Federal sales tax
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Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Suwanee, GA
Were you just trying to see how many times you could say "liberal" in one post?
Anyway. Here's the story on this "consumption" tax. Basically the top 1% of this nation are EXTREMELY rich. I'm fine with that, wish I was one of them, sometime I hope to be. Anyway, this top 1% controls 1/2 of the Nations TOTAL wealth. Yes, that's how rich they are. Well, they make all this money and are taxed on it at roughly the same rate as everyone else. Let's just say 30%. This is where you get into those stats that the Right wingers like to use that says the top 1% pay 90% of the total taxes. Yea, this is true, they pay their 30%, I pay mine, he just makes a lot more money than me. All is fair.
Example:
Joe Rich makes a million dollars in a year. 30% is 300,000.00.
Joe Poor makes 30,000 in a year. 30% is 10,000
So Total tax revenue collected between the two is 330,000. Now let's throw in mis leading stat that Right wingers likes to say. The rich guy paid 90% of the Taxes. That's unfair... Huh? Yea, it's true. 300,000.00/330,000.00 equals 90%. He paid his 30%, I paid mine, Flat tax is fair. That's just how it comes out when you make Soo much money.
This brings us to consumption tax: The only way Joe Rich can lower his taxes is by getting out of the Income structure (because he makes so much) and get into a consumption. The top 1% (God bless them, Someday, I'll be there) are incapable of spending 90% of the total taxes collected consuming things. There's the catch. The money has to come from somewhere. We'll be the ones to make up for it.
Flat tax, good, fair, equal, etc. Consumption tax, we get screwed. There's no way around it. Republicans want this because they are generally Very wealthy. They've just brainwashed a lot of good people with their mis-leading stats. Sadly, these are the people that will have to make up for all the missing tax revenue that won't be collected. Either that or just throw it on our 530 billion dollar deficit....
Anyway. Here's the story on this "consumption" tax. Basically the top 1% of this nation are EXTREMELY rich. I'm fine with that, wish I was one of them, sometime I hope to be. Anyway, this top 1% controls 1/2 of the Nations TOTAL wealth. Yes, that's how rich they are. Well, they make all this money and are taxed on it at roughly the same rate as everyone else. Let's just say 30%. This is where you get into those stats that the Right wingers like to use that says the top 1% pay 90% of the total taxes. Yea, this is true, they pay their 30%, I pay mine, he just makes a lot more money than me. All is fair.
Example:
Joe Rich makes a million dollars in a year. 30% is 300,000.00.
Joe Poor makes 30,000 in a year. 30% is 10,000
So Total tax revenue collected between the two is 330,000. Now let's throw in mis leading stat that Right wingers likes to say. The rich guy paid 90% of the Taxes. That's unfair... Huh? Yea, it's true. 300,000.00/330,000.00 equals 90%. He paid his 30%, I paid mine, Flat tax is fair. That's just how it comes out when you make Soo much money.
This brings us to consumption tax: The only way Joe Rich can lower his taxes is by getting out of the Income structure (because he makes so much) and get into a consumption. The top 1% (God bless them, Someday, I'll be there) are incapable of spending 90% of the total taxes collected consuming things. There's the catch. The money has to come from somewhere. We'll be the ones to make up for it.
Flat tax, good, fair, equal, etc. Consumption tax, we get screwed. There's no way around it. Republicans want this because they are generally Very wealthy. They've just brainwashed a lot of good people with their mis-leading stats. Sadly, these are the people that will have to make up for all the missing tax revenue that won't be collected. Either that or just throw it on our 530 billion dollar deficit....
The Rich still pay a higher percentage....If you pay 30%...the rich pay 36%....He lower class...(A family of 3 makes 40K and pays ($00.00) in taxes. Try the math in turbo tax) Also....The richer people purchase more expensive things...which with a flat tax means higher taxes paid in...
Honda Accord: 4000 in taxes
Lexus SUV: 8000 in taxes
Ferarri: A lot more
Plus either way....we all pay way more than 36% in taxes....by the time you pay sales tax, income tax, property taxes, taxes on oil, booze and all the other stuff that is bad for you...You are paying over 50% of you income in taxes....and you think that is ok for anyone...
THe problem with Dems...is they consider all payroll deductions as taxes....SS and Medicare is not a tax...although it is treated like one.
Try this experiment...
