I also agree, a one liner without fact is no more then what you may expect from a Kerry fan. It will be interesting to see in the next few months how each candidate portrays themselves. How they believe on the issues will be what gets my vote. Kerry in my book is just a fall guy (a loser) for the 2004 elections allowing Hillary a weak Republican challenge in 2008.

 

VS Bush who Skipped out on Nam all together to drink and sniff coke.... Give me a break!

Yea, he got hit by schrapnel from a mortor. That means a Bomb fell within 15 meters of him and exploded sending peices of that Bomb into his flesh 3 Times!. 15 meters is a LOT closer to war than Bush has Ever gotten.

Get your facts right.

 

Honestly, attacking Kerry's Medals and awards is a Direct tack on the Military itself. Kerry didn't give these things to Himself. So Everyone who's gotten a purple heart or a Star may have not really "earned" it??? The military just throws these things out like candy??? If I speak to one of our war hero's and he shows me his purple heart he has my utmost Respect. I'm not going to question him on "how big of an injury" it was.... That's just wrong.

 

I agree with BHibbs as far as military medals go. At the time Kerry received them he was just like any other solider. I really don’t believe he would have received any medals he did not qualify for.

It is not Kerry’s medals that distinguish him anyway. As soon as Kerry left the service and starting running his mouth about lies on things he really had no clue about and trying his best to screw his fellow soldiers in the name of power in an elected office it distinguished Kerry as morally corrupt and that he would say what ever he had to at any given moment to gain power.

That is why Kerry has few supporters among those that actually served with him and it is what Kerry did after Vietnam and continues to do today that distinguishes him from the others.

Kerry will say and do what ever is necessary to gain and keep power. President Bush on the other hand and for the most part is going to tell you how it is rather you like it or not. Not saying President Bush won’t do something for votes, healthcare bill comes to mind, but for the most part President Bush is well above Kerry when it comes to being honest and trustworthy.

You know why Kerry kept his mouth shut, for the most part, over the prisoner abuse issue? Because Kerry has admitted to commiting war crimes while serving in Vietnam. He participated in free fire zones (no-no to the Geneva Convention) as well as setting villages on fire (another no-no in the Geneva Conventions).

So when people question President Bush’s not serving in active duty during Vietnam one must ask:

Was it better to serve in the guards or to serve in active duty and commit war crimes?

I think if one had to choose I would pick the one that did NOT commit war crimes and gave America a bad name…

Kerry has continued to show his disgust with the military since leaving voting against things for the military on numerous occasions while in office. Why? Because his base is liberal and liberals in general HATE the military and thus Kerry must keep them happy. So what Kerry did after leaving Vietnam is just as relevant today as it was then because it is 20 plus years of documented proof that you can NEVER believe anything Kerry says because it is only for the moment and those in the room with him.

”I voted for the $87 billion to support our troops before I voted against the $87 billion to SCREW our troops in order to hopefully become the next President”

Not the exact quote but that is exactly what it meant…

 

Actually the 'three' different Purple Hearts were for "three" different occasions, not one. Two of the three of the wounds could be, as official docs show, covered with a band-aid.
I would not make fun of "any" medals. What makes me question Sen. Kerry's judgement and / or wisdom is his military voting record (continually at odds with reality and the needs of the military)_ his inability to recall "whose" medals, or "whose" ribbons, he threw over the fence in his "rebellion" days post Vietnam... his long standing relationship with Jane Fonda who, without refute, is responsible for two POW's (or more, but two for sure) death following her disclosure about and handing over of the notes they passed to her for loved ones when Fonda visited Hanoi and was pictured behind the AA gun with a VC helmet on (yeah the same AA gun(s) that shot down American flyers)... these and numerous other vascillating actions make me doubt Kerry strongly.
As far as Pres. Bush's military record, he flew the Century series fighter. His records, all of them (unlike another Presidential candidate), show how many hours and where he flew. Recall if you will this was the time of the Cold War. These fighters, most of the guard just at Bush was, were responsible for the northern borders. They were to fly out to intercept incoming Russian bombers. They were to fly as fast and far north as possible (meaning to those of you who haven't followed that period, YOU DON'T have enough fulel to get back to base) and intercept the incoming Russians. Maybe you could bail out into frigid climes, who knows. That and the fact that the Century series fighters where KNOWN to be very cutting edge and dangerous planes leads me to believe that he was in possession of skills and courage that the unsupported remarks about the use of drugs cannot undermine. Pres. Bush did say he drank too often in college. Now who didn't??? But he never took drugs, his exercise habits go way back, very far back and he has cared for his health. That was part of the reason he quit drinking.
Support the vile suppositions with facts or be quiet.

