I met with 2 different counselors Friday morning back to back. Don't know why for sure. I think the 1st one is new and the 2nd is just doing a follow up. They seemed to be really concerned that I have plans to keep me busy this weekend. Asked me to sign a contract saying I wouldn't hurt anyone or do anything to myself. Probably just to cover their butts.

I arranged a pre-meeting at 3:00 with the wife before our meeting with her lawyer at 3:30. I wanted to present my proposal to her before we got into the lawyer's office. She wants about $800 a month until I retire from the military, at which time she will get about $800 a month (50% of my retirement). I spoke with a paralegal at an attorneys office and she said "everyone" asks for alimony and rarely does anyone get anything.

We went in to the meeting and of course he talked to her about 15 minutes before he let me in. My wife and I agreed on how we were going to split everything up, except the alimony. I told the lawyer I didn't think she was entitled to any money. I agreed to pay the majority of her bills in Nov and some in Dec. After that she's on her own. He said she not entitled to alimony per se, but she is entitled to money to "maintain her current lifestyle". I'm thinking WTF, she leaves me and she get's to maintain her current lifestyle? Before the meeting I had went back and added up what she made the previous 6 months. In 3 of the 6 previous months she "grossed" more than I did. Overall, I made more in the 6 months than she did. I brought this up and their like "that doesn't count the deduction of supplies and such".
Based on the previous info, could someone who is knowledgeable please make me smart on these:
1. Is she entitled money to "maintain her current lifestyle"?
2. Does it matter that her gross is more than mine before she deducts catering supplies?
3. At what point should I just give in and quit fighting?

I really want an uncontested divorce, because if it gets messy it will cost us both a lot of money. I'm really confused about how much I should help her and at what time I should tell her to get bent. I still love her so much and am really have a diffcult time with the pain, but like someone said earlier, I have to protect myself and have some dignity when this is all over.

I did tell them that I will not sign anything (except the petition) until it's reviewed by another attorney. I think they understood I'm serious about this.

Thanks to all for letting me cry on your shoulder, it really does mean a lot.

Being lonely is big hurdle right now, anyone want to send their girlfriend/wife over for awhile to help me with that? Just kidding, trying to keep my sense of humor.

 

First, this is only my opinion and advice I am NOT a lawyer so please read my advice with that in mind.

Second, you stated before that all your children are grown up and out of the house, is this correct?

If your children are grown and out of the house the next question is did your wife leave you? I know you said she did so is there any legal reason she may have had to do so? In other words get ready for accusations of mental and/or physical abuse.

For question #1
If she can prove, NOT that you did, but can prove by whining and crap like that in court, it could give her a legal reason to have left you and then “maybe” entitle her to alimony.

If she just left on her own I really can not see how she would ever be entitled to alimony since it was HER choice to leave.

You REALLY, REALLY have to have your lawyer pound that one into the judge’s head.

For question #2
Not sure on that, I know for child support the courts don’t give a crap about anything BUT gross. That is what everything for child support is based off, GROSS and nothing else.

I think the way alimony is suppose to work is for the husband that leaves the wife who never had a job, or has a low paying job so she could maintain the home and raise the kids.

Alimony was a way to insure she did not get screwed over by making the life choice of caring for the children and maintaining the home.

Now, if your wife is making equal to you or more then you I can NOT for the life of me see how any judge would award her any alimony. If she left just to leave with no other reasons then your lawyer seems to have his head up his @ss.

For question #3
This is a tough one. I fought like a sumbitch and got rid of my lawyer half way through it. I figured I could lose just as easy without him as I could with him with one less bill to pay.

I learned a very valuable lesson about family court and divorce. In those court rooms very, very little has to do with law but rather perceptions. It is a room where actors meet and put on performances. The best actors get what they want, while those who can’t act have to give up what the morons on the bench tell them to give up.

I couldn’t believe how stupid judges in family court are. I guess it should have been a hint that this was no court I had ever heard of. For one thing NO ONE takes an oath to tell the truth.

