Cat Back System
Thread Starter
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Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
From: Pottstown, PA
Cat Back System
Hi All,
I would like some opinions about a Cat Back system for a 2000 Expedition 4X4 with the 4.6L. As many of you know, it has no low end guts.
Has anybody found one that works good, not too loud, installs without a lot of modification and most important does not kill the low end torque?
Put a Borla on my 92 Bronco along with JBA headers and killed my gas milage and low end. Guess the computer couldn't compensate for the mods. Sounded good though.
Thanks in advance for the help
Best Regards
Michael
------------------
2000 Expedition XLT, 4X4, 4.6, 3.55
C & C Group
K&N air filter
WeatherTech Vent Shades
Hellwig Sport Tech Anti-Sway Bar
Coming Soon
Cat-Back Exhaust
Performance Shocks
Fender Flares and Mud Flaps
I would like some opinions about a Cat Back system for a 2000 Expedition 4X4 with the 4.6L. As many of you know, it has no low end guts.
Has anybody found one that works good, not too loud, installs without a lot of modification and most important does not kill the low end torque?
Put a Borla on my 92 Bronco along with JBA headers and killed my gas milage and low end. Guess the computer couldn't compensate for the mods. Sounded good though.
Thanks in advance for the help
Best Regards
Michael
------------------
2000 Expedition XLT, 4X4, 4.6, 3.55
C & C Group
K&N air filter
WeatherTech Vent Shades
Hellwig Sport Tech Anti-Sway Bar
Coming Soon
Cat-Back Exhaust
Performance Shocks
Fender Flares and Mud Flaps
Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Pumper,
I have a '99 Expy with the 4.6 and 3.55 rear. I did three mods in this order:
1) K&N FIPK: Noticed some improvement
2) Gibson Cat-Back single exhaust: This mod also provided some improvement especially in
the low RPM range. The Gibson is also quiet in the cab.
3) Superchips: The was the best mod I installed in my truck. It provided 26 more horses and also tunes the transmission to provide firmer shifts.
The combination of the three above mods resulted in a big improvement in low end torque. I would estimate that the three mods increased flywheel horsepower from 240 stock to around 285 - 290 with a significant torque improvement as well. The truck is much more fun to drive now and is no longer slugglish off the line. The total cost of these three mods was around $750 and is well worth the investment. Although if I had to choose only one, I would go with the Superchip.
JC
------------------
1999 Expedition XLT
4.6L
Gibson Swept Side Exhaust
Superchipped
K&N FIPK
I have a '99 Expy with the 4.6 and 3.55 rear. I did three mods in this order:
1) K&N FIPK: Noticed some improvement
2) Gibson Cat-Back single exhaust: This mod also provided some improvement especially in
the low RPM range. The Gibson is also quiet in the cab.
3) Superchips: The was the best mod I installed in my truck. It provided 26 more horses and also tunes the transmission to provide firmer shifts.
The combination of the three above mods resulted in a big improvement in low end torque. I would estimate that the three mods increased flywheel horsepower from 240 stock to around 285 - 290 with a significant torque improvement as well. The truck is much more fun to drive now and is no longer slugglish off the line. The total cost of these three mods was around $750 and is well worth the investment. Although if I had to choose only one, I would go with the Superchip.
JC
------------------
1999 Expedition XLT
4.6L
Gibson Swept Side Exhaust
Superchipped
K&N FIPK
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 344
Likes: 1
From: Baltimore, MD
PumperMike-
Like BlackExpy, I performed the same three mods (see signature for order of installation). I got a lot of return with the Superchip, not much difference with the Airaid, and some upper-end RPM juice with the Jardine cat back system.
I'm running a 5.4L. With the Jardine, I have noticed some low-end loss, but not a lot. Also, I get a drone inside the cab at 2000rpm (which means I can't drive 70 on this highway!). It's borderline whether I leave on the Jardine or re-install the OEM. About the cat back installation, my mechanic had the OEM off and the Jardine on within an hour, no modifications required. He said it was a breeze.
Hope this helps, and congrats on the new Expy!
------------------
2000 Wedgewood Blue Expy XLT 5.4L 4WD, C&C group, towing package, beige leather interior, captain's chairs, 6 CD Changer, 255/70R16, all-weather floor mats
MODS
Ford Bug Deflector - 2/15/2000
Superchip - 3/11/2000
Airaid - 3/23/2000
Edelbrock IAS shocks - 3/23/2000
Jardine cat-back exhaust - 4/6/2000
Under Seat Locking Storage Drawer - 6/6/00
Like BlackExpy, I performed the same three mods (see signature for order of installation). I got a lot of return with the Superchip, not much difference with the Airaid, and some upper-end RPM juice with the Jardine cat back system.
