00XLSport,

Here's a classic example of how the media reports things in a way that is geared more toward shock value than actual reporting. I felt the same way that you do over the coffee lawsuit until one day I saw an interview with the grand-daughter of the woman that was burned. It went something like this:

Grand-daughter and Granny go to get coffee at McDonalds. Granny puts the cup on the dash and Grand-daughter pulls off spilling the coffee in Granny's lap (their fault completely). Granny ends up with SERIOUS burns in her lap including her private area and has to eventually undergo skin graft surgery. Granny tells the McDonalds of her experience and asks/suggest that they serve the coffee at a safer temperature and to help pay for her medical expenses. McDonalds basically says "no" people like hot coffee and we're not helping in anyway. So the Grand-daughter gets mad and talks Granny into suing McDonalds for serving coffee that hot (not for the spilling). One of the biggest things that helped them win was when McDonald's attorneys tried to show how insignificant the number of people injured in the overall picture was. (it was something like 12 reported injuries for every 100,000 people served). The jury saw it as just the opposite. They saw it as "you know that you're causing injuries with this temperature and you still continue to do it?". So Granny won.

I'm not saying that fat people suing fast food isn't dumb and I'm not saying that suing a casino because you gambled all your money away isn't dumb either. I hate trivial law suits as much as anybody, but I always remember this interview when I see some "outlandish" law suit being reported.

chknbone

 

Here's my take on this for what little it's worth.

I too have read of the interview. BUT, bottom line is coffee is brewed to a near boil, that's where it gets it's taste. It is not an ice cream cone. Put it somewhere that it won't spill on you. I had an Aunt, who at 85, boiled up a pot of grits and promptly spilled them on herself, she then slipped in them, and fell face first in the pot and the remaining grits on the floor. She ended up in the hospital with severe burns over her legs, and scalp. Several skin grafts later, she died of a heart attack. Wonder if we should have sued Quaker Grits, RevereWare pots, and General Electic stoves because all their products got too hot for her skin to touch. DUH!!!

That was still a frivolous lawsuit regardless of the intent of the woman burned or the miserable attitude of McDonald's.
I know, obviously those jurors saw something I didn't. I wasn't there, so it's all conjecture on my part.

 

Stella Liebeck, 79 years old, was sitting in the passenger seat of her grandson’s car having purchased a cup of McDonald’s coffee. After the car stopped, she tried to hold the cup securely between her knees while removing the lid. However, the cup tipped over, pouring scalding hot coffee onto her. She received third-degree burns over 16 percent of her body, necessitating hospitalization for eight days, whirlpool treatment for debridement of her wounds, skin grafting, scarring, and disability for more than two years. Morgan, The Recorder, September 30, 1994. Despite these extensive injuries, she offered to settle with McDonald’s for $20,000. However, McDonald’s refused to settle. The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages -- reduced to $160,000 because the jury found her 20 percent at fault -- and $2.7 million in punitive damages for McDonald’s callous conduct. (To put this in perspective, McDonald's revenue from coffee sales alone is in excess of $1.3 million a day.) The trial judge reduced the punitive damages to $480,000. Subsequently, the parties entered a post-verdict settlement. According to Stella Liebeck’s attorney, S. Reed Morgan, the jury heard the following evidence in the case:

By corporate specifications, McDonald's sells its coffee at 180 to 190 degrees Fahrenheit;

Coffee at that temperature, if spilled, causes third-degree burns (the skin is burned away down to the muscle/fatty-tissue layer) in two to seven seconds;

Third-degree burns do not heal without skin grafting, debridement and whirlpool treatments that cost tens of thousands of dollars and result in permanent disfigurement, extreme pain and disability of the victim for many months, and in some cases, years;

The chairman of the department of mechanical engineering and bio-mechanical engineering at the University of Texas testified that this risk of harm is unacceptable, as did a widely recognized expert on burns, the editor in chief of the leading scholarly publication in the specialty, the Journal of Burn Care and Rehabilitation;

McDonald's admitted that it has known about the risk of serious burns from its scalding hot coffee for more than 10 years -- the risk was brought to its attention through numerous other claims and suits, to no avail;

From 1982 to 1992, McDonald's coffee burned more than 700 people, many receiving severe burns to the genital area, perineum, inner thighs, and buttocks;

Not only men and women, but also children and infants, have been burned by McDonald's scalding hot coffee, in some instances due to inadvertent spillage by McDonald's employees;

