm, guess I ened to check when I get home


BREW

 

How far was you able to snake the vents?
Are you sure that you reached into the main?
Are you sure that you are not just going insane and just think that you hear something?

Site unseen it's hard to tell at this point.
Didn't somebody say something about blocking all drains in the house, using a garden house wrapped with a rag on the sink.
I don't know form experince, but if it is vapor locked (for lack of better term) before the main (maybe in the trap), then some how able to suck air back in after water has left, this might push the air bubble on into the main. I really don't know.

A completely unfounded and untried expeiment that I might would do.
Somebody please speak up if it sounds stupid.

I might be aggrevated enough to plug the main outside the house. Then run all my faucets at wide bore and fill the system up. Let it sit for several minutes and let natural physics burb all the air out of the system.
maybe that would release a vapor lock.
I would think a loaf of bread inside one leg of a pair of pantyhose would plug the main. Then when your done you can pull it out with the other leg and never have to touch anything. The pantyhose will also act to hold the bread together so it doesnt get washed down where you can't get to it. I have used a piece of bread many times to stop one side of an open line that is draining while I'm trying to work. Keeps the work area dry.

 

I'm not sure why this problem is happening after it's been working for years.

I can give some advise on what to do next.

You could go to the Home Depot, but there is a good chance that they will be missing one of the parts.

You will need, and it can be in either the white PVC or black ABS (just make sure you get the right solvant):

1- 1 1/2 drum trap

2- 1 1/2 st. 90' (that is a fitting, or street 90', having a side that you fit the pipe into and a side that fits into another fitting. The drum trap in this case.)

1- 1 1/2 marvel adpt. (some places call it a trap adapter. One end goes on the pipe and the other has a slip joint nut that will slide over the tail piece that is attatched to the bottom of the sink and threads on to the adapter.)

1- 1 1/2 Copper by Plastic Mission coupling (Mission in the brand we use. I'm pretty sure that HD doesn't have them. I'm also assuming that your piping is 1 1/2 copper. What this is, is a transitional fitting. It consists of a neopreen coupling that is compressed to the pipes with a stainless steel band that has two "hose" clamps attached to it. It's really the best way to go. I guess you could use a Fernco coupling, but I wouldn't reccomend it.)

The drum trap comes in two sections. One piece has a threaded plug (I think HD charges you for a seperate part even though you can't use the trap without it.) which should be the lower half. You will glue in the st. 90' to face straight up (plug is facing down). It's pretty important that it's level. The other half of the drum trap will get the other st. 90' facing down to the pipe coming out of the floor. You may actually end up using a regular 90' for this depending how far the pipe coming out of the floor is from where the pipe attached to the sink is. You should have this 90' just in case.

Each of the 90's will get a piece of pipe. The one facing up, attached to the half of the trap will get the marvel adpter. The other half will connect to the pipe coming out of the floor. You will probably have to cut it. The straighter the better.

I know, I probably didn't need to type another novel. I'll bet you get the idea. It should work though.

 

Wittom..I think if I read that 2 or 3 more times I will have it pictured in my head. But while im doing that, what do you think of the Air Admittance valve? Think that would be an easy way to go??

Also, as I explained before I have an S-Trap, it goes straight thru the floor, once under the house makes a 90 and runs to the other side of the house, roughly 30' away. Just about at that 30' mark, I have a fitting in the pipe with a 2" (approx) cap in it. When I take that cap off, now leaving a huge 2" open hole in the pipe, I still get the gurggle in the sink. I would think, this would act as a vent? Is it just too far away from the sink??

Thanks again for all your help. I swear im gonna get this figured o ut without calling anyone in.


BREW