 

Could someone substantiate the qoute from before "VS Bush who Skipped out on Nam all together to drink and sniff coke.... Give me a break!" I know he did not serve in Vietnam, but did he ever get involved with coke?

 

Hey Smithy,
where in MA (I grew up in Concord)...

Nope, haven't heard anyone in a position of accountability speak about 'coke' (I bet he likes Pepsi anyway ;^)

Interestingly for history buffs... pre- WWII,
Hitler and Stalin signed a 'coalition' agreement (basically an anti-agression treaty)... directly after that, Stalin and the CPOA (Comm Party of Amer) started smearing FDR. Pickets in front of the White House, labor movements to stall the minimal war effort, angry "politicians" speaking out against England, saying England was the agressor - so forth. And of course it was all lies. But AMERICA and some of the MEDIA really bought into it... then later in the war Hitler buried the agreement, attacked Russia and OVERNIGHT the whole picture changed. The strikes were gone, the picketers were gone and the Communist Party of America was all 'aw shucks, we are fighting the same enemy, we love you guys... ' . Until a short time after the war, then it was into the cold war.
Okay, so what I am saying is that flip flopping, dragging up partial truths and embellishing them, associating with people who really do "hate" America, well, it has been part of the effort to bring us to our knees (a 'quote' btw by one George Soros, who for those who don't know it, is funding a lot of the 527s behind the Kerry TV adds, he [Soros] hates America and HE IS SUPPORTING Kerry and he is in KERRY's camp big time)... association and actions make this man dangerous to all real AMERICANs. Kerry flip flops, his supporters drag up non-truthes or half truthes and his backing comes from the like of George Soros. That is enough for me. No politician is perfect, some far less than others (and for those of us who lived in MA or live there, just drive the little bridge made famous by one politicians failure to try and save a drowing girl - you'll figure it out), but I could not vote for Kerry if he were the only candidate.

 

Everytime they ask Bush if he did he just dodges the question. The last one he said he could pass a screening dating back 7 years... How lame is that! There's even an entire book about how he got busted in 1972.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/10/18/cocaine/

Yea, it's not totally proven, but I thought it was pretty much accepted he did, if you heard him dodging the question it seems pretty obvious. Just do a search on it..

You guys should check into Kerry's voting record as well. Even McCain says his record is ok and Kerry has an admirable record in office. Yea, he voted against the 87billion, because he wanted to put some checks and balances and didn't agree with the 11 billion of add on's the Republican's tacked to it. He basically didn't want to give bush a blank check.

Kerry's shown nothing but support for our troops. Trying to attach him to the likes of Jane Fonda and saying he DOESN'T support the troops is just Dirty politics in my book. Just like trying to berate a guys service record. All this coming from a guy that was unaccounted for 8 months when he was supposed to be serving. Yea, that's cool.

How many Russian's was Bush going to blast from the sky when they couldn't even Find him??

Do you know all the circumstances for each and Every Vote Kerry placed? The Republican's just had to vote down a Gun Bill because of all the extra stuff that got attached to it. So I guess, technically I could say "Republican's voted against a gun bill" "That means they're for tougher Gun control." On paper, this is technically correct!

It's sad that these superficial Negative Ad campaignes Bush is pumping out actually work on those who just don't know any better.

 

Here are the facts.
He voted to kill the Bradley Fighting Vehicle
He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank
He voted to kill every Aircraft carrier laid down from 1988
He voted to kill the Aegis anti aircraft system
He voted to Kill the F-15 strike eagle
He voted to Kill the Block 60 F-16
He voted to Kill the P-3 Orion upgrade
He voted to Kill the B-1
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the Patriot anti Missile system
He voted to Kill the FA-18
He voted to Kill the B-2
He voted to Kill the F117

In short, he voted to kill every military appropriation for the development and deployment of every weapons systems since 1988 to include the battle armor for our troops. With Kerry as president our Army will be made up of naked men running around with sticks and clubs.