I know, maybe that sounds goofy, but I had always thought in court you had to tell the truth, or at least swear to an oath to tell the truth.

Nope, not in family court because that takes the fun out of it.

Anyway, another lesson I learned is MOST family court lawyers, like divorce lawyers are some real scumbags of their trade. They will drag out a divorce as long as possible. Do NOT let your lawyer drag this out.

If he can’t figure out in a weeks time what the damn laws are where you’re at so he can tell you yes or no about the alimony go shopping for another lawyer. Remember this is supposed to be his/her profession so he/she should have been able to ask you a few simple questions and answered you about alimony within 10 – 20 minutes. If he/she took longer then that it was ONLY FOR THE MONEY…

GET AS MUCH INFORMATION AS YOU CAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before you go to court, this is mean, but trust me on this because you could be giving up some SERIOUS cash for the rest of your life if you don’t do this right.

Get as much information about your wife as possible, from friends, family or where ever, anything that relates to why she left, was it due to an affair, that she just wanted to move on, what ever the reason GET IT and get as many people that are willing to go to court and tell the judge that.

If you go to court do NOT, DO NOT let your guard down with the assumptions of “Things might work out” because if you do YOU LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!

You already have one BIG strike against you when you enter the courtroom and that is you’re a male.

Therefore do NOT act pissed off, do NOT in any way shape or form give an impression of being pissed off. Go into court with the biggest broken heart you have ever had. Can you cry easy? If not learn…

If she is able to turn the tear ducts on in a millisecond and sob like a baby it is pretty much all over. As I said, for the most part, the family court room is where they hand out best picture awards, those who can give the best performance WIN…


I am not trying to depress you but prepare you. If your current lawyer is not ready to go in and slaughter her with the current laws FIRE him/her and move on. It don’t really matter what you have to say in court because the judge will look at you and prejudge you. This is what the judge will be thinking when your are speaking ”I don’t believe one got damn word you say”.

That’s why you HAVE TO HAVE information, as much as possible and as many people as possible to testify in your behalf. They may not have to go to court IF you have a decent lawyer because he/she will get with her lawyer and tell him/her ”I have 15 people ready to testify in court that your client is a lying *itch”.

It’s really up to you, if you go in to court trying to be a good guy, the nice guy, you will have you *** handed to you like never before.

If you can’t come to an agreement before having to go to court then you have to go to court to absolutely and completely destroy her credibility. If you’re not able to do that for what ever reason then the answer to your questions:

NOW, give up the fight now and make an agreement…

 

Sport, I realize your not a lawyer, but I appreciate your answer very much. I think I'm posting on here not so much for legal advice, just people's past experiences and such. I'm fighting a huge battle with myself right now about what I should do. I really, really want to do the right thing for her and at the same time I'm trying to protect myself.

Now to answer your questions:
All my kids are grown and out of the house.

Yes, she left me. She says we have grown apart and she isn't "in love with me anymore" (boy that hurts). There is no legal reason that I know of why she would leave. I have never abused her physically or mentally. I have been faithful and have always given her what she wanted.

I haven't officially seen a lawyer yet because she hasn't officially told me what she wants yet. Her and her lawyer seem to be confused about this issue. They have both mentioned support until I retire and support until the divorce is done. Maybe they want both, but they don't seem to be able to connect the 2. She stopped by today so we could discuss these issues and she has completed changed her tune. Now she wants to buy me out of our house by giving me half the equity and in exchange she keeps a couple high dollar items I was taking. This would also mean no support at all until I retire and she gets her 50%. There are a lot of issues with this plan (house appraisal, her quailifying), but it seems to make us both in agreement on what we do.

On the positive side I'm starting to feel better and my moments are getting farther apart. I'm starting to feel sorry for my kids because even though they don't live at home, they are still stuck in the middle.

