Bill,

Heard about that today.
US Government and British Government know for a long time where WMD's were hidden.
Why keep quiet about it!!

"Nizar Najoef, a Syrian journalist who recently defected from Syria to Western Europe and is known for bravely challenging the Syrian regime, said in a letter Monday, January 5, to Dutch newspaper “Di Telegraaf,” that he knows the three sites where Iraq’s WMD are kept."

BTW It's "De Telegraaf" not Di Telegraaf.

 

Hey CJ:

As I have said a few times earlier, I have no idea how much truth there is on that site and how much is propaganda and or dis-information but they are still in the 80th percentile in being correct on the issues that I have followed there.

I rarely download or bookmark this sort of stuff but over many months these folks have provided details, maps and even a satellite photo or three of what they say are exactly the locations of the stuff.

Since I never did buy into the whole WMD rationale as the exclusive reason for going into Iraq, I have no personal stake in the outcome but it is sure interesting to follow the story. As an individual I do not believe that Saddam did not possess this stuff but I can certainly believe that his buddy Assad may have even long ago agreed to store the stuff in his deserts or areas that he controls in Lebanon. No conspiracy theory buff am I, but I am old enough, I have been around the block enough times and I have read some really good history (true stuff) about how governments operate in times of trouble including my own country.

As to what my government knows or does not know, I could accept that maybe they do know where it is but cannot get enough international support to throw over yet another Middle East Dictator. Syria and Lebanon are not any less sovereign nations than Iraq was and I am not sure we have the political will to do this twice again. Besides, being buried somewhere in the middle of a God forsaken desert may be the best place for the stuff for the time being. They sure as hell aren't going to try to use it.

Bill

 

well said, hopefully if it is out there "somebody else" doesn't get their hands on it. I'm sure it would take a fairly sizable and well equiped group to handle stuff like that.

 

Viper:

It is almost too bizzare to contemplate but let us assume we do know where it is and the aforementioned impediments make it impossible for us to physically go and get it.

If that should prove to be true, we know where it is, I would have to bet that that is the most totally monitored/photographed/satellite beamed piece of real estate on the planet.
Bill

 

I don't buy it.

Why?

With all of the needless deaths of American soldiers, the capture of Saddam could have demoralized the Iraqi terrorists and boosted American GI morale.

The smartest thing would have been to tell the whole world that you found him.

 

I would have to agree with that. The WMD's are very dangerous and it would only take one person to go in and get some to hand deliver to someone else. If we really knew where they were at we would simply go in and get them.

If we knew for a fact then there would be no reason to get anyone’s permission since after the fact it wouldn’t really matter because we would have the WMD’s and would have proved our point.

The WMD’s will be found in time, they had them and they are “somewhere” they didn’t just disappear, they are hiding and one day will be found.

 

J-150:

Part of what I was sort of getting at is that there are and always have been things going on that we are not going to be told about.

Amongst other things and i am referring here to the theory that the Kurds had Saddam several weeks before we got him, our relationship with the Kurds is a very, very complicated.
In a sense, they are not Iraqis any more than they are not Turks nor Iranians. They are Kurds as far as they are concerned and their homelands happened to get partioned between three countries courtesy mainly of the British some 80 or so years ago.

They have been allies of convenience of ours for some time, in the same way that we were allied with Iran and then Iraq in the not so distant past. They don't like being pushed around, not by the earlier mentioned countries nor by the Americans. And, they have been under a sort of sem-autonomous form of government even under Saddam. The Iraqis didn't like to screw with these guys either.

Point I am trying to make is that they very well could have captured Saddam some time ago and kept him as well hidden as when we found him. Think about the chances of that one Army type just happening to notice the covering over the spider hole at a run down farm house. That to me is far fetched. Someone told us exactly where he was I would be willing to bet.

I would further not be surprised that we were aware that the Kurds captured him and there was basically nothing we could do about it except negotiate. It's their "hood" guys and they know every square inch of it and everyone in it. If you have never been involved in a tribal environment it is hard to understand but it is one hell of a lot different than what we are used to dealing with. I'm not trying to put on any airs but when I lived in Peru and had to do business in the jungle and the mountains I learned that you don't need phones, fax machines and what not to have a communications net. Many times I felt the locals knew what I was going to do before I had decided to do it.

Anyway, this is a very interesting thread and I hope we can keep it going and keep it civil. I like this sort of exchange.
Bill

 

Yes, the Dates on the trees gave it away.

The same thing happened when the sound mike appeared over Neil Armstrongs' head and the landscape never changed.

I mean a man walking on the Moon, ...puhleeze!!

 

See, Raoul knows. There are things they will not tell us about until after we die.

Reminds me, I read somewhere that they are going to put the moonwalk soundstage on EBay on the 100th anniversary of the event.

Gonna take a lot of Euros to buy that puppy.

BTW someone needs to tell Webmaster that the site is puking a lot today. Got knocked off about a dozen times.
Bill

 

This is a fact!
I faked my own death just so I would finally be told the truth about things on this Earth. It was fascinating. If you only knew.

