Who do we have to perform air superiority against? Moreover the JSF is more than a match for anything any airforce in the world is currently fielding. Do we really need a plane that costs $100 million a copy?

Do we need to spend billions of dollars for a missile defense system that hasn't been able to hit the broad side of a barn to defend against enemies that are far more likely to drive a bomb into Manhattan than to fire a missile at us? Do we need to spend this money when our enemies have made it clear that if we succeed, they will simply build more warheads until they can overwhelm our defenses? Is further nuclear proloferation really the answer?

No doubt about it, the B52 was a great deal and still is. Seriously though, do we still need to field 18 Ohio class SSBN's?

-Don

 

You have NOT done your research on aircraft, you to easily discount the capabilities of aircraft such as the MiG-29 Fulcrum and my personal favorite, the Su-27 Flanker, I think that you're description of the JSF being "more than a match" is a little off. Air combat also is in a way like drag racing, comes down to the driver (pilot) training.



Are you sure that's how many we have? , maybe Uncle Sam is deseptive in his true number of subs <--Humor intended in this statement

 

The Mig-29 uses variable sweep wings that are manually controlled by the pilot. The F14 uses variable sweep wings which are continously optimized for peak aircraft performance by an onboard computer.

The Mig-29 was designed in 1972. It has no stealth technology, has inferior radar to the F14 and inferior missile systems.

The Su-27 was also designed in the 1970's. It also lacks any stealth capability. Though it has a good radar system and a high thrust to weight ratio, it is no where near as advanced as the JSF. (I think the Su-33 is a better plane though it is really just a descendant of the Su-27).

Are these the planes I am supposed to be worried about?

The JSF is a stealth aircraft. It has supercruise capability while still being extremely manuverable. It has some of the most advanced radar and weapons systems in the world.

Air combat is all about training. Our pilots have the best training in the world. The superiority of our pilots and planes was proved quite thoroughly in both Gulf wars.

According to: http://www.nrdc.org/nuclear/nudb/datab5.asp we have 18 active Ohio Class SSBN's.

-Don

 

I agree, but like I said it is a federal court mandate, we have no choice in the matter. Let me take that back we do have a choice and that is to buy houses for minorities in areas they cannot afford to live and give them the houses. I only say minority because this is a race issue and not an economic one. When my kid was riding the bus there were a total of five kids on it. This is one of the 44 passenger busses. It seemed like a waste of money to transport this few kids on a huge bus. The answer the residents get from the school board is we'll fix it next year.

I agree, getting rid of the elected officials who are not serving the best interest of our kids is a good idea. However wholesale electing new people won't solve the problem either. Think about it, this election we get a new county commission and a new school board, it will be more screwed up than it already is.

This is the equal to saying I know many women who can kick the snot out of a man. Yes it does happen, but overall it is not the norm. Look at the statistics put out by the federal government. Private schools on average do a better job of educating childeren than public schools. All while spending less money per child.

The last time I checked a union, outside the northeast, can only unionize one business at a time. They can't organize The Home Depot and BAM they are in all home centers. The northeast is different, because unions are well established up there. I does help that the unions did have the assistance of organized crime in many of the larger northern cities, like New York, Chicago, and Detroit.

The vouchers help solve the problem by giving more people more chioces. It is a simple theoryof the capitalist society and the reason no private company can form a monopoly, competition breeds excellance. If the public schools are doing a poor job then the students will go to a private school. If they are going a good job then the students will go to the public schools.

As far as teaches flocking to a good public school, I think most school systems are set up where the school board tells the teachers where to go. Yes the teachers probbably can request a certain school, but ultimately it is the school board who assigns them to a school.

The good thing about private schools is that you don't have a right to go there. If you are not going along with the program, cna you say good bye. The private school I went to for a couple of years was relatively tolerant of poor behavior, but certain rules were not to be broken and would result in immediate expulsion.

If you are concerned about why the teachers at a private school teach ask them. They'll probably tell you something along the lines of I do it because I like kids or want to effect the future. They do not do it for the money. Here's a quick question about money making jobs. Would you take a job that pays less than the national average for jobs, requires you to work odd hours, which result in poor eating habits. Requires you to take verbal abuse. Winds up making the majority of people hate you, just for what you do and puts you on edge when you out with you family. Sounds fun doesn't it. That is the life of Police Officers, and I love it. You don't make squat but it's a fun job. I work with an ex-NYPD officer, he was saying the police up there get the same pay as the garbagemen.