Turbo tax...the family of 3 (husband and wife both work) and earn about 40K per year....Add 0 for fed taxes withheld...That family will actually get about $1500 back...
Where does this come from...you and me...I am more capable of spending my 1500 dollars than someone else is...so get a grip and look at the entire picture before you spout off about 30%...
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Joined: Mar 2002
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From: NH
Originally posted by BHibbs
a flat tax would be more fair.
a flat tax would be more fair.
If you think about it, not that its completely flawless, but a national sales tax has less possibility of people getting around it since they have to pay it as they buy something, be it clothes or vehicles, or even yachts.
It would be fairer, because those with much less money buy less things so they would pay less then those with a lot of money that buy all the toys, like trailers, boats, and the list goes on…
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 599
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I understand what you're saying XLT and it sounds appealing . To change this and keep all things fair, again see above, the top 1% would have to spend Way Way Way more than they ever could. Unless you somehow put a 20 million dollar tax on a 1 million dollar ferarri or something. It's these ultra rich that will most benefit from a consumption tax. Just because of the sole fact that they make soo much money. Much more than they could spend on toys and such. Again, wish it was me that had that problem..
What's even crazier. Yea the rich are taxed at a higher rate but considering how much we're taxed on our gas, food, city, sales taxes, ciggarettes, etc. Add that all up and it becomes a pretty big percentage of our incomes.
Say Joe Rich And Joe Poor both pay an addtional 5,000.00 in these extra taxes. That's 16% of Joe Poors income (making 30,000 a year). BUT That's only .0005 % of Joe riches income (making a million a year).
It's true, You and I end up paying probably 50% at least of our total income a year in taxes. But don't make it out that Joe millionaire is paying the same %50 because it's just not true.
Again, I just want to keep things fair. Right now it doesn't seem that way. Focusing on the 37% the rich pay and the 34% the rest pay is pretty deceiving. Again, a typical Republican ploy to deceive the public and get Joe Poor to pay even MORE taxes.
That's not even considering all the loopholes and Accounting tricks the ultra rich use. You've got an owner of a 600 Billion dollar company claiming only a couple million a year in income...
What's even crazier. Yea the rich are taxed at a higher rate but considering how much we're taxed on our gas, food, city, sales taxes, ciggarettes, etc. Add that all up and it becomes a pretty big percentage of our incomes.
Say Joe Rich And Joe Poor both pay an addtional 5,000.00 in these extra taxes. That's 16% of Joe Poors income (making 30,000 a year). BUT That's only .0005 % of Joe riches income (making a million a year).
It's true, You and I end up paying probably 50% at least of our total income a year in taxes. But don't make it out that Joe millionaire is paying the same %50 because it's just not true.
Again, I just want to keep things fair. Right now it doesn't seem that way. Focusing on the 37% the rich pay and the 34% the rest pay is pretty deceiving. Again, a typical Republican ploy to deceive the public and get Joe Poor to pay even MORE taxes.
That's not even considering all the loopholes and Accounting tricks the ultra rich use. You've got an owner of a 600 Billion dollar company claiming only a couple million a year in income...
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 691
Likes: 1
From: Gulf Coast
BHibbs--
I see where you are coming from, but the other side of that is the small business owner who through accounting is making so little that no taxes can be collected. I've seen a few of them who are living very well and they do not pay taxes due to the way accounting is carried out. It would also allow taxes to be collected on items like cars that people purchase for a company to lower the taxable income. Items not for resale would be taxed and those resold would not, this way the dreded VAT tax is avoided.
The tax would not neccessarily be hitting the richest the hardest, it would hit the hyperconsumer the hardest. This would also discourage the purchase of overly expensive luxury items unless you actually had the money to pay for the tax.
By encoraging savings the result would be a country of financially well off people. Most likely resulting in more spending and more taxes collected.
I see where you are coming from, but the other side of that is the small business owner who through accounting is making so little that no taxes can be collected. I've seen a few of them who are living very well and they do not pay taxes due to the way accounting is carried out. It would also allow taxes to be collected on items like cars that people purchase for a company to lower the taxable income. Items not for resale would be taxed and those resold would not, this way the dreded VAT tax is avoided.
The tax would not neccessarily be hitting the richest the hardest, it would hit the hyperconsumer the hardest. This would also discourage the purchase of overly expensive luxury items unless you actually had the money to pay for the tax.
By encoraging savings the result would be a country of financially well off people. Most likely resulting in more spending and more taxes collected.