(I was debriefed by Elvis. He has been working for 7-Eleven these past 26 years, is now in management and has never been happier)

 

(I was debriefed by Elvis. He has been working for 7-Eleven these past 26 years, is now in management and has never been happier) [/B][/QUOTE]


and here I thought he was a policy advisor for Bubbya and had changed his name to Karl Rove...

 

I'll just mention a few of Southland Corporations advertising slogans over the years and rest my case.

You Ain't Nothin But A Hotdog
Love Me Some Chicken Tenders
Blue Suade Slurpee
Return to Vendor, date has expired
I Did It, Milky Way
(7-Eleven) In The Ghetto

 

Raoul:

Blew your cover dude.

I always wondered how you got accepted into the CPU which is so hush hush the government doesn't even admit it's existence.

I tried really hard to get in, a former girlfriend had something on another CPU operative and got me the application, and tried really hard to sell them on the concept that I was a totally unique candidate in that I speak read and write Swedish, Norwegian, Danish and Icelandic.

I never did accept the reason for being turned down which was so dumb. "Mr Murray, we never have nor do we ever intend to enter into any sort of armed conflict with the countries you mention. Further, none of them have the resources to enter into any sort of armed conflict with anyone else except themselves and that scenario does not presently interest us".

Now I know I should have declared myself dead, reinvented my persona and my CV and come back as a rock star or a comedian.
By the way, is it true that Charlton Heston is a CPUer?
Bill

 

Bill Murray:

You very well could be right about the WMD’s being somewhere else, and I’ll also agree there are many things the government never tells us, even years later (regardless who is in control of the White House).

However, I personal have a hard time believing, not impossible, but a hard time believing we would have knowledge of where the WMD’s are at, even if buried in the desert somewhere and not go get them in some manner, be it a covert operation and doing with them as they wish. That could be bringing them back into Iraq and broadcasting “We have found them” or destroying them in place.

It is just to dangerous a situation to leave something like that with as much damage as they could do here in America and just sitting on the information and not acting. Sure there could be satellites watching the area but unless it was completely guarded by our armed forces someone, in one way or another get to them and we may never know.

To me it would be like us knowing there is a nuke buried in Mexico with a very possible chance a terrorist is going to bring it across the boarder without us knowing. I would be willing to bet, regardless what Mexico may say, that we would one way or the other go in and get it rather then wait and “hope” nothing would happen.

As I said, you very well could be correct since I have absolutely no idea but it sure seems extremely risky for America to knowingly leave something that dangerous to get into terriost hands. We do know Iraq has or had WMD’s and the whole free world has agreed with us on that, at least all those associated with the United Nations, now its just a matter of time until they are found, or to find out what actually happen to them…

 

Evening Burt:

I totally agree with you that in a perfect world we would act exactly as you suggest.

The world is not perfect and global politics are even less so.

It is the acceptance of that which I have seen, read and experienced that could lead me to at least consider that we know where that stuff is and we have decided for any number of reasons to not act overtly to recover the WMD materiels.

Please understand here that I am operating on the hypothesis that the Debka File folks could be correct. Hell, Burt, there is no way someone is actually going to provide to me, for example, absolute proof that we know where it is and are not telling the public.

Following the logic, if I can even use that word, of my thought process it is also entirely possible that there are American Special Forces troops, CIA operatives and perhaps even scientists who are baby sitting these one or more sites. As far fetched as that may sound, this type of thing has happened before. Assad is getting very far out on a very big lake of very thin ice and for my part I could accept that he would be willing to accept the presence of foreign troops on his soil as long as we kept the thing under wraps. At some point in time it would get sorted out and nobody got hurt or invaded.

Let me give you a sort of an analogy and if there are any law enforcement types on this thread I will bet serious money they will back me up. When I used to be a Police officer, some of my best buddies were undercover types. They infiltrated a wide range of biker gangs, drug gangs, street gangs, you name it.
They could provide a complete blueprint of how the operations worked but due to the mechanics of our legal system they were for a very large part unable to obtain search warrants and other necessary legal niceties to be able to put the slugs away. The general public was never made aware of this.

Geopolitics, at least in my experience, is even more of a maze than any one country's legal system. The rules are rarely written down but most everyone knows how the game is played. In this context, I do give credit to #43 insofar as he and Tony Blair have broken a lot of these unwritten rules. At some point in time, however, we have to take into account all of the factors that are involved in what we are doing just now.

You, and others, may disagree with me but it is my personal opinion that Superpower that we are it does not serve us well to **** off almost the entire rest of the world by not at least paying lip service to "the rules of the game".

Please don't take my remarks out of context, but if we want to take over the world then we had better get on with it and damn the consequenses. If we wish to incrementally make the world a better place it would be my judgement we are going to have to play by some of the rules no matter how disgusting we find them and try to get a fair number of "player" countries either behind us or at least not obstructing us.

I am really on our side, Burt, but I think of myself as a realist and it is a really complicated world out there.
Bill