I thinks anyone who at a time of war decides they want to be a concensious objector the gov't allows them to be. It is clearly asked prior to entry into the military. I would prefer to have these people removed from service prior to having to count on them in a combat zone. For those who stay and request a noncombat role because their beliefs do not allow them to kill then remove them from the service and like Wildchild stated have them pay back all monies for their replacement but not including pay.

There should be another catagory for reelease from the military, one that can not be upgraded six months after release and that is one for those who chose to leave instead of filling their term during war time. Those who desert should be shot on sight, um, after court martial. Personally I would not want some one who will not fire their weapon when neccessary sitting next to me in a foxhole.

01--I think a got to disagree with one of your statements. A soldiers job is to think it is not to blindly follow orders. If an order is CLAEARLY unlawful then there is no duty to follow it. An example would be accepting an order to kill a large number of a certain religious group simply because they are breathing(like Germany in the '30s and 40's).

 

Ok I can buy that and I absolutely agree with it to a point. So long as a soldiers knows full well with out any doubts that the order is unlawful as in your example or if they were ordered to kill innocent women and children.

However, generally speaking it is NOT a soldier’s responsibility to think about every order given to them and then decide if they will or will not follow it. My example that I made in my prior post was the order to go to war in Iraq.

It does NOT matter if the soldier “thinks” that the war might be because of oil or any other debates going on here in America. That is for America to debate through their elected officials and not for the person in uniform to debate among themselves.

A soldier does NOT and NEVER will have all the information that an order is based on and thus the should carry it out WITHOUT thought so long as it is not an obvious unlawful order such as to kill innocent women and children. However, if there are a bunch of women and children charging a unit and they have weapons and are firing those weapons and a soldier is ordered to shoot them then they had better follow that order or suffer the worst kind of punishment…

I do not agree with just letting people out of the military for ANY reason once a war has started. Since they joined voluntarily to begin with they are here until their enlistment is up. Now I do agree to get all the cowards off the front line so they don’t get their comrades killed in action while handing out the Kleenex.

To those that have to be removed from the front line for refusing to fight they should be held in brigs and FORCED into HARD LABOR of 20 hours a day 7 days a week breaking rocks and moving dirt around with only 2 meals of rice and water. They would also have their obligation extended by 5 years and would remain in the brig until their original obligation plus the 5 years is done.

Sorry but these wuss bags are not going to get the easy way out of doing laundry, cooking and cleaning crappers because they were to coward to do their job, they will pay and they should pay dearly as an example to others “THINK BEFORE YOU SIGN THE PAPER!”

It's called personal responsibility...

 

Just think....These coward ba$tards will probably vote absentee , from Canada, for their idol John Flip-flop Kerry. After all , there has been no trial , no conviction.

I am not certain they will be allowed to vote but it does pose an interesting question about the UCMJ and treatment of deserters.

They should be fairly tried, fairly found guilty and fairly executed. If Canada is truly an Allied force then they should extradite these crying , yellow skunks back to where they must own up for their actions by a jury of their peers in Iraq. I know that's not how it's handled the military but it would make for an interesting trial if televised to the world.

I cannot express enough about the anger I feel against those a-holes and their keepers.

 

They sound more like Nader fans to me. Nader is at least making a stand and saying what he thinks/believe about getting the troops out in 6 months.

On meet the press, the first question Russert asked is (and he asked for a yes/no answer) is if Kerry thinks we should be in Iraq. kerry says he disagree's with how the Prez 'went' to war. So I assume that Kerry agrees (from that exchange) that we should be there. But he will change his view tomorrow.

runnert

 

If I was a Canadian, I wouldn't want disloyal cowards hiding in my country. Any Canadian citizen who wants to kidnap them, render them unconsious and put them on the fast ferry from toronto to rochester (if it ever gets up and running) I'll happily wait on the other side with my truck to cart them off to the nearest military authorities. Heck I'll even pay their fare across and reimburse you for expenses just for the opportunity to help get these guys what they deserve.

 

What is with everyone saying they should be given dishonorable discharges? The hell with that! That's why there are federal penitentiaries and firing squads!

Their are ways to get out of the military, if given certain conditions. I had one relative get out w/ a general discharge because afte boot camp they wouldn't give him the position they promised him, and another relative get out w/ a general discharge because her husband left the state and she had a new baby to take care of. It was a complete scam though - the USMC wouldn't reenlist him, so he got his discharge, left the state and lived w/ her parents so she could get discharged. Good luck trying that in war time though! (This was AFTER Desert Storm, in which they both served)

 

Huh!!!???? Since when did execution mean dishonorable discharge??

 

We don't. Please separate citizens from government.

 

I couldn't agree more J-150!! I'm proud to be a Canadian but some of the stuff our Government does is just plain wrong.

 

Let me just clear this up with my friends from Canada and anyone that may have took my original post the wrong way.

I am not upset with the people of Canada just some in their government and some of the others in public life that think these MORONS are some kind of heroes. In other words I can NOT stand the liberals up in Canada anymore then the liberals here in America. Who else would think these idiots are some kind of heroes other then socialist liberals which live and breed in Canada just like in America.

At least for Canada they don’t have as many uneducated brain dead socialist liberals as we do in America and you all know damn well the socialist liberals here in America JUST LOVE what their brothers and sisters in Canada are doing for these cowards…

So just to clear it up this in NOT a Canada vs. America issue, this is as it always has been an uneducated brain dead socialist liberal vs. educated full brain function conservative and/or moderate issue…



Otherwise known as:

Terrorist LOVERS vs. Terrorist KILLERS

 

betcha I dislike them more than you!

 

So Burt,

What you're saying is that you don't like liberals very much, is that it?

 

I was just saying that if I was a Canadian citizen I would maybe not want to become a haven for deserters and cowards who made a commitment and ran away when it got scary. It would be totally different if they went there to avoid it in the first place but they chose to serve and then abandoned their duty when it was no longer safe or convienient. If they really had a problem with going and wanted to draw attention to their cause and objections they should have refused the order, got court martialed and dealt with the consequences. I would have at least not called them cowards then and might have respected their objections as they would be willing to make a sacrifice for their beliefs. Running away so you don't have to deal with the consequences of your beliefs is cowardly and even a disservice to your cause b/c you are not willing to put anything on the line for it, just take haven in a friendly and comfortable place. I wouldn't want people with that little courage and moral fiber around me regardless of the views on the war or political orientation. Anyway I'm not knocking your country or its, or your, position on the war, just a couple of American cowards taking advantage of your country. Sorry you got stuck with our trash.

 

Most of the other comments were for general discharge - obviously yours wasn't.