I'm running a 5.4L. With the Jardine, I have noticed some low-end loss, but not a lot. Also, I get a drone inside the cab at 2000rpm (which means I can't drive 70 on this highway!). It's borderline whether I leave on the Jardine or re-install the OEM. About the cat back installation, my mechanic had the OEM off and the Jardine on within an hour, no modifications required. He said it was a breeze.
Hope this helps, and congrats on the new Expy!
------------------
2000 Wedgewood Blue Expy XLT 5.4L 4WD, C&C group, towing package, beige leather interior, captain's chairs, 6 CD Changer, 255/70R16, all-weather floor mats
MODS
Ford Bug Deflector - 2/15/2000
Superchip - 3/11/2000
Airaid - 3/23/2000
Edelbrock IAS shocks - 3/23/2000
Jardine cat-back exhaust - 4/6/2000
Under Seat Locking Storage Drawer - 6/6/00
Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY, USA
JMartin,
Were the Edelbrock IAS shocks worth the investment? What specific improvements have you noticed since installing these? I'm considering doing this before the OEM shocks
wear out, but only if there's a noticable difference.
Thanks,
JC
------------------
1999 Expedition XLT
4.6L
Gibson Swept Side Exhaust
Superchipped
K&N FIPK
Were the Edelbrock IAS shocks worth the investment? What specific improvements have you noticed since installing these? I'm considering doing this before the OEM shocks
wear out, but only if there's a noticable difference.
Thanks,
JC
------------------
1999 Expedition XLT
4.6L
Gibson Swept Side Exhaust
Superchipped
K&N FIPK
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 344
Likes: 1
From: Baltimore, MD
BlackExpy-
I was introduced to the Edelbrock IAS when I owned my 97 Explorer XLT; installing those at 40K miles. I was so happy with the improvements, I took the OEM shocks off my Expy after only 3 months. With Expy, they severely reduce the amount of lateral lean\roll with this top-heavy vehicle. Also, they dampen the every-day bumps extremely well. As for off-road, I don't know. I haven't taken the monster into the hills as yet!
Yes, they are expensive, but, I think they are well worth the investment. As a side note and FYI, I have read here of owners installing Hellwig anti-sway bars on the Expy's. Some say this makes the ride TOO stiff. For me, just this shock upgrade was the right move.
BTW, do you know if the OEM shocks from my 200 will fit your '99? If you decide not to upgrade the shocks, and my OEM's fit, I will sell them to you. They have less than 3000 miles on them!
Hope this helps...
------------------
2000 Wedgewood Blue Expy XLT 5.4L 4WD, C&C group, towing package, beige leather interior, captain's chairs, 6 CD Changer, 255/70R16, all-weather floor mats
MODS
Ford Bug Deflector - 2/15/2000
Superchip - 3/11/2000
Airaid - 3/23/2000
Edelbrock IAS shocks - 3/23/2000
Jardine cat-back exhaust - 4/6/2000
Under Seat Locking Storage Drawer - 6/6/00
I was introduced to the Edelbrock IAS when I owned my 97 Explorer XLT; installing those at 40K miles. I was so happy with the improvements, I took the OEM shocks off my Expy after only 3 months. With Expy, they severely reduce the amount of lateral lean\roll with this top-heavy vehicle. Also, they dampen the every-day bumps extremely well. As for off-road, I don't know. I haven't taken the monster into the hills as yet!
Yes, they are expensive, but, I think they are well worth the investment. As a side note and FYI, I have read here of owners installing Hellwig anti-sway bars on the Expy's. Some say this makes the ride TOO stiff. For me, just this shock upgrade was the right move.
BTW, do you know if the OEM shocks from my 200 will fit your '99? If you decide not to upgrade the shocks, and my OEM's fit, I will sell them to you. They have less than 3000 miles on them!
Hope this helps...
------------------
2000 Wedgewood Blue Expy XLT 5.4L 4WD, C&C group, towing package, beige leather interior, captain's chairs, 6 CD Changer, 255/70R16, all-weather floor mats
MODS
Ford Bug Deflector - 2/15/2000
Superchip - 3/11/2000
Airaid - 3/23/2000
Edelbrock IAS shocks - 3/23/2000
Jardine cat-back exhaust - 4/6/2000
Under Seat Locking Storage Drawer - 6/6/00
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
To PumperMike & Others,
Just a word of caution here on exhaust systems in general, especially concerning torque available at lower rpms.