At least one woman had coffee dropped in her lap through the service window, causing third-degree burns to her inner thighs and other sensitive areas, which resulted in disability for years;

Witnesses for McDonald's admitted in court that consumers are unaware of the extent of the risk of serious burns from spilled coffee served at McDonald's required temperature;

McDonald's admitted that it did not warn customers of the nature and extent of this risk and could offer no explanation as to why it did not;

McDonald's witnesses testified that it did not intend to turn down the heat -- As one witness put it: “No, there is no current plan to change the procedure that we're using in that regard right now;”

McDonald's admitted that its coffee is “not fit for consumption” when sold because it causes severe scalds if spilled or drunk;

Liebeck's treating physician testified that her injury was one of the worst scald burns he had ever seen.

Morgan, The Recorder, September 30, 1994. Moreover, the Shriner’s Burn Institute in Cincinnati had published warnings to the franchise food industry that its members were unnecessarily causing serious scald burns by serving beverages above 130 degrees Fahrenheit.

In refusing to grant a new trial in the case, Judge Robert Scott called McDonald's behavior “callous.” Moreover, “the day after the verdict, the news media documented that coffee at the McDonald's in Albuquerque [where Liebeck was burned] is now sold at 158 degrees. This will cause third-degree burns in about 60 seconds, rather than in two to seven seconds [so that], the margin of safety has been increased as a direct consequence of this verdict.” Id.

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Comment....

I'd bet that a 79 year old woman would never have expected to make $160,000.00 with her vagina.

 

I won't quote you Odin, but that comment was
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pretty funny LMAO!

 

Bottom line of the episode of this dumb old lady is it was COMPLETELY her own fault, not McDonalds or anyone else’s. It was her own stupidity that put her in the situation she had.

Sure it sucks that she had the pain and had to go through all the treatment etc, but that doesn’t matter, it was 100% completely her fault and NO one else’s.

McDonalds should have offered her a FREE happy meal and then the old bitch should have jumped for joy getting something free for her stupidity. I don’t get these stupid lawsuits brought by morons that should probably be locked inside their house, padded with foam walls for their own protection.

EVERYBODY, at least 18 and above know coffee is HOT, always has been and always will be. She should have been ordered to pay back every penny it cost for the entire court cost. I do NOT like giving my money to such boneheads…

 

okay


but why the heck was it between her knees?

What the frig are cupholders for? And if you dont have them you shouldnt be holding a drink in a moving vehicle. This is unsafe with the potential for greater harm than the coffee itself!


Idiots!


Its like George Carlin says... "think of how smart the average person is and realize that half of the population is dumber than that!"

 

J-150,

Did you watch Global tonight?
They interviewed "Gabe" on the news, and he was saying how Casino Niagara took advantage of him, and blah blah blah.

At the end, the reporter asks (almost sheepishly) "but some people would say personal responsibility should come into play here"
Gabe says how he was an addict and the casino took advantage of him.

Honest to goodness, I am so freaking fed up with people blaming everyone else for their woes.
This right here is the essence of what's wrong with our 2 countries (Canada & USA)
The greedy lawyers need a biatch-slappin as well for always trying to sheister people out of their money.

Gabe, if you own an F150, and you happen to be reading this, I have this to say to you:

yeah man, sorry you're a dumbass, and so sad you lost a million bucks at the tables, and it's sad that you lost your 100,000K job because you were a gambling retard, but you know what Gabe?
NOBODY PUT A GUN TO YOUR HEAD!

Obviously you knew you had a problem before you lost a million, what were you thinking when you were down 400,000? How about 600,000? It took a million dollars for you to figure it out?

I love going to the casino, and when I lose more than I planned for, well sometimes it stings like heck, but I don't blame anyone for my own stupidity but myself, and believe me, I've done some incredibly stupid things.

"shaking head"

Will the insanity ever end?

 

hey, Gabe lived high on the hog for years....

jetsetting around the world collecting his six figure salary... have you seen the house he lives in?

I dont feel sorry one bit.

 

Does Gaber bitch about the government taken advantage of him and TAKING a lot of his money???

Wonder if ol’ Gaber is going to sue the government next?