He also voted to kill all anti terrorism activities of every agency of the US. Government and to cut the funding of the FBI by 60%, to cut the funding for the CIA by 80%, and cut the funding for the NSA by 80%.

But then he voted to increase OUR funding for U.N operations by 800%!!!
The UNITED NATIONS!

THESE are facts, not partisan rants about a one time DUI charge.

While I agree that some 'pork barrel' additions MIGHT make someone vote against military spending on occasion, this is a HISTORY of it.

Further no one is attacking his record. The three purple hearts suffered in a certain period of time allowed someone to exit Vietnam right away. He got three.

Salon is a known liberal magazine that might as well be sold next to the grocery store checkout "martians baby on mars" stories.

No one is perfect. The lack of judgement on Kerry's part, his associations and yes FONDA is one I don't like and for reasons already listed, which cannot be denied or refuted (just do some real research on what happened to those two POWs) - the Winter Soldier leadership he partook of, his book basically calling most vets "baby killers" (which he personally has PAID to have removed from public circulation, why?), all these lead me to believe there is more to worry about from recorded documentation of Kerry's senatorial record and the poor decisions they represent vs. the innuendo of a few articles about Pres. Bush... I want Bush leading us in this 'war'...

 

You've been duped by a deceitful add campaigne. Please read below:


"The claim about these votes was made in the Republican National Committee "Research Briefing" of Feb. 22. The report lists 13 weapons systems that Kerry voted to cut—the ones cited above, as well as Patriot air-defense missiles, Tomahawk cruise missiles, and AH64 Apache helicopters, among others.

It is instructive, however, to look at the footnotes. Almost all of them cite Kerry's vote on Senate bill S. 3189 (CQ Vote No. 273) on Oct. 15, 1990. Do a Google search, and you will learn that S. 3189 was the Fiscal Year 1991 Defense Appropriations Act, and CQ Vote No. 273 was a vote on the entire bill. There was no vote on those weapons systems specifically.

On a couple of the weapons, the RNC report cites H.R. 5803 and H.R. 2126. Look those up. They turn out to be votes on the House-Senate conference committee reports for the defense appropriations bills in October 1990 (the same year as S. 3189) and September 1995.

In other words, Kerry was one of 16 senators (including five Republicans) to vote against a defense appropriations bill 14 years ago. He was also one of an unspecified number of senators to vote against a conference report on a defense bill nine years ago. The RNC takes these facts and extrapolates from them that he voted against a dozen weapons systems that were in those bills. The Republicans could have claimed, with equal logic, that Kerry voted to abolish the entire U.S. armed forces, but that might have raised suspicions. Claiming that he opposed a list of specific weapons systems has an air of plausibility. On close examination, though, it reeks of rank dishonesty.



"Before George W. Bush's political operatives started pounding on John Kerry for voting against certain weapons systems during his years in the Senate, they should have taken a look at this quotation:

After completing 20 planes for which we have begun procurement, we will shut down further production of the B-2 bomber. We will cancel the small ICBM program. We will cease production of new warheads for our sea-based ballistic missiles. We will stop all new production of the Peacekeeper [MX] missile. And we will not purchase any more advanced cruise missiles. … The reductions I have approved will save us an additional $50 billion over the next five years. By 1997 we will have cut defense by 30 percent since I took office.

The speaker was President George H.W. Bush, the current president's father, in his State of the Union address on Jan. 28, 1992. "

http://slate.msn.com/id/2096127/

They should also have looked up some testimony by **** Cheney, the first President Bush's secretary of defense (and now vice president), three days later, boasting of similar slashings before the Senate Armed Services Committee:

Overall, since I've been Secretary, we will have taken the five-year defense program down by well over $300 billion. That's the peace dividend. … And now we're adding to that another $50 billion … of so-called peace dividend.

Cheney proceeded to lay into the then-Democratically controlled Congress for refusing to cut more weapons systems.

Congress has let me cancel a few programs. But you've squabbled and sometimes bickered and horse-traded and ended up forcing me to spend money on weapons that don't fill a vital need in these times of tight budgets and new requirements. … You've directed me to buy more M-1s, F-14s, and F-16s—all great systems … but we have enough of them.