It's not a matter of "the computer not adapting" to the mods, or anything like that. That is not what causes the loss of low-end torque or gas mileage when you make exhaust changes.
What causes the loss of low-end torque is slowing down the velocity of the spent exhaust stream, which reduces the scavenging effect that helps to pull the spent exhaust gases from the cylinder heads. That loss of low-end torque makes you use more gas than you normally would, simply because you're standing on the gas pedal harder to get the vehicle going, because the torque has been reduced from too much flow.
Typically this is caused by using too large pipe diameter for the job at hand, or going with "true duals"in the same size pipe as came from the factory, which is 2.5" on most of the late-model Ford gas-engine trucks & SUV's. Either way, what happens is the actual *velocity* of the spent exhaust stream is slowed down, killing the scavenging effect which helps to pull the exhaust gases out of the cylinder head.
This can sometimes be caused by just the wrong muffler type as well.
What actually happens is that you usually kill off low end torque, but pick up higher-rpm horsepower from the improved flow. This is just the opposite of what these heavy vehicles need.
It used to be that on most "V-shaped" engines you put on a set of true duals, and you got a nice power gain throughout the entire rpm range, but not any more. The diameter of the factory exhaust system has increased quite a bit over the past 10 years or so, and so now you have to be careful to select the "proper" exhaust system or muffler for your purpose.
What we suggest is calling and talking directly to the manufacturer, to get their advice. Gibson, for example makes systems for these trucks that can either help high-rpm horsepower, or help torque down lower.
Jardine is one of my favorites, so I was sorry to hear from jmartinb that he's getting some "drone" in the cabin, we've never gotten that kind of feedback on Jardine before. Maybe calling them in Jackson Hole, Wyoming where they're located might yield some advice on that, it would be worth a phone call at any rate.
Dynomax is doing a darn nice job in their cat-back exhaust systems, we like thier Super Turbo cat-back systems. They are quiet, don't kill low-end torque, and are one of the cheapest cat-back systems on the market today. They use a true turbo-style muffler, whose characteristics are to flow very well without a lot of noise.
Just a little food for thought,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Info:https://www.f150online.com/rally2000/index.html
Just a word of caution here on exhaust systems in general, especially concerning torque available at lower rpms.
It's not a matter of "the computer not adapting" to the mods, or anything like that. That is not what causes the loss of low-end torque or gas mileage when you make exhaust changes.
What causes the loss of low-end torque is slowing down the velocity of the spent exhaust stream, which reduces the scavenging effect that helps to pull the spent exhaust gases from the cylinder heads. That loss of low-end torque makes you use more gas than you normally would, simply because you're standing on the gas pedal harder to get the vehicle going, because the torque has been reduced from too much flow.
Typically this is caused by using too large pipe diameter for the job at hand, or going with "true duals"in the same size pipe as came from the factory, which is 2.5" on most of the late-model Ford gas-engine trucks & SUV's. Either way, what happens is the actual *velocity* of the spent exhaust stream is slowed down, killing the scavenging effect which helps to pull the exhaust gases out of the cylinder head.
This can sometimes be caused by just the wrong muffler type as well.
What actually happens is that you usually kill off low end torque, but pick up higher-rpm horsepower from the improved flow. This is just the opposite of what these heavy vehicles need.
It used to be that on most "V-shaped" engines you put on a set of true duals, and you got a nice power gain throughout the entire rpm range, but not any more. The diameter of the factory exhaust system has increased quite a bit over the past 10 years or so, and so now you have to be careful to select the "proper" exhaust system or muffler for your purpose.
What we suggest is calling and talking directly to the manufacturer, to get their advice. Gibson, for example makes systems for these trucks that can either help high-rpm horsepower, or help torque down lower.
Jardine is one of my favorites, so I was sorry to hear from jmartinb that he's getting some "drone" in the cabin, we've never gotten that kind of feedback on Jardine before. Maybe calling them in Jackson Hole, Wyoming where they're located might yield some advice on that, it would be worth a phone call at any rate.
Dynomax is doing a darn nice job in their cat-back exhaust systems, we like thier Super Turbo cat-back systems. They are quiet, don't kill low-end torque, and are one of the cheapest cat-back systems on the market today. They use a true turbo-style muffler, whose characteristics are to flow very well without a lot of noise.