 

Not sure about the house deal and her buying you out. If you decide to go that route I would insure your name is completely clear of the house so that if in the future something happens, she defaults on the loan and/or missed payments you are not legally liable for making those payments up and/or having your credit ruined due to a foreclosure.

That is something you would have to discuss with a lawyer. I can tell you that her lawyer is going to try and get everything he possibly can for her regardless if she is legally entitled to it or not. The judge won’t really care one way or the other because if you both come into court with an agreement the judge will 9 times out of 10 sign off on it and you will never know if you truly got a fair and equitable deal out of it without your own lawyer to look it over. The judge will be of no assistance to you whatsoever, they will not tell you if you might be getting screwed or not because most judges in family court are just puppets sitting there looking important and act completely stupid when it comes to the laws.

My personal experience is that judges look down on those who show up in court with no lawyer, it’s like you screwed one of their buddies out of some serious cash. I know that sounds harsh but I learned that the hard way and rather then stressing over it and being pissed off I try to use that experience to help others.

I was kind of in a catch 22 with my divorce when my ex-wife left and moved in with a boyfriend who was loaded with cash. Our daughter was 9 years old at the time and quite the daddy’s girl. Nonetheless her mother used her in any way possible to get everything and anything she could. I guess my ex knew me well because she knew my daughter was and is the most important thing to me in the world.

That said, I of my own choice, sacrificed myself in order to keep things as good as possible for my daughter. I could have went in and made my ex look like a totally unfit mother and sleazy women she was but that would have started WWIII and my daughter would have took all the major blows.

I don’t bring any of this up for pity because I believe I made all the right decisions for the time and I now have custody of my daughter and she has done very well in school throughout all this and is a great kid today. Her mother is a total mess and she, on her own, sees what her mother has done and it has basically ruined any real relationship she ever had with her mother. To put it into perspective her mother choices material and money over her daughter, when her mom has some free time, usually once a month or every few months she comes around to see her daughter who is 15 years old now.

Anyway back on topic since your situation is different. You don’t have young children to worry about. I know you have grown kids and nobody likes to put them in the middle but you must do what is right for you and your future.

If you do come to some kind of agreement with your wife and not have to go to court to fight it out at the very least pay to have a lawyer go over any agreement you might make BEFORE you sign it. At least know your options and go from there.

Look at the agreement as a deal on the car lot. If it is truly a good deal, agreement then they won’t have any problem with you having someone look it over before you sign it.

Her lawyer, if he is ethical which chances are he is NOT because very few divorce lawyers are ethical, should tell you, or recommend to you to have a lawyer look it over and he can NOT look it over or give you any advice on what to do because it is NOT in his best interest to represent both of you.

Just remember her lawyer is going to do everything he possible can to get everything possible for your wife, it DON’T matter if she is legally entitled to it or not, if he can get it and have you sign off on it he WILL and the judge will NOT do anything about it except ask if you agree with it. The judge will NOT point out anything she is NOT legally entitled to…

 

The biggest thing you should remember. She may be entitled to half of all your stuff, money etc... but you are entitled half of all her stuff as well. Here in California they use Gross wages to determine any settlements. It keeps things simple. So I would almost bet that no alimony will be paid because she owns a business.

Again here in California she would be entitled half your retirement valued on todays value. Of course you can fight that.

Remember, she dumped you. Take her for all she's worth, don't be Mr. Nice Guy or her attorney will flatten you. '01 has some good advice, show hurt emotions but don't appear wimpy.

This will be a very hostile environment when it goes to court, so be prepared. I know you probably want to be as amicable as possible but she is going to try to take everything you have worked hard for all these years.

She is not your friend any longer. She made that point by filing divorce.

It's hard to realize that right now but think what you would say to your best friend if he were in your shoes. Then follow that advice.

Good Luck, I hope everything turns out OK. Your hurt and bitter feelings will fade with time.

 

Sport, you had a rough situation there. Glad you have custody of your daughter and everything is working for you. It's good to hear that the system eventually worked for you.