I hate to tell you this but, unless you are a union wroker, you are an at will employee. At will employees have no guarntee of a job and can be fired for just about anything. Many people do it, you just get used to it.



You are right. I have suggested an idea (on another post), but instead of think how to make it work you shot it down do you have a way that will hold the teachers feet to the fire. It is the teachers who teach not the school.

 

I try to stay out of political threads, but I have to put in a few words.
Sex is sex!! Oral or otherwise, 1/2 ounce of common sense. And he knew that, he blatently lied. If he had fessed up at the start, it would of been a huge story for a few weeks, then died out.
School vouchers are a good idea. Don claims he doesnt want "his" tax dollars spent on sending MY child to private shcool. How about my taxes? I pay my taxes (for YOUR child to go to school), PLUS I pay the private school for my child. How about your friends that "didn't get the same education" as others in public school? What school did they attend? Most private schools are well above the public schools in the same area. And as far as paying taxes to send a child to a HATE school?? Compare apples to apples, your comparing Christian schools to that??? Your desperatly trying to make your point the only one, and in the process have lost all crediblity with me.

 

I think you typed the wrong plane in the Google search, because that is STILL wrong. The MiG-29 does NOT have variable sweeping wings, and had NEVER had such in the 29 series. Here is a pic for clarification:




You state this as if age=inferior design, like it is an absolute. Have you ever seen the SR-71? Pretty old plane that STILL holds records that are unbeaten today in speed. (Go ahead, check your current Guiness Book of World Records.)( http://www.wvi.com/~lelandh/srrcd~1.htm) The fact that the MiG was developed in 1972 is irrelevant. The F-16 was first PRODUCED in 1978, and is still one of the most agile and deadly fighters in the sky.

Don't be so arrogant to quickly disregard you adversaries capabilities, I think you will find that is where trouble begins. these planes you mock are more potent than you believe..

 

This has got to be the most civil political thread I've ever read. The only thing that has really bothered me is Don's defense of the "oral sex is not "sex"" statement. I think the wording is what is so confusing here. I would agree that oral sex does not equal sexual intercourse (which is what I think Don means when he uses the word "sex" by itself). However, oral sex does equal sex or else it wouldn't have the word "sex" in the description. Oral sex is a TYPE of sex.

To say that oral sex is not sex would be like saying that the color "sky blue" is not "blue" because in your mind "blue" equals "dark blue" (which may be the case for all those Cameron Crazies on Tobacco Road!)

So in all honesty it does come down to a play on words based on the definition that you have given a particular word (Sex doesn't equal "sex", blue doesn't equal "blue"). I think what bothered me the most was that Clinton intentionally used this tactic which to me said, "IN YOUR FACE AMERICAN CITIZEN" and "oh no, LEGALLY I didn't lie to you American citizen". You could never convince me in a million years that it wasn't done intentionally either, they are both lawyers surrounded by lawyers (nuff said).

He said that he "did not have sexual relations with that girl". Later when the scandal broke he obviously meant that he did not have sexual intercourse but decided to use the word "relations" to relay that information. Now while stating things clearly is not a common trait of any politician on either side of the fence, doing it so blatantly in my face really burned me up.

chknbone

 

Way to many topics for a supposed truce thread
First, how about the flipside. You think religious people want their tax dollars going to public schools?

Can't vouch for this all over the country, but my school and all my friends that went to religious schools were stuck in there for between 1 to 1 1/2 hours longer then any public schools in the area.

Were the educations better, hard to say because it depended on the student and whether they wanted to learn or not. But there was way more parental involvment in the private schools around here then the public schools.


But I'm going to have agree with sirket here to a point on this issues. I don't think school vouchers are they way to go, it strikes me as something to be abused.

I am for tax breaks for those who do choose to send their kids to privates schools.

What I see that needs to be changed is

• More parental involvment.
• Bad teachers need to go.
• School boards need to be minimized and the money saved from there can go to things such as school maintance, new courses, supplies that teachers have to pay out of their pockets, etc.

 

yah, I was thinking the same thing myself.
What the heck, It's a damn interesting read. I love the way these threads evolve sometimes.
Keep it up, kids

 

Well put Captian, you have stated the .. whats it called, when something is totaly in view, and very easy too see..... Oh well, it will probably come to me later.

Hak

 

I am with you there my friend I absolutely agree with you. It is the most ridiculous social program to date. There were some, not a large amount, but a small amount of seniors that have problems paying for their medical prescriptions.

