Thanks Newt,

Straight Shooting & Happy New Years to you,

 

Nice pistol Newt, I have an Ultra CDP II and love it.

 

OK, I'll try to exlain the simple concept of REASONABLE responsibility:

A few years ago, my home was broken into and I lost, among other things, several hand guns. I called the police and they came and did their thing. To date, none of my guns have been returned to me (sad too, because they included a Kimber .45 Gold Match in stainless, an Olympic Edition of the Glock 9mm with 4 hi-cap mags and a Browning Buckmark .22).

Now, if someone is raped, killed, robbed, etc. by some moron who happens to be in possession of one of my guns, I will not feel 1 bit responsible. Why ? Because the jack-@ss who stole my guns is responsible !! Plain and simple - no Democrat spin needed to understand the simple truth.

If you loan your vehicle to someone who is legal to drive, and they get in an accident, are you the person who caused the wreck ?

That is one of the many things that is wrong with this great country of ours today - no one wants to put the blame (and punishment) squarely where it belongs: on the people who commit the crimes or actually make the stupid decisions. Instead, some moronic lawyer will spin it into some type of flaw in the owner (with the intention of getting some monetary benefit out of the angle, regardless of the validity of the argument).

So, cehowardf150 left the guns with relatives for safekeeping - once they took possession of those guns, they were RESPONSIBLE for those guns and what happened to them...

Is that any clearer ??

BTW - I DID read all the posts - I am not sure what made you believe I didn't ??

PS. I too am a lifetime member of the NRA. The difference between us is that I was old enough to make an informed choice to be so - you, at 6 years old, were not...

 

How in the world do the cops know that his relatives had them?
Even after he found out that they were gone he never reported it to the cops. So who do they come to?

But if you want to continue to argue this point. Then first answer why you choose to report yours if you feel that it was perfectly acceptable for cehoward not to have reported his once he realized that they were not where they were suppose to be?

Since we have already covered all of this and everyone including cehoward aggrees that in retrospect he feels that he too should have reported his to the authorities when he realized they were gone. That is why I do not think you read anything or if you did you failed to comprehend for some reason.

I truely do not think you realize what it is that you are fighting for or about.
You do not seem that liberal, simply based on the fact that you reported your stolen arms.

But then again....
You do seem liberal here too.
As far as loaning your car:

I have no idea what liberal laws you have down there in Florida. We already know you guys can't count!
(LMAO, I'm just kidding, that was a low blow, I just couldn't help myself, everyone else is laughing, I apologize.)
Seriously though,
Here in Missouri if you loan your car to a legal driver and that person wrecks it. Then it is turned in to the insurance company of the owner of the vehicle. (AKA not the driver of the vehicle.) If that driver was not covered under the owners insurance policy, then the owner is responisable for financial obligations of damaged property as well as thier own vehicle and they get a ticket for not having proper insurance on thier vehicle.
(Example of not being covered: According to my insurance policy, you can not live with me and must be over 21 for me to loan you a vehicle and be covered by my policy.)

You can not even test drive a vehicle from the dealer unless you are 21 or occompanied by an adult due to dealers insurance. If you are over 18 then often the sales guy will ride with them so they don't have to go get daddy to test a vehicle they are going to pay for. You also have to be 21 to rent a car too for the same reason. When you test drive or rent then you are on thier policy becasue they own the vehicle. Your insurance only covers the vehicles listed on your policy nt every vehicle you get behind the wheel of. LOL It's not called drivers insurance. It's called auto insurance.

That does not mean that you can go borrow or test drive a vehicle and run someone over scott free. There are ramifications for the driver too. But the owner of the vehcile dosen't get off scott free either. The vehcile is your responibility.


Like most things in life, A one time action only completes your obligation for liberals. It may meet the required minimum, but I hate just meeting minimal expectaions of a cause that I belive in, I consider it lazy, pathetic, as well as 1/2 hearted to do so. That's why I continue to make further contributions to the cause to secure our heritage.
I would gladly fight til the death to keep the 2nd amendament alive and well. With arms in the hands of law abiding citizens.
Is there really a difference between me and you? Or are you simply satisfied that you paid your dues when you were old enough to make an informed decision?


cehowardf150,
I apologize to you for this guy rehashing things that we have already covered and I know you've expressed that you'd like to be put behind. I know we have covered all of this and that you, I as well as almost everyone else have come to an agreement and moved on. We are all now trying to help you fight to get your gun back and to help you keep your guns. But this guy is still in yesterday. I'm just trying to get him caught up with the rest of us. Maybe if we can get him caught up, then maybe he can jump on board with the rest of us. Maybe he will offer a beneficial contribution to this thread where it is now. To help us to help you, to get your gun back as well as help secure the guns you already have.

Again, good luck to you. Keep us informed, we are here for you.
If they start coming for your other guns there are plenty of people here with rural land, I'm sure we can find someplace to bury them til the coast is clear.

 

All is well here!!

And please, stop slinging that "L" word around!!