I told her and her attorney at the meeting that even if we come to an agreement, I wouldn't sign anything until I have a lawyer look it over.

I'm definitly going to make sure I have no connections to the house. She will have to refinance (I guess) to have it put in her name and give me my half of the equity.

canyonslicker, good point on I'm entitled to half her stuff. I'm taking that to mean that even though her business is in her name only, half of it is mine. That's a good question for my lawyer.

Your statement "She is not your friend any longer. She made that point by filing divorce." is right on the money and this is one of things I'm trying to deal with right now.

Now it appears with all this that the divorce won't be final until Dec or maybe even Jan. Hard to say, right now I just want it over, but everyone here is helping me keep my head straight.

I can't thank everyone here enough for the moral support and the great ideas you have given on how to cope. Thanks all!

 

Canyonslicker brought up an excellent point about your wife having her own business…

You could use that possibly to get out of having to share half your retirement with her. If you play hardball you might be able to make something work in your favor. You could tell her that she can keep 100% ownership in her business if she agrees to not take any of your retirement money.

Another point to consider is if her gross income is greater then yours then you may be entitled to alimony from her as well as half her retirement. She left you so I would question are you not entitled to maintain your life style prior to her abandoning you. She left and that should be considered abandoning which depending on your state laws may mean she is not entitled to anything. I am not so sure on how that works it might be after a predetermined amount of time and then its considered abandoning where she wouldn’t be entitled to anything.

Nonetheless, if she has a higher gross income then you, even if by $1 I would tell her lawyer you might just be seeking alimony from HER and half her retirement.

I would think the best deal to try and make is NO alimony for her, NO retirement money from you to her, she buys you out of the house and she gets to keep and maintain her business of which you would seek no legal interest in the future.

If she has her own business then she is able to take care of herself, now and in retirement because she will have her own retirement money.

I would strongly fight having to share any of your retirement money with her. How much equality is built up in your home? If not equal to say half of what your retirement money would be then you could always keep that as a place card and let her keep the house IF you get to keep all of your retirement.

Still something to go over with a lawyer but just something to think about in the mean time. There is no time limit on when you have to get divorced you take as much time as you need to INSURE you don’t get screwed over…

We are here for you, to try and help, to give some ideas and just to lean on. You do what you feel is right and TAKE YOUR TIME, do NOT be rushed into something because it will most likely affect you for the rest of your life…

 

Have you consulted with your own lawyer yet? I would not utter another word to her or her lawyer without representation of some kind. You've tried to no avail. Find out your rights in the state that your are residing, laws vary so much throughout the country. SHE picked out the lawyer, and as mentioned above, he's working for HER best interests. PROTECT YOURSELF!

How about a base legal officer? They can't represent you but they can offer you advice on the laws and what you're liable for in support. If I'm correct, the main thing the military would be concerned about while you were separated is that you provided some support - they won't tell you how much though - basically a good rule of thumb is the difference between single rate and married rate BAQ until the divorce is final. They can advise you also as to what you'll owe her of your retirement.

Another key thing. If you haven't already, document, document, document all of your injuries and illnesses while in the military! Go back for followups. If you have ANY injuries, you are possibly entitled to some type of VA compensation. I'm sure you are familiar with it, but once you retire and file for disability compensation - if they find you anything less than 50% disabled - that $$$ amount will be subtracted from your retirement check and issued in the form of a disability check from the VA. I'm pretty sure that your disability check is not touchable, you don't have to split that with her. Again, consult the legal office.

My brother just recently divorced, it was tough on him. His wife of 20 years just shut down on him. I talk with him every day now, before I was lucky if it was a handful of times each year. He used the family network to get over it. He's still affected by it some, but as said above, time heals and he's getting much better. It was tough leaving his wife, house and kids. I think he believed that she would ask him back which made things tougher on him. He's past that now. He's getting happier each day.

