I'm just interested in peoples views on getting rid of the Federal income tax and going to a federal sales tax. To me it seems like a better choice as long as there is a provision that as long as the sales tax is in force an income tax cannot be levied and any increases have to be voted on by the people (it keeps the government from increasing and fiddling with the tax.)

Since the sales tax would be a consumption tax (those with federal tax numbers are excluded) it would hit the affluent more than the poor and would encourage savings.

There are many businesses out there that do not pay taxes due to write offs, skimming, and other items that preclude the levying of income taxes. Many people work under the table to avoid paying income taxes. As far as I can tell all people buy stuff, so essentially the tax base would increase with a corresponding decrease in the size of the IRS (it takes fewer people to police the businesses than it does to police the entire population).

I do not think this will ever happen. Like I said I'm just interested in peoples opinion.

 

I have read a lot about this and I would be in favor of it completely over our current system.

http://www.fairtax.org/

runnert

 

I was always interested in seeing a - Flat Tax

Get rid of all write-offs, deductions, shelters and loop holes

 

1depd,

I am all for it but prepare yourself for an onslaught of whining and screaming ”it’s not fair” because for some illogical reason the liberals will come up that it hurts the poor people more then the rich…

It’s funny because some of the poor people our using OUR money to begin with. In any regards it would be an accurate and fair way to tax everyone equally with no ifs ands or butts about it.

Trust me that the liberals will not have a good logical excuse just some lame ”it’s unfair” because what it will do is take their base away from them, the ones they have brainwashed for decades that it is they, the liberals, who can best take care of them.

If will also take the untrue liberal argument away that the rich don’t pay their fair share so the liberals won’t have the nasty evil rich people to blame problems on. In the end it will be the liberals who would do everything in their power to stop any type of fair and equal tax system from getting into place…

 

100 percent in agreement with national sales tax. Do away with IRS, tax on consumption, not on exemptions and earnings. Ill gotten gains would now enter the tax stream and will no longer be circumvented.

Will never happen, congress would have to approve it, a large portion of congressional consituency(special interest) comes from those who lobby (and donate) in effort to change the tax laws. Why would congress ever, undercut their lifeblood for reelection campaign. Furgin cowards.

 

I really don't want a federal sales tax. Why? Because you know damn well the would not get rid of the income tax. They would just add it on.

 

working under the table also prevents collection of sales taxes. The tax base would not increase.

 

Like many others on this board, I have lived in countries where there is a national sales tax. It varied in those days from about 15% to 20% on most goods, lots of exemptions and some items had lesser tax % (houses, for example).

Problem was, that these taxes were added on top of income tax formulas that were far in excess of what we would accept here.
When I lived in Sweden in 1974-1976, I paid almost 50% net net income tax and 17% sales tax on ordinary items. On top of that, even back then, gasoline was over $4 per gallon and cigarettes were about $6 a pack as I recall. And, that was 30 years ago.

As Kingfish51 said, the risk you run is that the politicians would most likely not give up the existing tax structure but would merely add to it a national sales tax.

While my thoughts will not be very popular here, I think Americans should count themselves rather lucky in the overall sense when it comes to the amount of taxes we have to pay. I also lived in Peru and Canada and the taxes I paid there were also at least double what I pay here on a low six figure joint income with my wife. On the other hand, on balance, at least in Sweden and Canada I felt I was getting much more bang for my buck or kronor than I do here at home. Peru was, I regret, a bit of a joke when it came to what became of my tax soles. The then dictatorship generals and admirals stole most of the money.

Sadly, it would probably take a complete turnout of the existing Senate and House as well as the Executive Branch to do any meaningful overhaul of our present system. It is too well entrenched, there is such an incredible amount of money gathered in that "has to be spent" and so many organizations that are getting the benefit of the money accumulated that none of the present government could ever hope to change the system even if they wanted to.

To me this is not really a liberal/conservative thing so much as it is a structural problem that has grown up over a very long period of time. Loopholes were created to solve short term problems and then became imbedded in the system. Special interest groups were able to get advantageous findings and those too became a permanent part of the tax code.

If we were able to start with a clean sheet of paper and completely rewrite the method of how our central government should collect enough money from it's citizens to efficiently run the country and do the things it needs to do that would be great but I do not see that happening unless we turn the whole political process upside down. That does not seem likely to happen either.
Bill

 

just think of how many millions this country would save not having to process tax information. No more W2, W4, Wx. I am for it

 

I agree with most of what everyone is saying. If the gov't did adopt a sales tax in lieu of an income tax then I am for it otherwise, heck no. I read somewhere that once the tax rate nears 40% an underground economy starts to develop cutting the taxman out of a lot of revenue. I don't know if that is $0% income tax or total tax. Has anyone else heard this? If you have could you fill me in on who said it and some details of it?

