I agree, and I said something similar in my email. The Ford dealer is trying to get out of a warranty repair. Since the 6.0L induction they have been plagued with repairs and some dealers are taking it in the shorts for these repairs. Hence many are trying whatever they can to get out of these repairs. If you walk in and pay for it they'll get right to it, but under warranty thats another issue. You can try another dealer, but if this entry has gone into the Oasis system you could be SOL for every dealer out there. Given their reaction when you told them you were unknowingly sold red diesel tells me this is not a good service department. Now I could see a reaction like that if you were knowingly running it (though at this point nothing wrong with doing so), but the fact that they are unsympathetic would be reason enough to find a different dealership.

 

Thanks to everyone for taking your valuable time to share you insights on this. It's appreciated. Great to share information with those of us that really enjoy these trucks.

 

No problem man, it's what we love doin.

Adrianspeeder

 

Here is what I am looking at a minimum to get this fixed:

- Drop the fuel tank
- Drain the remaining red diesel in the tank
- Replace the Fuel Filter
- Remove and clean the injectors
- Replace Oil and Oil Filter

Total for above: approximately $1300

Ford will not cover this under warranty, so I am having to get a lawyer to go after Pilot who sold the red diesel in UNMARKED pumps. They are of the opinion they do not have to notify customers that are subsituting off highway diesel for regular diesel.

Again, my problems after unknowningly pumping the red diesel are:

- rough engine which I associate with injector misfire
- gas mileage down from 21mpg to 12mpg on highway
- high amount of soot in exhaust

 

This is getting amusing, sad, but amusing.

 

PILOT ...... will never pay you


Imagine the millions of people that have already bought this fuel. Imagine if every station that sold it was now responsible for any ones repair bill????

They will fight this tooth and nail.


I wish you the best of luck, But I think you and your lawyer are in for a fight.

It is a bit weird though, I dont think there is any kind of legislation reguarding this issue.

Honestly, I think you might have better luck suing ford. They say RED deisel voids the warranty???? May be you can ask them to explain why??



I did some searching and found this http://www.njmta.org/articles.dws?section=1&id=726


Please pay special attention to the line " I can only assume that this means that there is a higher sulfur content.


I also found this, WAY too much info

 

Well, what would YOU do with a 4 month old F250 with just 6000 miles on it that had been in perfect running condition prior to getting the red diesel in the system?

In the last month, Ford put out a service bulleting to dealers (Bulletin # 18896) that the dealer is using as their reason for not letting warranty cover the repairs:

The bulletin states:

'The use of high sulfur diesel fuel is not recommended by Ford Motor Company for these applications as outlined in the Owner's Guide and Diesel Supplments. Ford recommends low sulfur (less than 500ppm sulfur), Number D-1 or D-2 Diesel Fuel. The use of non recommended fuels can result in engine damage"

So there you have it

Again, the pumps HAD NO NOTICE that they contained Red Diesel. Based on your logic, I guess Pilot should also get off the hook if they had regular gas in the diesel pumps. I am sorry, your logic does not hold. I would NEVER have pumped the diesel if I had known it was red diesel. Now, I have a $1300+ out of pocket repair bill as a result of it.

Yes, I am not pleased with Ford's response to it also. In this case I was HONEST with them that I had unknowingly pumped red diesel. Either way, they would have seen it in the fuel.

 

I can't wait for the outcome...keep us posted.

 

powerstroke73 has made some good and factual statements that are getting ignored.

Diesel has been in short supply. Getting a load of crap diesel wouldn't be a surprise as I'm sure there are distributors and retailers that will do whatever they have to, to get diesel to sell.

Dyed diesel should be no different that regular except that it's not taxed. Since it's primarily sold for off road use, they may be selling a crappy fuel, or blended with something. Ford can hide behind it because since the fuel came out of a pump intended for off road (AG etc.) use, they can't be guarenteed of it's quality although there should be no difference, but the retailer can get away with leser quality.

