People, here is the way I try to debate issues. If I think a particular viewpoint, belief or value is wrong I try to explain why I think it is wrong and then give examples. I also, unlike many liberals, usually give what I think is a better way and why I think it is a better way.

For example, many liberals think the war on terror in general is wrong and therefore feel they are justified in not agreeing in the current policies we have in regards to fighting terrorism. What is missing is they never give an alternate way of dealing with the problem or a different solution to the problem they just simply ramble on about how screwed up the current situation is.

Please forgive me but if someone wants to debate an issue then they should have an alternate plan or solution and then debate the merits of why they think their method is better then the current one practiced.

To not do that is to not debate but to just ramble on about something they have no clue on. To say President Bush is screwing up things is NOT a debate. To say they believe President Bush is screwing up and THEN having an alternate method or solution and then EXPLAING how they think that method may be better is debating an issue.

That rarely ever happens from the liberals in power. They simply run around whining about something but yet have no alternate plan or solution of their own. They would rather tell people things are screwed up and they can make it better and then usually always add the statement ”We need more money”.

Welfare is a good example. I say cut and gut it and start over and make sure people REALLY need it. The liberals would come running out of the wood work and NOT have any alternate plan or solution but paint me as an uncaring idiot who wants to see people starve to death.

That there ends the debate for most people, not me, because they would feel intimidated because now they are being portrayed as some nut wanting to see people starve to death. That is NOT a debate nor is it morally or ethically correct, it’s simply a scare tactic and that is what liberals in general are very good at…

If people want to “truly” debate the issue on the war on terrorism (America’s safety and our children’s future) then ”Bring it on” because I am ready to debate anyone, anywhere, for how ever long it takes IF you really want to debate it rather then simple sound bites about how it is screwed up now. Bring me you alternate method or solution to deal with the problem. The problem is REAL, it is HERE and it will NOT go away for a very long time. No stupid fictional movie will change what is happening in reality, it might make you feel good for a while, but it will NOT change reality…

You want to debate then bring your solution to the table and let’s debate it…

 

Reminds me of the joke about the Master Bater.

 

The 130,000 troops and 87 billion dollars that went to Iraq should have instead been sent to Afghanstan and by now should have spread into Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

Instead of 'fighting the war on terror' we are bogged down in Iraq creating new 'enemies' that didn't exist before.

It is insane.

 

"To say President Bush is screwing up things is NOT a debate." True, but this is a forum, you are allowed to simply post your opinion.

 

Not anywhere near to the same degree as the far left-wing. The left-wing extremist try harder 10-fold to paint anyone that doesn't agree with their political viewpoints as a terrorist abroad or a right-wing conservative here at home. It's grown to the point where the left-wing extremist attempt to label anyone that doesn't agree with the their political viewpoints in anyway, shape or form, or for that matter even ask any questions, because a non-american liberal opinion doesn't count. Again, why debate the specifics when you can just attempt to discredit your opponent's opinion to begin with in an attempt to 'disqualify' the opposing opinion? That way you don't have to worry about the little things like the specifics, or what's the truth, or who is right or wrong. It's the official liberal extremist way.

Hope ya don’t mind if I changed a few words.

 

Agreed, I see nothing wrong with that and hope you did not misunderstand my post. I was specifically referring to the debates we get into at times and sometimes get heated. However I would “warn” those that do fall into a debate thread that come along and simply post an opinion with nothing to back it up “look out”.

 

Yeah, I'll wait until your on vacation before posting any simple opinions!

 

Actually I guess this would be the thread to post your “opinion”. I believe the original intent of the thread starter was for “OPINIONS”…

 

For those that ask yourself... "Why Iraq?" "Why not Iran?" "Why not Saudi Arabia?"

First the obvious... It doesn't matter where Bush is focusing his attention, it's gonna be wrong. If that hasn't been established by now, then somebody's not paying attention.

Next... Check out the map of Iran. Where are Iraq and Afghanistan in relation to Iran? How do you think this makes Iran feel? Secure? Nervous? More amenable to change? Just a few questions out of many possible ones. I don't know what's planned; but, I can see possibilities that aren't all bad. Invasion may not even be required. If we can isolate them, there are factions within Iran that are more than ready for change. things won't turn around tomorrow; but, things could already be on the right path for our descendants not to have Muslim extremism to deal with.









All speculation of course.

 

An extremist is an extremist... Makes no difference which side of the fence you are on.

 

True, but the grass is greener on the right side of the fence.

Seems there is so many people on the left side of the fence it has killed the grass…

 

Quite honestly XLT, your usually as quick to get your liberal paintbrush out and start slinging paint at anyone that doesn't agree with your viewpoints as anyone on this site!