That small group should have been targeted if that is what was needed. Now they lump in all the seniors into a big group and they will end up actually paying more in the long run. Don’t seem to make sense but that is what I have read to date on it and yet it is going to cost a HUGE amount of money.

I am sorry but if there are seniors out there that have a yearly income of over say $60,000 they do not need any hand outs from the government, give them a discount on some things fine, but not the programs that are needed for many seniors with a yearly income of less then $12,000

If grandma has to choose between eating and prescription drugs then I have no problem sending in my taxes to help her out. However if grandma has to choose between going on an ocean cruise or prescription drugs then sorry she does NOT get a choice…

You continue to be frighten it seems by how simple the economy actually is. It is not as complicated as you would like to wish it would be. It is not as simple as I make it out but there are some very simple lessons that should be common sense since they have been proven time and time again as follows:

Cut taxes, it provides for more growth in the economy, ONLY if ALL taxes are cut including the RICH who are the ones providing jobs.

Raise taxes and it prohibits the economy from growing because it chokes off the cash flow needed to create jobs.

The Clinton recession was proof of that. Nothing happens over night, within weeks or within months, it takes years sometimes. Clintons failed economics is what created the Clinton recession in which over 2 million people lost their jobs (yes while Bush was President) but due to Clinton tax HIKES…

Now we have had a few tax cuts and guess what? The economy is growing very well, just like it did when President Kennedy cut taxes and just like when President Reagan cut taxes.

We have over 40 years of proof of the above examples I gave so there is no need for a link to web sites or anything else, it is there for all to see…

As many as our professional believe is necessary. The reason America has far more superiority in the skies against any nation is not because of the absolutely best aircraft in the world but the TRAINING, we are the only country that continually uses our actual equipment for combat to train in. Thus it wears out and needs to be replaced to maintain top condition.

While it needs to be replaced new technology is developed and then designed into the next generation of aircraft.

The question you ask would be like asking everyone here why Ford had to change anything in the automobile since its invention. Nothing has really changed fundamentally, you start the motor, press the gas pedal and it goes, press the brake pedal and it stops.

However, new technology has made today’s automobiles much more safe and capable of doing more as in towing and how much cargo they can carry but nothing fundamentally has changed, you still start it and use a gas pedal and brake pedal.

 

I said I don't my tax dollars going to a religious school, not a private school.

I have also said that school vouchers won't solve any of the problems in our system and will introduce just as many more.

You wouldn't feel any better about your tax dollars going to a Jewish school or a Muslim school. This country was founded on the seperation of Church and State. If you want to do away with public education entirely, be my guest. But you don't get to take my tax dollars and spend them on a religious education. That is tantamount to my preaching Christianity which I will not do.

If I cared about credibility with you I would need to kill myself. The only person whose opinion matters is your own.

-Don

 

If I had typed it into Google don't you think perhaps I would have kept the planes straight? Just for the record I was thinking of the Mig-23 and the later Mig-27which entered service in the 70's and both had variable sweep wings.

I live in NYC and have been just a few feet from an SR-71 on the Intrepid.

It's pretty easy to design something that only goes fast. What made the SR71 unique was the fact that it was also a stealth aircraft, had highly efficient engines, and was capable of operating at altitudes of 100k feet.

And yet the JSF is replacing the F16. My argument was only that the JSF is more than advanced enough to handle any of the current airplanes in the world and that spending astounding sums of money on the F-22 perhaps isn't money well spent. Do I think the F-22 is cool? Hell yes. Do I think we need it? No I don't.

If you think I am mocking these planes then you are sadly mistaken. What I have little respect for is the air combat training in countries like Iran and Iraq.

-Don

 

All I meant to say was that if you asked me if I had sex with someone who gave me a blow job, I would have said no. Not because I was trying to hide anything, but simply because I would have assumed we meant two different things.

Now Clinton? He was being a smartass and knew perfectly well he was being a smartass.

That said, I think this country had better things to do than worry about the sex life of our president

-Don

 

And yes, I would feel the same. Christian, Jewish, whatever... As long as it it not teaching HATE and violence. I do not expect the goverment to pay for my son to go to a private Christian school, but I am also paying for public school, so wheres the compromise?
If you dont want to send your children to a private school, that is your choice. But MY choice is to do so, as with a growing number that feel the same. I agree that the voucher system needs some tweaking, maybe just make tution to a private school tax-deductable is the awnser.

Hak