And there are people still refusing to evacuate. Saw a guy on the news in an air boat pleading with a woman for her to evacuate herself and her kids. Standing in knee deep water on her front doorstep. Don't know if she finally gave in, but it is tough to make people do what they don't want to do. If the goverment had forced everyone to evacuate and nothing came of the storm, we would now be hearing about the abusive government who made them leave when it wasn't necessary.

 

That might sound good to the uninitiated.....but it still means diddley squat.

It WAS insensitive to call people stupid who were in a difficult situation in a foreign country, and were doing the best they could under an impossible situation.

I repeat...I hope you never find yourself in similar circumstances, because none of us can predict how we will behave or react in times of stress and in unfamiliar situations.

You and I are sitting at home in comfort, with plenty to eat and drink and none of us can have the remotest idea what it must have been like to be there.

This forum seems to be packed with what we call "Barrack Room lawers" who like to pontificate and voice their opinions, and so often it is blatantly apparent they have no life experience and no overall world view.

 

Lord Lenny is getting militant lately.

The truth about looting....aye ya ya....

Soon as you explain why some piece of human feces needs 20 pairs of nikes and a 30" flat screen from Walmart I might listen.

You've gotten to insulting people and their intelligence. Calling down EA for his "brown nosing" of Americans on this board.

There are some real tragedies in NO...the gov't failed in many aspects. People failed in many aspects. There is no one place to lay blame.

Maybe you need to take a vacation or something cause you are a bit too high strung...

Whatever you decide to do, you would be best served to not post the insulting crap you've done lately...its getting old...and fast.

 

I never used the expression "Brown Nosing"., and if that's how you interpreted my phraseology it says more about you than me.

I'm just speaking plainly...not even particularly bluntly....
I'm not highly strung, but I do get irritated by the extreme comments that I see posted often by people with no grasp of the English Language or spelling.
And with no real understanding of situations that are extant.

It is not insulting C***.
That is itself insulting because of your poor vocabulary you resort to the same tired old cliches and slanguage that is part of your culture now....
(Hence my post about the overused word ...Ouch...I can hardly bring myself to say it.....AWES*** Ah....couldn't do it.)

If you take it as insulting then once again it says more about you and an inability to comprehend, digest and respond to reasonable strong discussion.

You are quick enough to dish out the insults and strong language when it suits....but don't seem to want to take it.

 

From your earlier posts...you didnt use that exact phrase...here is yours..

"I'm really surprised at you English Adam....you trying to get Brownie Points for your stays in America ??!"

A. I don't insult people.
B. I would venture to say my vocabulary is extensive enough to grasp your posts...my education doesn't need defending. I do however question your constant bashing as to the intellectual prowess of your fellow members.
C. We do have a large crowd of younger posters. "Awesome" and "dude" may be their choice of language. They may not have much experience to pull on but they are expressing their feelings. Quit questioning their powers of comprehension as you like put it. It makes your arguements look small both intellectually and socially.

D. Relax on the grammer and spelling. People may not be skilled in it or they may just not feel like proofing a post for a messageboard.

 

Anyhow before this discussion gets out of order and too heated for it's own good I'm retiring from it......it simply started as as an effort to explain that not all looters were deserving of the treatment some of you wanted to dish out.

It seems to have strayed !

No hard feelings anywhere....no harm in a good strong debate.

All have a on me. (And yes I could send the funds!)

In fact, before any of you suggest I'm wimping out, the reason I'm retiring from this particular discussion is that I have to get the cat into it's lodgings for the next few weeks while I go get on a plane bound for.....you guessed it....to see what I can do to help.

Don't believe me ?
Keep a check on the KR board.

 

Back at ya buddy...

No hard feelings here...I love the debates too.

 

It’s not about sounding good but rather stating a simple fact. The truth is the truth and sometimes the truth is not “sensitive” because if it were it would no longer be the truth, or the absolute truth.

How is it insensitive to call someone stupid for being stupid? Perhaps it would have been more “sensitive” to call them naďve? Naďve sounds better but it still means the same thing (i.e. stupid, moron, etc)

Basically your stepping into the territory of being “politically correct” and I will never be political correct because that is nothing more then censorship and a forum of mind control.