Just a little food for thought,
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Info:https://www.f150online.com/rally2000/index.html
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
From: Los Gatos, CA, US
I started with a Flowmaster 50 series (3 chamber) muffler with a single exit to a 3.5" chrome tip at the same place as the original tail pipe (behind the passenger rear wheel). The performance was great, the sound was great - OUTSIDE. In the cab, it was obnoxious. If you like that, go for it.
I just replaced the muffler with a 70 series SUV muffler by Flowmaster and added a 2nd exit with a matching 3.5" chrome tip on the other side behind the driver side rear wheel. LOVE IT! The performance is still great, and the sound is awesome. Nice deep rumble, sounds great when you get on it, but doesn't annoy with normal driving. I highly recommend this set up! (Piping from muffler to tips is all 2.5")
'00 EB Expy 5.4 Estate Green
18" TSW Wheels, 285/60/18 Tires
K&N intake
Superchip
Flowmaster cat-back
Stull Billet grills
I just replaced the muffler with a 70 series SUV muffler by Flowmaster and added a 2nd exit with a matching 3.5" chrome tip on the other side behind the driver side rear wheel. LOVE IT! The performance is still great, and the sound is awesome. Nice deep rumble, sounds great when you get on it, but doesn't annoy with normal driving. I highly recommend this set up! (Piping from muffler to tips is all 2.5")
'00 EB Expy 5.4 Estate Green
18" TSW Wheels, 285/60/18 Tires
K&N intake
Superchip
Flowmaster cat-back
Stull Billet grills
Trending Topics
Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Mike,
From what I read, the Gibson Swept Side single exhaust that I purchased for my Expy is geared towards delivering torque at the low end of the RPM range. It's certainly not loud. In fact, it's just a bit louder than stock. I noticed a slight improvement with this setup throughout the RPM range. It's only a 1/2" step-up from the cat-back.
Have you heard otherwise about this Gibson set-up?
JC
------------------
1999 Expedition XLT
4.6L
Gibson Swept Side Exhaust
Superchipped
K&N FIPK
From what I read, the Gibson Swept Side single exhaust that I purchased for my Expy is geared towards delivering torque at the low end of the RPM range. It's certainly not loud. In fact, it's just a bit louder than stock. I noticed a slight improvement with this setup throughout the RPM range. It's only a 1/2" step-up from the cat-back.
Have you heard otherwise about this Gibson set-up?
JC
------------------
1999 Expedition XLT
4.6L
Gibson Swept Side Exhaust
Superchipped
K&N FIPK
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 344
Likes: 1
From: Baltimore, MD
Just an update on my Jardine cat back "concerns"...
I spoke with John Brooks at Jardine Products, in Corona, CA. He is the automotive product manager, and I purchased my system from him back in April. I explained to him my two concerns: the drone at 2000rpm (highway cruising at 70mph), and some loss of low-end torque. He was very understanding of my concerns, and could relate to the interior level issue at that RPM range (same highway driving habits as me). To begin addressing that, he spoke with the design engineer and decide to first send me a resinator tip. I understand that is a restrictive device and will curtail some of the benefits of this system, but hopefully will knock the edge off of the interior noise level and still be an improvement over OEM.
As far as the low-end torque issue is concerned, he stated that "with most of these systems, you will gain on one end of the RPM range, and lose some on the opposite end. Most people are looking for the gain in the upper end of the RPM range.". Again, he's very willing to work with me on these issues.
I'll keep my updates on this thread. Funny enough, the end result of this may be that I drive 55 and not try a "hole shot" out of the I95 toll booths! :-)
------------------
2000 Wedgewood Blue Expy XLT 5.4L 4WD, C&C group, towing package, beige leather interior, captain's chairs, 6 CD Changer, 255/70R16, all-weather floor mats
MODS
Ford Bug Deflector - 2/15/2000
Superchip - 3/11/2000
Airaid - 3/23/2000
Edelbrock IAS shocks - 3/23/2000
Jardine cat-back exhaust - 4/6/2000
Under Seat Locking Storage Drawer - 6/6/00
I spoke with John Brooks at Jardine Products, in Corona, CA. He is the automotive product manager, and I purchased my system from him back in April. I explained to him my two concerns: the drone at 2000rpm (highway cruising at 70mph), and some loss of low-end torque. He was very understanding of my concerns, and could relate to the interior level issue at that RPM range (same highway driving habits as me). To begin addressing that, he spoke with the design engineer and decide to first send me a resinator tip. I understand that is a restrictive device and will curtail some of the benefits of this system, but hopefully will knock the edge off of the interior noise level and still be an improvement over OEM.