Yea, they're "Facts" but the less educated, or those who don't bother to look into the details are being nothing but deceived by lies and things taken out of context. That's the only way this administration is going to retain it's office. What's sad is these tactics actually work on a lot of people. That's frustrating...

 

They used planes from Texas to do this?

I'm no military strategist, but I would think that planes stationed in Alaska and Washington state would be in a better position to intercept. Not to mention NORAD bases in Canada.

Texan planes would have been used to keep an eye on Cuba, home of the world's largets air force.

 

Someone has been dooped by Kerry and his spinmisters…


Those that want to support a person who aided the enemy in Vietnam and committed war crimes in Vietnam VOTE for Kerry…

Those that want a strong national defense, a strong economy and someone that will stand up to terrorist VOTE for Bush…


It is really that simple…

 

Kerry voted AGAINST:

S. 1389:
B-1 Bomber
B-2 Bomber
F-15
F-16
Patriot Missiles
Aegis Air Defense Cruiser
Trident Missiles System for Submarines
M-1 Abrams Tank
Bradley Fighting Vehicle
Tomahawk Cruise Missiles

H.R. 5803
F-14

H.R. 2126
AV-8B Jet Fighter
AH-64 Apache Helicoptor


In 1991 Kerry voted to cut defense spending by 2 percent. Only 21 other senators voted with Kerry, and the defense cut was defeated.

In 1991, Kerry voted to cut over $3 billion from defense and shift the funds to social programs. Only 27 senators joined Kerry in voting for the defense cut.

In 1992, Kerry voted to cut $6 billion from defense. Republicans and Democrats alike successfully blocked this attempt to cut defense spending.

In 1993, Kerry voted against increased defense spending for a military pay raise.

In 1993, Kerry introduced a plan to cut the number Of Navy submarines and their crews; reduce tactical fighter wings in the Air Force; terminate the Navy’s coastal mine-hunting ship program; force the retirement of 60,000 members of the armed forces in one year; and reduce the number of light infantry units in the Army down to one. The plan was DOA.

In 1995, Kerry voted to freeze defense spending for seven years, cutting over $34 billion from defense. Only 27 other senators voted with Kerry.

In 1996, Kerry introduced a bill to cut Defense Department funding by $6.5 billion. Kerry’s bill had no co-sponsors and never came to a floor vote.

In 1996, Kerry voted yes on a fiscal 1996 budget resolution – a defense freeze that would have frozen defense spending for the next seven years and transferred the $34.8 billion in savings to education and job training. The resolution was rejected 28-71.

********************************
Senator Kerry also voted against the first Gulf War in 1991

Senator Kerry voted for the war in Iraq then voted NO to supporting our troops with the weapons and protections they need…

”I voted for the $87 billion to support our troops before I voted against the $87 billion to completely screw our troops and turn this war into a political game for my OWN gain”

Not Kerry’s exact quote but it is what he REALLY meant…

 

Interesting read especially since it is from a war vet…

The following was sent to a Marine chat net by a retired Marine Master Sergeant who was in S-2, 3rd Bn, 1st Marines, Korea in 1954. It calls into serious question John Kerry's military actions in Vietnam. We present it to give our readers another perspective to the media's one-sided "war hero" adulation, and to open his actions to the light of public discourse. -- The Editors.

I was in the Delta shortly after John Kerry left. I know that area well. I know the operations he was involved in well. I know the tactics and the doctrine used, and I know the equipment. Although I was attached to CTF-116 (PBRs) I spent a fair amount of time with CTF-115 (swift boats), Kerry's command.

Here are my problems and suspicions:


(1) Kerry was in-country less than four months and collected a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. I never heard of anybody with any outfit I worked with (including SEAL One, the Sea Wolves, Riverines and the River Patrol Force) collecting that much hardware that fast, and for such pedestrian actions. The Swifts did a commendable job, but that duty wasn't the worst you could draw. They operated only along the coast and in the major rivers (Bassac and Mekong). The rough stuff in the hot areas was mainly handled by the smaller, faster PBRs.


(2) He collected three Purple Hearts but has no limp. All his injuries were so minor that he lost no time from duty. Amazing luck. Or he was putting himself in for medals every time he bumped his head on the wheel house hatch? Combat on, the boats were almost always at close range. You didn't have minor wounds, at least not often. Not three times in a row. Then he used the three Purple Hearts to request a trip home eight months before the end of his tour. Fishy.