I have filed an appeal, and I am getting an attorney. Ritht now I am waiting for the official reply and a court date for my appeal.

 

It was the nicest one that I could come up with. :o

It'll porbably be a couple of weeks before you hear anything.
You'd think with the information age you should be able to just send an e-mail and get a reply that day. As much money that we pay in taxes and they collect on court costs, you'd think they could afford to set the courts system up a little more effeciently.

 

Well, I can see you are not quite sharp enough to understand the points I was trying to make - that's OK, being in MO and all... (J/K, a little pay back for the Florida comment)

Sorry it took a few days for me to respond to your original post - I was on vacation and did not spend much time on the forum. I hope all you perfect people can forgive me for merely responding to your post after some time had elapsed...

For the record, cehoward150 doesn't need to put my posts behind him - I was one of the few that supported him. Maybe YOU should read the posts in this thread...

I'll clarify my point and then I'll drop it - the whole car insurance thing was a nice liberal spin attempt by you, but it did nothing to answer the simple question I posed: If you loan "anything" to a person who is legally allowed to possess whatever it may be and they do something wrong / bad / accidental with it, are THEY responsible for their actions or is the owner of said object responsible?

Easy concept for someone with common sense and morals to understand - hence the reason liberals don't get it...

As far as why I reported my loss - it was because my property was STOLEN. His property was "lost" by family members - a bit of a difference I think. He said one relative had moved and apparently the guns were lost in the move - he finds out 4 years later when he comes home from overseas.

Anyway, I was one to say "I hope you get your guns back" and to call all the stupid liberal talk for what it is. So please don't make apologies to anyone for my posts - if an apology is necessary I'll be sure to offer one up...

As far as your liberal question - you probably ought to buy a dictionary and read the definition of liberal - you will see yourself in that more than you would see me in that.

cehowardf150 - Again, I hope you get your guns back. Good luck and keep us posted on the progress you make...

 

Don’t you dare retract my apology!
Who do you think you are?
What do you think gives you the right to retract another mans apology?
That is pretty low.
I was apologizing for myself for responding to you.
There is no way, shape or form that I would ever apologize for you. I could care less what people think of you. Why would I be concerned enough about you to apologize for you? I don't even know you. You could not afford to even pay me enough to apologize for you. I'm not your daddy; I would in no way assume nor imply that type of personal responsibility for you or your actions upon myself. That would be stupid on my part. Once again you actions rest totally on you, it's not up to me or anyone else to apologize for you. Why would you even assume that anyone would, could or should do that for you?


Any way, I'll try to be as simple as I can with this...

You loan your car.
Driver wrecks it.
Driver gets the moving violations and citations from authorities.
Then the claim is turned into the owner of the vehicle insurance, his insurance covers the driver.

If upon review of the claim the insurance company deems the driver uninsurable under the policy (which they will inevitably fight it and use any loop hole they can to keep from having to pay out), the owner of the vehicle is liable for the damages because he/she allowed an uninsured driver to operate his vehicle and it is up to the owner to maintain insurance on their vehicles. (It is not your friend’s nor your family’s responsibility to insure your vehicles. Nor to make sure that it is used with in your policy or to make sure that they are covered to borrow it by your policy. That is 100% up to you to do.)
(Note: It is common in the industry for policies to have a clause by the insurance company; stating that if vehicle is loaned, that vehicles coverage is dropped to liability.)
That means no one else would fix or replace your truck! Non of my friends or family could afford to replace any of my vehicles if this happened. So I haggled with the copyrighters and I pay a higher premium to make sure that my coverage remains the same if I choose to loan one of my vehicles out to anyone. I’ve had to do that on all of my policies that I’ve had over the years with all 3 insurance companies that I’ve had.

But if you want to continue to loan your vehicle out and believe that once they are behind the wheel you have no liabilities and that you will suffer no consequences if anything happens. Then go right ahead, I can't stop you.
BUt don't come crying to us acting like you're a victim if it bites you. Only thing you would be a victim of is naive ness. You couldn’t even claim ignorance because I just told you different. It would be 100% complete and udder stupidity.

So you don’t get offended
Ignorance: n. The condition of being unaware, or uninformed.
Stupidity: n. A poor ability to understand or to profit from experience.

I’m not saying that you are stupid; I’m just saying the choice would be stupid now that you have the information.
I can sympathize with ignorance, we all are! Atleast until we learn.
I have zero tolerance or compassion for stupidity.

I'm done, if you have any further questions, contact you insurance company or local law enforcement. Maybe they can explain it better than I can for you. Just remember that ignorance is no execuse for the law. Ignorant people just have to pay more, stupid people have to pay more often.

 

Wow. Did I strike a nerve there, Mr. Liberal ?? Maybe you should stop the blabbering and READ the posts, including your own:

Call me crazy, but that sure looked like you were apologizing for my post... I guess it was the "I apologize to you for this guy..." that threw me off.

For the record, I didn't retract your apology - I simply asked that you allow me to apologize for myself, if I needed to. Again, READ the post (and try to understand it) before you post a silly diatribe like the one above.