My story? My wife and I had agreed on a separation. Two days later Desert Shield/Storm kicked off, I asked her to stay until I got back. Heck, I was paying for the house and everything, her life wouldn't be interrupted. She said no, she had to go. She had agreed to give me custoday of my two year old son, he stayed off and on with her and my family the eight months I was gone. We had separated once before and it was real tough. It was certainly tough handling while being deployed but maybe easier than if I was there. I filed for divorce about a month after I got back. She couldn't believe I did it. I figured f@ck her, she wasn't there to support me at one of the biggest times I needed support, there'd be no way I'd ever go back. I did most of my healing while gone, and started out fresh when I got back. We've talked friendly on and off over the years, I got past the anger.

One last note. IMO, screw the $800 and her bills. She left you, you were there for her. Don't put yourself in a financial bind to make things easier on her. She doesn't want to work things out, let her deal with it. You've supported her all these years. Her business didn't get off the ground without your support. She's made a decision, it's time to take care of yourself...

 

Whoever said 'it is better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all' is a complete friggin moron who was never really in love.

I recently (well its been a year now) lost the girl of my dreams and her son. I tried to get back at her and it backfired tremendously...turns out she was coming back to me. But I blew it. So my advice DON"T DO ANYTHING STUPID LIKE TRYING TO HURT HER!!!!!

Keep yourself busy and don't expect to replace her anytime soon, it won't happen. But if you are lucky, you might just find something else. Everything happens for a reason.

 

Man, this is not a funny thread, but that line 01 XLT Sport had in there about taking an oath to tell teh truth takes all the "fun" out of family court, had me laughing out loud at work.

Have you ever laughed so hard that you got light-headed?

Wooooooooo! That was funny.

The simple-minded are so easily amused. (Me)

 

I am glad I could make someone laugh with my story, man was it a B*TCH back then. I can laugh about it now, but back then I was seriously thinking about smuggling an onion into court to get my eyes to tear up or something…

I remember my “first” time being warned by the judge to keep my mouth shut. Goes something like this:

My Lawyer – Your honor she (my ex) moved right out of the defendants house and right into the bedroom of Mr. ******. She has abandon her prior household blah blah blah.

Ex’s Lawyer – Your honor there is no truth to this whatsoever, she simple moved in with a good frined of the family while she works out her emotional problems…

ME in a kind of outburst to my lawyer – BULLCHIT, good friend of the family my @ss, she is f’n him every got damn night of the week, emotional problems, how can she have emotional problems when she is f’n every got damn guy in the neighborhood I think she might have some medial problems but her emotions are no problem…

Judge – Mr. **** please warn your client to remain silent during these proceedings or he will be removed.

ME to my lawyer – well say something damnit she is lying, isn’t she suppose to take a damn oath.

My lawyer – This is family court, there is no oaths that’s in criminal courts…


Like I said I can laugh about it now but I think my biggest problem was I just could not get over how you could lie right threw your teeth so needless to say I wasn’t playing sad in court just pissed off about the deal…


There was another time when I first went into court without my lawyer and the judge asked where my lawyer was because he could not proceed without him. I told the judge I got rid of him. The judge asked if I filled some paper out and gave it to the court about getting rid of my lawyer. I told the judge I had no clue what he was talking about so he informed me about filling this paper out.

I asked if it was going to cost me anything and he said something stupid like it might be a few dollars is that a problem? I remember saying something smart@ss to him like “you mean to tell me you going to TAKE MORE OF MY MONEY just because I fired my lawyer.

He then suggested I rethink my decision on not having a lawyer and I told him I didn’t need to think about it since I had no money any way and didn’t intend to pay him any more money and that I could lose on my own just fine without paying for my lawyers Jag…

Theres a few more stories but I have hijacked the thread long enough for now…

 

It cost my father $70,000 to get rid of his second wife. She made him buy her out of the house as part of the settlement. BUT he got to keep his retirement, at least.