You do have a right to your opinion even if it is extreme and dishonest. The honest truth is those people (other then young children and those with physical limitations), especially the visitors from Britain, had every opportunity to leave and they did not. Therefore they are completely responsible for their actions and plight. While that may not sound nice, or sound sensitive, or sound political correct it is the “honest” truth. Sometimes you just can’t help stupid people, Lord knows there are many stupid Americans and no matter how much money gets pumped into our federal government we will still have the same amount of stupid people…

 

I guess it's only fair that we hear a differnt opinion on the subject. You may consider it garbage, but for many others a lifetime of living in this country, seeing the people who work their a$$ off to make a good life for themselves, next to thoes who make ecuses on why they must ride on the backs of the taxpayers, can effect ones opinion.

I don't think there is anyone here that doesn't agree that a tragic event has happened on our gulf coast. I don't think that anyone here would wish this on anyone else. I don't think that anyone here thinks that people have to suffer. I think that there are a lot of people here that are appauled by what they have seen on the TV. The devestation. The heart ache. The demands, the blame, the shooting, the raping, the crime, and let's not forget the looting.

I don't know about where you live but here where I live I see people living off my tax dollars. They are clearly capable of working but don't because it's easier not to. They know that I and people like me will go to work to pay taxes so that they can have some things for nothing. Not all poor people are of this mentality, and for thoes who are not capable of supporting themselves, that is with a legitimate reason, I feel good that our taxes make thier life a little better. If I had to guess how many people who are being assisted by the tax payers legitimately I would say that the number would be less that 50%. If that were true it would mean that there were a whole lot of people taking advantage of the tax payers, people like me.

So I turn on the TV to see how things are going in the effected area of the gulf coast. I see the devastation. I see the loss. I see that so many peoples hopes, dreams and hard work have been swept away by this natural disaster. I also see people who are complaining that they aren't being helped. I see people blaming everyone but themselves for the situation they are in.

I see this and it makes me think of the people in the city that I live. It makes me think this because it's what the people here, the ones riding on the backs of the tax payers, do when something is taken away from them. When entitlements are removed. When assistance is cut. When they are forced to work a bit for the hand out they are recieving. I don't see a direct paralell but why is it that people who seem to use a helping hand to live their entire life make demands of the government, and more directly of the tax payers?

Of corse they need to be saved. I think if it were me down there the whole ordeal would be a humbling experiance and I would be thanking my luck stars that I'm still alive. I would want to get out but I think I would be able to understand the severity of the situation. Why does the media continue to show people who don't appear to have been humbled at all? Why is it that once again they demand that the tax payers submit so that they can once again get a free ride. Do they deserve a free ride this time? Yes, I believe they do. I just have a problem with the blame and the demands.

What you call our garbage is a lifetime of influence. A majority of opinions are not formed by ignorance, rather by experiance. So in the future just think before you condem the opinions of people who have lived in this country and have had to put up with so many people riding on their backs. We get tired of working hard so that someone else can get a free ride. We know that in a capitalist society there will be some that will need assistance and most don't have a problem with their tax dollars helping some. The number is way to large though. There doesn't need to be so many poor. It's not the governments responsability to lift these people up, they need to do for themselves. We know that in a natural disaster like the one this country has endured it is necessary to help everyone. We don't have to like the demans being placed on us from people who have been draining us for years already.

 

Looks like Lenny is gone but if you are reading this, I don't need the Brownie points.
I have no need to suck up to anybody and my opinion is what it is.
The day I take advice from some Gin soaked idiot in a consulate will be the day I throw the towel in. I have been in plenty of situations and survived just fine.
I still maintain what I said about the Embassies. They are there to help you if you get robbed of your passport or need some diplomatic assistance.
They do not track your movements or mount SAS type rescue missions.
Are you honestly trying to say that if you had heard the Mayor of a major city call for it's evacuation and the weather channel forcasting 145mph winds, you would choose to stay in a Holiday Inn right in the middle because some bureaucrat thought it was the best plan? Come on Lenny, would you have stayed?
The majority of those people were on holiday there and CHOSE to stay.

 

Yes I did have a quick look back...I'm busy packing to get over there.

Isn't "Gin Soaked Idiot in a consulate" a bit of a stereotypical view which is perhaps more representative of a bygone age.

I actually agree with you on some points....
I think if I had been there I would have moved heaven and earth to get out of that city.
BUT I got caught in Hurricane Allen in...what was it...1980 ?
Also the hurricane that hit England in 86...very moderate by the standard of recent US hurricanes still took our roof off and left me a bit of a nervous wreck !
That's why I know what I would have done...and what YOU might have done.

But I was trying to think of myself in the position of those youngsters...some just 18 years old...some had diverted to Nawlins thinking they were avoiding a hurricane in Florida where they HAD been headed.

They must have stayed in Nawlins for the good reasons I tried to state on their behalf...the ones they were quoting themselves on Sky.