BTW - The long dissertation above was ridiculous and childish, to say the least...

Let me see if I can break this down into 1st grade terms (so you might understand it):

I am not questioning the insurance applicability. You went into a long explanation regarding your special insurance so you can loan your vehicles - did you ever stop to think that you are not the only person who knows about that ? You automatically assumed I was ignorant of that possibility. However, if you READ the post and understand the intent of my question, you would realize that the example I selected was not intended to be an example for the legal ramifications of the insurance laws. It was about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.

Because moronic liberals have allowed it to happen, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY has been mostly eradicated in the USA. Therefore you get responses like yours. The question was never how the laws work - it was one of basic ethics, morals, etc. of the situation. I even edited it for you in my earlier response, to take the focus off the insurance laws and to put it back on the intended subject matter. In true liberal-spin fashion, you continued on with the insurance angle. Let's try again:

If I loan ANYTHING to a person who is legally allowed to possess said object, and they do something wrong, bad, dangerous, etc. with said object; is the person using the object responsible for their actions, or should I be held responsible because I lent them the object ?

Will you ever get off your soapbox and provide an answer to this question ?

Not the stupid legal mumbo-jumbo answer - just the basic, common sense answer that would have been forthcoming from anyone with a lick of sense 25 or more years ago...

THE PERSON WHO OPERATES / USES / ETC. THE OBJECT IS THE PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS WHILE USING THE OBJECT!!!

You know, kind of like the morons who want to sue Ruger, Sig, etc. for making guns because some jack-@ss uses them illegally. It is EXACTLY the same thing, if you don't put your liberal spin on the base question.

As far as your insinuation as to my lack of intelligence or understanding, I would be happy to compare resumes, work experience, awarded patents, educational degrees, certifications, etc. with you any time...

OK, I'm done with this. I just find it VERY hypocritical that you felt it was OK for you to post your thoughts / feelings / etc. regarding cehowardf150's post, but as soon as I posted my feelings about YOUR post, I get attacked ??

cehowardf150 - Sorry this exchange happened in your thread, but you are in a holding pattern (so to speak) right now anyway, right ?

Again, I hope you get your guns back. Good luck !!

 

Agreed "No soap box" becasue it's ALL been explained by me and numerous others in many many ways... So would be a complete and total waste of my time to further converse with you if you continue to play the poor innocent victim.

But I can't help my self you are so encouragable.

No parables, examples or any other tools you call soap box.
sometimes yes
sometimes no
sometimes both
Most common it will be both, but not always.

The answer always depends on numerous things.
With the examples given thus far they have all been explained by me and numerous others using parables, examples and other tools that you call "soap boxes".

OK... then you should easily see why the parable was put there for. It wasn't a reason or an excuse. Just trying to convey a concept in an intellegent manner..
Hmmm, what do you know...... it didn't work.

I can kind of see when taken out of context of the rest of the thread and seen throu some type of perverted self centered eyes, how that could be intrepreted as apologizing for you.

I apologize to B-Man from me (PSS-Mag) if it made you feel that way.
I can assure you that it most definatly was not intended to imply that in any manner. I could care less how anyone feels about you or anyone else in this world out side of my family. I don't apologize for anyone, never have, never will. Because I just don't care it is not any concern of mine.

Yes you did!
Why do you think that is?

BTW: My proper party is American, that includes Republican, Liberal and Democratic points of view so don't leave out the other two parties when addressing me by a political party, that's rather rude. Just becasue you dont recognize them it doesn't mean the other two don't exist.
So it's Mr. RepublicanLiberalDemocratic to you or if you wish Mr. American for short.

My only reply to the rest....
Bwahahahaha
Poor baby, does your mangina hurt?
Bwahahahahaha

Stop your bellyaching and go get a band aid.

Extreme leftist are just as dangerous to this country as extreme rightist.They both claim that they have moral grounds yet neither stand with out leaning on the other. I am neither I choose to stand on my own two feet. Which means both are right and both are wrong.

 

Here is an update. I was patiently waiting for the appeal hearing date, and was informed by my lawyer to contact him when I got the date. Time went by and still no date. In the first week in Feb, I went to the court house where I filed the appeal, and found out that the court date had gone by. It was on Jan 27!! I quickly informed them that I didn't recieved any notice!!

Fast forward 2 weeks. The court said they would give me another court date, and the police department said they would hold on to the gun until I get a new hearing date. The police seemed to have sympathy for my cause.

I got the new hearing date, and it is set for the 2nd week in March. I informed my lawyer and he told me to bend over, cause he not going to use any grease when it comes to his fee.

The lawyer told me he will do some research and get back to me..

 

oh no, not this thread again! I thought it finally died off

 

Major suckage, man. I'm pullin' for ya' on principle alone.

-Joe

 

Wow. Your an idiot, he's given perfectly good reasons for what happened but you still claim that he dosent deserve to own a gun, **** happens and sometimes you cant control it, get off your high ****** horse.

Hope you get your guns back.