Also, it's the IRS that suspended untaxed diesel resrictions temporarily, however, YOU must claim it on your federal return and end up paying tax on it at tax time anyway. Because of that, I'm really surprised the station was selling it blindly, or are they playing dumb. Go to the IRS web-site and read up on it.

 

Everything but the injectors you can do easily for yourself if you would like. Heck, might be able to use this as an "excuse" to the wife for some performance stuff. "...but I might as well get these injectors and with all the money i'll "save" get some go fast goodies..."

I still bet that you just got a batch of wet or old diesel. Just happened to be red.

Adrianspeeder

 

Ever priced diesel injectors? LOL I doub't he'd get that by anyones wife.

 

You dont pay taxes on it at tax time, They charge the tax for it when they sell it. They just had a large supply of High sulfur diesel {red dye} and they were running out of the Low sulfur Diesel. They are selling it out of the Road diesel pumps and charging taxes for it.


He didnt pump it out of an offroad pump. He used the regular diesel pump.

Red DYE diesel usually has about 5 or 6 times the sulfur content of Highway diesel. Its diesel, but its not the exact same thing. Hiway diesel has lower sulfur, but a higher Cetan rating. The off-road diesel has a higher Sulfur content, which gives it a Lower Cetan rating.
The lower the cetane rating, the longer the ignition delay.

So, hes got more smoke, less power, black soot in the tail pipe, he lost some MPG, and it wont idle right, because hes blowing ALOT of unburned fuel out the tail pipe. My guess is he needs to have his injectors cleaned {I dont think they need to be replaced, but I might be wrong} Im sure his EGR vavles are totally gummed up, And if he has a Catalytic converter he might have problems there as well.

Its like saying Regular gasoline and Unleaded gasoline are the same thing.
If you put the wrong crap in it will eventually cost you.


I dont blame wharrell for his lack of knowledge. NOBODY, really trys to have a serious in depth understanding of the fuel they put in their tank. Hell, They got me too. After all the reading up I did on it though, Its pretty obvious that Putting Red DYE in the newer diesels is going to end up in disaster.




As far as wharrell,

Im not sure if you have a case, I think it would depend on how you purchased it??? Was it out of an "Unmarked pump" or did it actually say #1 or #2 Diesel on it? Because if it did, that wouldnt be your ignorance, it would be them mislabeling a product. You should try to get a picture of the pumps if you can.

 

Again, for one last time since I'm feel like a broken record. The majority of diesel comes from the exact same pump at the refinery and the dye is added at the time it is pumped into the tranker truck. I'm sure there are a few refinerys yet selling high sulfur diesel, but most of them are going away from that as the EPA guidelines apply to everything now, on and offroad. TierIII emissions are hitting for the 06 year vehicles, thus most oil companies have gone to lower sulfur fuel already. The only thing that would have been a problem here is that the fuel was probably dirty from sitting for long periods in a storage tank. Pilot sells alot of onroad diesel, but very little offroad. But this diesel is all the same, one has dye and sits alot longer in a storage tank.


Also again, all the sypmtoms mentioned can be caused by a bad EGR valve (glad my 7.3L doesn't have one, but sucks to be you). Again Ford does not want to pay so they're using this whole thing as a scape goat to get out of repairs. This was a once in a lifetime opportunity for FMC and they took it. The EGR was having issues before I imagine, it was a freak coincidence that it happened at this time. Sorry, but you have a crappy dealer that screwed you, NOT a bad filling station.


Hate to say it, but your lawsuit is gonna cost you alot more than you'll ever get out of it. I'd give you about a 1 in 100,000 chance of seeing a dime from Pilot over this one. They'll counter with an argument similar to "How many other trucks similar to this one have we sold fuel to with no issues." I'm not a lawyer, but its a pretty flimsy case.

 

Not 6.0L ones, no.

Adrianspeeder

 

Just for grins unplug the EGR valve and see if there is any difference in how the truck runs.