I expect they now wish they HAD got out....but the fact is for whatever reason they didn't ... and they suffered for it.
We might think they were stupid...they might have BEEN stupid, but like I say everything is easy to say in retrospect.

I still don't think some of you have shown real understanding of the situation as it was for them on the ground....but there we go.

Anyway I really am closing now because I'm off to see for myself.

TTFN

 

I see some enlightened commentary here, and I see a lot of grandstanding, a lot of "wouldda, couldda, shouldda", and a lot of people who just think they're right and anyone who disagrees is wrong...

I think the digital age has reduced many of our capacity to think in terms that are not binary; or at least not to be able to comprehend anything that isn't binary. There's a lot of binary thinking here, lumping ones thinking patterns or ideals into "liberal" or "conservative". I read that ***** on this board so much, I could just.....*****.

-----------------------------------------
I said before, and will say again- if you broke into a store and stole food & water, or anything you could eat~ then I say congratu-focking-lations on thinking. If you sat there and drank contaminated water, or didn't eat when there was a store down the block- because you didn't want to steal- then you are the idiot. That's the truth about looting. Now, if you stole anything you couldn't consume- then you need your @$$ kicked, or shot.

I met a woman today who evacuated to Dallas from Katrina. She said she works somewhere right beside the mini dome (Next to the Superdome) that had just received hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of bananas, pears, oranges, apples, etc.. One block from the superdome. She said they sent word to the people to kick the doors in and take it to eat; otherwise it would go bad... They didn't do it; it seems no one went to see. So, all that food is in there rotting, meanwhile thousands sat hungry for days, 1-2 blocks away from food...

Another truth is, yes- they had warning; but again I will reiterate- New Orleans is either hit by, or grazed by 1-2 hurricanes a year. Nothing like this has ever happened before; few thought the result would be so catastrophic. I watched Fox News Sunday today, and it was said that as late as Sunday evening, they had not given the word for the mandatory evacuation of the city. They said President Bush, the Governor, and Mayor of N.O. and others spoke, and after some urging, the mayor (or governor) issued the order for the mandatory evacuation of the city... With 1.3 million people- and three "sensible" exits out of that city; how easy does anyone think it was to get that many people on the roads, and out of the city?

If you know anything about hurricanes, you know they are UNPREDICTABLE. As I watched on Monday, what did Katrina do? She turned as she approached land- the eye missing it's predicted target (New Orleans) by 25 miles. Our weather folks here said New Orleans seemed like it would be "sparred the brunt" of Katrina's force... It seems that even though they were, in most cases they were not.

How many times has a Hurricane's predicted landfall location 4-5 days out, actually been accurate? Probably around 0%.

I agree- some things were intolerable (Stealing TV's, DVD. CD's, raping, shooting, arson, beatings, etc..), but as you all know the media will focus on the things that can be sensationalized. I can guarantee that the large majority of those trapped- were not raping, killing, shooting or any of that.

It's sad that you guys & gals, with whom I've debated often can show such wide-ranging thought patterns on some topics- like why a Ford is better than a Chevy or Dodge; how profits move to Japan, and t!tties and @$$; yet when it comes to how we as a nation should respond to the destruction of a major city- we are reduced to binary thinking. (Yes, No; Destroy, Rebuild; Save them; It's their own fault). I am simply amazed at how some of you guys think... Well, I guess I'm "liberal" huh???

Well, for those denouncing the Louisiana residents that stayed; let me remind you of this:

"California will one day break off and fall into the pacific ocean if an earthquake of strong enough magnitude strikes the San Andreas fault line"

"If there is another major terrorist attack (Nuclear/Biological) upon the United States, it will likely take place in New York again"

YOU'VE BEEN WARNED... IF YOU DON"T LEAVE IMMEDIATELY- WELL, YOU MUST BE STUPID...

Damn; I didn't mean to write this much.....

 

Amen

 

as with anything, less than 5% of those still there are the POS that are stealing tv's. 95% of the people are just tying to survive.

i can't help but think that if i was going to tuff it out, i would buy some water and canned goods, some batterys, a radio and flash lights. i think i could make it 5 days without stealing if i had 4 or 5 hours of notice that something was coming. empty water jugs and baggies for the garbage and waste. head to the 2nd or 3rd floor. i would also make sure i had a box of shells for the shoot gun. i would also phone family members to tell them my plans.

I will do what ever i have to do, to provide for my family starting with planning on how to take care of them.

 

That's why I left in 1993. Now tell me I am not prepared...