J-150--
You lost me there, the person making the money under the table is no longer at an advantage by not reporting their income to be taxed. It is instead taxed once they spend it like everyone else.

 

I would agree with a national sales tax and agree with Murry that it would take a complete change in the governing body and structure to implement. I dont agree though that it would or should tax corporations and big business. For one, business does not pay taxes on most items purchased either for resale or for corporate use. Two, no matter how you try to tax business and corporations it will get passed on to us the consumer. Fact is the working man pays the majority and will always be that way. A national sales tax would distribute this burden more evenly, but it will always be our burden just the same.

Sled..

https://www.f150online.com/galleries....cfm?gnum=3758

 

If I work "under the table" no taxes are collected on my earnings.

If I spend that money at the movies, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. the proposed tax WOULD be collected by the selling party.

How would the tax base not increase ??

 

If I spend that money at the movies, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. the proposed tax WOULD be collected by the selling party.

How would the tax base not increase ??

Excellent point, Then it could tighten the under the table loophole bigtime.

 

Ford4fun,
Not to bag on you personally, but you are wrong.
There would be no money saved in the collection of Federal revenue.

The IRS is NOT a branch of the Government. It is and has always been a private corporation. They have NO LAWS, only Tax code, and these are only enforceable because YOU (and me) signed a contract with them when we filed our first tax return.

(Don't believe me? research it)

The Federal tax system is based on "voluntary compliance". That means that you can "volunteer" out of the system, if you want. It takes ALOT of legal maneuvering, because of the "contract" that you have with the IRS, but it CAN be done.

(research it!)

When you sign a "signature card" at your favorite bank, you are again signing a contract with the IRS, Federal Reserve and who knows what else.

(research it!)

A Federal sales tax would be the BEST thing that America could do to generate income, as long as it is REPLACING the current (federal) tax system, and guarantees that income tax will never rear it's ugly head again.

I know that to a lot of you reading this , it sounds far fetched, but do a little research. Don’t take my word for it. Find out for yourself.
I *personally* volunteered out of the IRS tax system (untaxed) for 6 years (1991-1997), so I know it can legally be done. There are thousands (maybe more?) of people out there that have done the same, and continue to do so.

(research it!)

Did you know that the IRS cannot be AUDITED? (research it!) Now think about THAT!! The group of people who are responsible for controlling the single largest money flow in the country (maybe in the world) have NO responsibility to keep accurate books or even report what monies come and go where?!?!
They can legally take your hard earned money from your paycheck, and if they decide that it’s not enough, they take even more from you (read: strong arm). And if they are wrong? Don’t be silly. They are never wrong and you couldn’t prove it even if they were. Who would listen?

Enough for now. I am obviously in favor of a Federal Sales Tax system in place of the current, very crooked income tax system.

Don’t take my word for it. Educate yourself! (research it!)

Lonster (the happy irs hater)

 

Were you just trying to see how many times you could say "liberal" in one post?

Anyway. Here's the story on this "consumption" tax. Basically the top 1% of this nation are EXTREMELY rich. I'm fine with that, wish I was one of them, sometime I hope to be. Anyway, this top 1% controls 1/2 of the Nations TOTAL wealth. Yes, that's how rich they are. Well, they make all this money and are taxed on it at roughly the same rate as everyone else. Let's just say 30%. This is where you get into those stats that the Right wingers like to use that says the top 1% pay 90% of the total taxes. Yea, this is true, they pay their 30%, I pay mine, he just makes a lot more money than me. All is fair.

Example:

Joe Rich makes a million dollars in a year. 30% is 300,000.00.

Joe Poor makes 30,000 in a year. 30% is 10,000

So Total tax revenue collected between the two is 330,000. Now let's throw in mis leading stat that Right wingers likes to say. The rich guy paid 90% of the Taxes. That's unfair... Huh? Yea, it's true. 300,000.00/330,000.00 equals 90%. He paid his 30%, I paid mine, Flat tax is fair. That's just how it comes out when you make Soo much money.

This brings us to consumption tax: The only way Joe Rich can lower his taxes is by getting out of the Income structure (because he makes so much) and get into a consumption. The top 1% (God bless them, Someday, I'll be there) are incapable of spending 90% of the total taxes collected consuming things. There's the catch. The money has to come from somewhere. We'll be the ones to make up for it.

Flat tax, good, fair, equal, etc. Consumption tax, we get screwed. There's no way around it. Republicans want this because they are generally Very wealthy. They've just brainwashed a lot of good people with their mis-leading stats. Sadly, these are the people that will have to make up for all the missing tax revenue that won't be collected. Either that or just throw it on our 530 billion dollar deficit....