I've been relatively lucky. Both the state I live in and the state I inherited property in protect inheritance as sole and separate property, so it can't be attached in any divorce proceedings. Since I didn't get it until after he moved out, it's all mine free and clear.

Take everyone's advice. CONSULT AN ATTORNEY. Trust me, every time you meet with hers, they're making notes and everything single word you've said to them will come back to bite you! It is less messy (though more expensive at times) to talk through attorneys. It also gives you a lot more emotional distance while you put your thoughts in order. If she contacts you, tell her to go through her attorney, that you don't want to communicate directly with her until things are settled...

 

LOL! I love the stories!

I told her today I would give her the house (I'm guessing $40K in equity, maybe more), the tractor ($10K) and the mower ($3K) if she would stay away from my retirement. She flat out refused. I asked her what I was going to get out of her business, boy, talk about getting defensive fast. She pulled the ole "you're trying to get me to lose everything". I about jumped out of my skin. I can't believe that crap that she believes.

She wants to treat her business as a totally seperate issue, meaning I don't get anything. She claims although she made more in three of those six months that she didn't really. She does have to pay for supplies, and the credit cards companies she has to deal with are totally outrageous, so that takes a big chunk of the profit. I told her I deserve something from it and she left crying and was very upset. Funny thing, it didn't make me feel like sh@t like it would have a few days ago. I don't feel good about it though.

I talked to a military attorney today and he said everything you guys have been saying "Get a lawyer", so I'm going to get a lawyer. I hate to do that, I just feel like they are watching out for themselves more than their clients.

What should I be prepared for on my first visit? I imagine I will need a list of all of our assets and maybe last years taxes?

The emotional side is getting a lot better, maybe because of the anger, I don't know. I went to group counseling today and I sure didn't care for that much. I don't think I'll be going back to that. It was all kids (23 and below). Here I'm 42 and I'm wanting to yell at these kids "don't be such a ******** and suck it up". Granted, they do have probelms, but nothing I didn't go through without counseling at their age.

This whole thing sucks and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy!

 

My lawyer was funny at first, he told me his job was to cut her jugular and let her bleed to death and my job was to tell him if he should stop the bleeding…

Damn I should have let him do that in the beginning…

Anyway do NOT worry about what your wife may have paid out for what ever with profits. Bottom line is what did she gross and what did she report to the IRS for gross. That is all that counts the rest is “oh well, so sad baby taken you to the bank”

Here is the way to look at it, she may think she sees some light at the end of the tunnel, your job is to blow up the end of the tunnel and seal the damn light that she sees.

Has she actually filed for divorce yet or is she just talking to a lawyer? If she hasn’t actually filed then get a lawyer and file, file now because most the time the first one to court wins, play the offensive because as they say the best defense is offense.

Usually you will need your last years worth of bank statements, any retirement plan statement you may have (if you have 401k etc) and I believe last year or the past 3 years of your tax returns.

What expenses do you have now? You want all that information, house payments, property taxes, credit card bills etc, anything you are currently paying for get the statements because you will need that to show your lawyer what you’re actually paying out now since she left you and the bills.

Do you know anybody that she may have had an affair with? Do you know anybody that may want to say they had an affair in court to “help” you out?

Remember in family court nobody takes an oath so lying IS allowed, look at family court as a good ol’ street fight, there is no rules. Hey if I had designed the family courts there would be oaths and lie detector machines you hook everyone up to while on the stand and if the machine thought they were lying they would get zapped with like 50,000 volts of juice…

Alright so I am a little bitter with how things operate in family courts but I laugh my @ss off now about it and everyone kept telling me to fight fire with fire but OH NO, I couldn’t do that because I really “believed” things would work out in the end.

In any regards I am glad I didn’t go the full out kill mode and put my daughter through that barrel of emotions and I do believe in the long run things worked out much better for my daughter and myself…

 

2000Lariat,

How is everything going? Haven't heard from you so just checking to see if things are going ok for you, let us know buddy…