 

I completely agree that spilling it was totally her fault. There's no way to get around that. I don't think that the suit was about who's fault it was that the coffee spilled. It was about McDonald's practice of continuing to serve coffee at such an extreme temperature knowing that others had been severely burned. I don't drink coffee but do people really expect their coffee to be THAT hot? Does a Mr. Coffee machine make it that hot at home? (I'm seriously asking because I have no idea). If coffee is routinely made and served that hot at home and in restaurants then maybe she should of expected 3rd degree burns in 2 to 7 seconds and thought ahead. Granted she should of thought ahead anyway, but who among us has never spilled anything? I "think ahead" a lot differently when I have a cup of water that might spill in the truck as opposed to the way I "think ahead" when my four year old brings in the chocolate milk.

chknbone

PS - I realize that my opinion no longer holds any weight considering how wrong I remembered the interview (grand-daughter, cup on dash, etc, etc)

 

Whether the coffee is 40 degrees or 400 degrees, you don't want it in your lap, and if it lands there through fault of your own, then admit it and stop whinning about it. Regardless of the temperature of the coffee, it wasn't McDonald's fault she was burned, no more than it's Stihl's fault when the chainsaw you are using cuts off your leg. The intended use of the coffee was to drink it, not spill it all over yourself. If you sip it and it's too hot, you wait a moment or two for it to cool enough to try and sip it again. I'm surprised the government hasn't regulated coffee cups so they contain a message to users. WARNING: The Surgeon General of the United States has confirmed that if and when the contents of this cup is spilled on your vagina or ***** it may cause pain and scarring that will require medical attention. Please do not operate heavy equipment while spilling.

Hey, Chknbone, our opinions carry the same amount of weight. That's the nice thing about this board, we are all welcome to our opinions and may express them freely here.

 

LOL. Good one.
I belong to the "responsablity for ones action" group.
but I wonder: Being that the intended use is to drink it, then why isn't the coffee served at a 'drinkable' temperature in the first place? According to most people that get it, they can't even drink it right away. What good is that? The coffee I make at home in my percolator is drinkable right away.

I work in my Truck, and I drink coffee while working, and I like it hot, but if I can't begin drinking it when I get it, then by the time I remember to drink it, it's cold. I don't get coffee at Mcdonalds (and a few other places) for this reason. Not only that, other Truck drivers also know this, and don't get coffee there because of it. One might even say that because it is such a widely known fact, that she should know how notoriously hot it was, in addition to having the common sense not to spill it.

Still from every point of view, the coffeee should be a drinkable temp when it is served. McDonalds should just fix it.

 

Is this stupid old lady the reason McDonalds and Burger King’s food is so damn COLD when we buy it now? I mean it sure is NOT hot and fresh. I have yet to be burned by a hamburger or fries…

Stupid old lady, no wonder we get crap food from these places now…

 

No, 01, the actual food (if you must call it that) is always cold and tasteless. If you want hot food from such a place learn the rules:
For hot fries, request "Fries with no salt" When you get to the pick up window, ask for salt in a packet.
For hot hamburgers, or other such things, request them with "no ketchup (or other condiment you know they automatically add)" again when you get to the pick up window, ask for the condiment you had them omit in a packet.
What this does is force them to make you a special one. the 'special' one will be hot and fresh.

Sheeesh, I hate that junk, but even I know how to order it!

 

I'm part of the "responsible for one's actions" group too. The thing that makes this different to me is the likelihood of the general public to "know" or "reasonably expect" how dangerous the temp of the coffee was.

You pick up a chainsaw - the general public looks at it and should reasonably be expected to think "wow this thing could cut my leg off"

Your kid gets a skateboard - the general public should reasonably be expected to be able to look at it and know that it doesn't have brakes. (An actual case according to my old high school teacher. I hope they lost)

You get a cup of coffee - the general public should reasonably be expected to know that coffee is served hot and it can burn you. I don't think that the general public thinks that it's "disfigure your child for life in 3 to 7 seconds" hot. Even if you were to take a sip and burn your mouth (like eating stuff right off of the grill ) you don't reasonably think it's hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns in 3 to 7 seconds. McDonalds KNEW it was that hot. They KNEW the types of injuries that were caused from it. And they did NOTHING to correct it.

I expect McDonald's to be responsible for their actions just as I expect the old lady to be responsible for hers. And to me, their action was to continually serve the coffee at a truly unreasonable temperature without warning anyone. I know, I know, I hate most of those "stupid stickers" too like "Do not operate this chainsaw under the influence of drugs. Severe injury or death could occur." but in this one case I think it warranted at least SOME kind of warning like, "Warning: Coffee is EXTREMELY hot and may cause SERIOUS burns if spilled" (Of course they would probably put this on the bottom of the cup )


chknbone


PS - I'll shut up now