(3) The details of the event for which he was given the Silver Star make no sense at all. Supposedly, a B-40 was fired at the boat and missed. Charlie jumps up with the launcher in his hand, the bow gunner knocks him down with the twin .50, Kerry beaches the boat, jumps off, shoots Charlie, and retreives the launcher. If true, he did everything wrong.
(a) Standard procedure when you took rocket fire was to put your stern to the action and go ***** to the wall. A B-40 has the ballistic integrity of a frisbie after about 25 yards, so you put 50 yards or so between you and the beach and begin raking it with your .50's.
(b) Did you ever see anybody get knocked down with a .50 caliber round and get up? The guy was dead or dying. The rocket launcher was empty. There was no reason to go after him (except if you knew he was no danger to you just flopping around in the dust during his last few seconds on earth, and you wanted some derring-do in your after-action report). And we didn't shoot wounded people. We had rules against that, too.
(c) Kerry got off the boat. This was a major breach of standing procedures. Nobody on a boat crew ever got off a boat in a hot area. EVER! The reason was simple: If you had somebody on the beach, your boat was defenseless. It coudn't run and it couldn' t return fire. It was stupid and it put his crew in danger. He should have been relieved and reprimanded. I never heard of any boat crewman ever leaving a boat during or after a firefight.

Something is fishy.

Here we have a JFK wannabe (the guy Halsey wanted to court martial for carelessly losing his boat and getting a couple people killed by running across the bow of a Japanese destroyer) who is hardly in Vietnam long enough to get good tan, collects medals faster than Audie Murphy in a job where lots of medals weren't common, gets sent home eight months early and requests separation from active duty a few months after that so he can run for Congress. In that election, he finds out war heroes don't sell well in Massachsetts in 1970, so he reinvents himself as Jane Fonda, throws his ribbons in the dirt with the cameras running to jump start his political career, gets Stillborn Pell to invite him to address Congress and has Bobby Kennedy's speechwriter to do the heavy lifting. A few years later he winds up in the Senate himself, where he votes against every major defense bill and says the CIA is irrelevant after the Berlin Wall came down. He votes against the Gulf War (a big political mistake since that turned out well), then decides not to make the same mistake twice so votes for invading Iraq -- but that didn't fare as well with the Democrats, so he now says he really didn't mean for Bush to go to war when he voted to allow him to go to war.

I'm real glad you or I never had this guy covering out flanks in Vietnam. I sure don't want him as Commander-in-Chief. I hope that somebody from CTF-115 shows up with some facts challenging Kerry's Vietnam record. I know in my gut it's wildy inflated.

 

So you DO go around asking Veteran's of war just how "severe" their wounds were that earned them their purple hearts....

Takes a lot of guts, especially from someone who's never been in combat themselves...

I make it simple to pick my next president. I just ask myself "Am I happy with how the nation is Now Vs 4 years ago. The answer seems pretty obvious.

Highest gas prices Ever
Highest Trade Deficit Ever
Record Budget deficit that's only going to get worse.
Liberated a country where 75% of the people there Don't want us.
Got involved in a war over WMD when in fact they had none
Meanwhile, North Korea, Syria, and Iran are building Nukes.
Spent hundreds of Billions of dollars so far on "Homeland" security and you can still just walk across our southern boarders unopposed.
Highest unemployment Rate in 10 years.
Huge increases in spending.
Millions of Manufacturing jobs Lost.
Drug benefit that's too complicated and cost 3 times what Bush said it would. All without negotiating any discounts.
Credibility with world Diplomacy lost, and More of the world hates the US more than Ever.
STill haven't caught OBL, the person actually Responsible for the WTC attacks.
"Tax Cuts" have created more increases in State Taxes, School Levies, College tuitions, and other fees to the point I'm paying MORE in taxes than when I did with a Dem in office.

Yea, the choice is pretty simple for me. I'm sure you guys will somehow try to blame all of this on Clinton. That doesn't fly with me. When one of my employee's trys to pass all of his woes on "the last" guy, I get rid of him too. If they Really know what they're doing, they'll somehow make it happen. Bush hasn't made it happen. On the contrary, he's made things a LOT worse...