Want to debate the specifics? Start out by telling me how the republicans spent the last year of the Clinton admin. with over 225 FBI agents and the entire congress assigned to worry about where Bill stuck his cigar instead of tending to any of the rest of the nation's business or returning the phone calls from the flight schools calling to say it seemed a little strange foreign students were taking flying lessons but did not care to learn how to take off or land, helped prepare us for what ultimately happened, despite repeated warnings that exactly what ended up happening would eventually occur? Tell me how once 9/11 happened, after we squashed Afghanistan after giving Osama bin Laden close to a 2 month head start to run for the hills why we headed straight over to Iraq (who had NOTHING to do with 9/11) instead of actually dealing with the country who attacked us, and is proven to sponsor terrorism (Saudi Arabia)? I'm sure it could have nothing to do with the fact that the Bush family has been in bed with the Saudi's for the last 20 years and has GIVEN the Bush family close to 2 BILLION dollars in cash could it? Explain to me how setting up secret tribunal courts, suspending the genva convention for all POW's, and even making PICKETING in front of the White House illegal is the 'American Way' ??? We have become a nation full of fools that is willing to believe anything we are told, and give up any right that we have as long as the government promises to keep the big-bad-boogie-man away!

 

BINGO

That was the point I wanted to make.

 

Perhaps that is the perception from some, or many, or few. In any regards I point out there particular philosophy which usually tends to be liberal in many aspects. Is that their particular philosophy? Who is to say, I don’t know if it is something they truly believe in or a sound bite one may have picked up on TV, either way if it’s a spade then a spade it is. I don’t just call someone a liberal because they don’t agree with me I do so based on their response and their particular beliefs.

The question I continue to have is why do liberals get so offended when you call them liberals. It is as if they think it’s a very nasty and mean name. Do you ever see me get upset when someone calls me a conservative? It makes me proud…

I guess that all goes together. Not sure if it was 225 FBI but for arguments sake we’ll accept that figure. I would agree with you that it was a huge waste of time and money and I did not agree with it. No, I was never fond of Clinton however he was President and unless he had done something that could have harmed our national security or had actually committed a felony while in office there was no need for what had happen. That is my opinion. I think Clinton did disgrace our country but I think the republicans did as well. I look at the period as a bipartisan disgrace to our country.

However, I think once he was out of office it would have been fine to pursue him for any possible crimes he may have committed while acting as President. That would have been the time to let the chips fall where they may.

Let’s not start blaming everything on republicans when it comes to the problems that happen that led our intelligence to not get information about flight schools and taking lessons and so forth as you mention. Truth is it wouldn’t have mattered if all the 225 FBI were available or not, or if we had another 500 on top of that. The fact of the matter is that our intelligence problems date back many years ago where the FBI and CIA could not communicate with one another. That in large part was due to liberals and if I am correct it started somewhere around the 60’s

I wouldn’t say we gave Osama bin Laden a 2 month head start, at least not purposely. I would agree that it was a big mistake and nothing more. War has no script and therefore it is play as you go. There will always be mistakes made so you live with it, learn from it and move on. To many people for what ever reason have some false assumption that if we would have or do catch Osama that the terrorism will end throughout the world. Personally I don’t think we should waste another dime hunting down Osama. Many liberals have whined about the money spent on the war in Iraq but yet don’t make any mention about the big time money that has been spent hunting down Osama…

As far as Iraq being involved in 911 or not is up for debate. However what is known is Iraq was very much involved with terrorism around the world and specifically any terrorist who would wish to cause grave harm to America with Iraq’s WMD’S.

Iraq WAS a big part of the war on terror and there is really not much to debate on that subject. They were the Home Depot to terrorist for training and supplying them with weapons. There was information that Iraq indeed was planning on attacks in America and even Russia has stated that fact.

I have heard this accusation a few times now. Now I am not going to come out and say it is completely false but until someone can give me some good solid facts to back this up it is nothing more the liberal propaganda. When I say “good solid facts” I don’t mean from some liberal website. It needs to be from a widely known mainstream media outlet and more then just one. For example if I had some good solid facts reported by FOX and CNN then I would buy into the possibility that this accusation could be true.


First and foremost many tribunal courts for many of years have been secret. That is nothing new. I believe you may be refereeing to military tribunal courts and those too have always been secret. So my question is why change? Why do we have to change now? Because there is a republican President?

As far as suspending the Geneva Convention that is only afforded to POW’S. POW’S are prisoners of war that ARE uniformed soldiers. That does not mean anybody that is out shooting a gun or trying to kill you. If they are not in a clearly identifiable military uniform they are NOT a POW, they are an illegal combatant of who do NOT fall under the Geneva Conventions.

Second there is nothing in the Constitution that guarantees anyone the right to picket wherever they wish and in what ever manner they wish. The first amendment states, as far as picketing is concerned: …”the right of the people to peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

The Supreme Court has upheld in many cases that people can not simple picket or protest wherever and whenever they want. The Supreme Court realized that for the good AND safety of all people there is nothing wrong for cities or local municipals to have people who wish to “peaceably assemble” get a permit in order to give the city/local area notice so that the city can insure it is a “peaceably assemble” and insure the safety of all.

As far as if it is illegal to “peaceable assembly” in front of the White House I just don’t know for sure. However if you refer to the First Amendment it makes no mention or guarantee any right as to being able to “peaceable assembly” anywhere one wishes…

 

I'd say there is some truth in that statement. I don't think it extends to everyone; but, you seem to have at least included yourself.