As far as the low-end torque issue is concerned, he stated that "with most of these systems, you will gain on one end of the RPM range, and lose some on the opposite end. Most people are looking for the gain in the upper end of the RPM range.". Again, he's very willing to work with me on these issues.
I'll keep my updates on this thread. Funny enough, the end result of this may be that I drive 55 and not try a "hole shot" out of the I95 toll booths! :-)
------------------
2000 Wedgewood Blue Expy XLT 5.4L 4WD, C&C group, towing package, beige leather interior, captain's chairs, 6 CD Changer, 255/70R16, all-weather floor mats
MODS
Ford Bug Deflector - 2/15/2000
Superchip - 3/11/2000
Airaid - 3/23/2000
Edelbrock IAS shocks - 3/23/2000
Jardine cat-back exhaust - 4/6/2000
Under Seat Locking Storage Drawer - 6/6/00
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA. US.
On 5.4l motors, The drown in the cabin will be around 2100rpm. On the freeway it about 78mph with 3.73ls and 17" wheels.
Sure would like to know how that resinator works out.
Also have Edelbrock shocks and like them.
Though I do like the firmness over the mushiness. They controlled the bounciness of my X. And the Hellwig sway bar works great for body roll.
------------------
99 Expedition XLT
5.4L
4X4
3.73LS
17"AT/S
Airaid Intake
Superchip
Custom Edlebrock shocks
Magnaflow 3"
Helwig Sway Arm
Polk speakers
Sure would like to know how that resinator works out.
Also have Edelbrock shocks and like them.
Though I do like the firmness over the mushiness. They controlled the bounciness of my X. And the Hellwig sway bar works great for body roll.
------------------
99 Expedition XLT
5.4L
4X4
3.73LS
17"AT/S
Airaid Intake
Superchip
Custom Edlebrock shocks
Magnaflow 3"
Helwig Sway Arm
Polk speakers
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 344
Likes: 1
From: Baltimore, MD
hdlouie-
I'll be sure to keep updating this thread on my exhaust "project". I'm due to call Jardine today for a progress report on the resonator tip.
As for the Hellwig sway bar, I understand it bolts into the same holes as the OEM. Is this a difficult DIY installation? Any tips\tricks you can provide on the installation? I'm looking to compliment my Edelbrocks with the an upgraded sway bar.
------------------
2000 Wedgewood Blue Expy XLT 5.4L 4WD, C&C group, towing package, beige leather interior, captain's chairs, 6 CD Changer, 255/70R16, all-weather floor mats
MODS
Ford Bug Deflector - 2/15/2000
Superchip - 3/11/2000
Airaid - 3/23/2000
Edelbrock IAS shocks - 3/23/2000
Jardine cat-back exhaust - 4/6/2000
Under Seat Locking Storage Drawer - 6/6/00
I'll be sure to keep updating this thread on my exhaust "project". I'm due to call Jardine today for a progress report on the resonator tip.
As for the Hellwig sway bar, I understand it bolts into the same holes as the OEM. Is this a difficult DIY installation? Any tips\tricks you can provide on the installation? I'm looking to compliment my Edelbrocks with the an upgraded sway bar.
------------------
2000 Wedgewood Blue Expy XLT 5.4L 4WD, C&C group, towing package, beige leather interior, captain's chairs, 6 CD Changer, 255/70R16, all-weather floor mats
MODS
Ford Bug Deflector - 2/15/2000
Superchip - 3/11/2000
Airaid - 3/23/2000
Edelbrock IAS shocks - 3/23/2000
Jardine cat-back exhaust - 4/6/2000
Under Seat Locking Storage Drawer - 6/6/00
Junior Member
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: Edgewood, Maryland
Thinking about putting on the sway bar. How easy was it? Any drilling? Bolts right up? Does it mount where the factory sway bar did? Worth the cost? Any comments would be helpful. Thanks
------------------
------------------
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA. US.
It was pretty straight forward. No drilling at all. You have to use the Hellwig's hardware not the stock stuff, which is a little more time consuming. And you'll get all that guwee stuff from the frame on ya.
------------------
99 Expedition XLT
5.4L
4X4
3.73LS
17"AT/S
Airaid Intake
Superchip
Custom Edlebrock shocks
Magnaflow 3"
Helwig Sway Arm
Polk speakers
------------------
99 Expedition XLT
5.4L
4X4
3.73LS
17"AT/S
Airaid Intake
Superchip
Custom Edlebrock shocks
Magnaflow 3"
Helwig Sway Arm
Polk speakers
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 1999
Posts: 304
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA. US.
Went on a 1500 mile round trip vacation with kids, oh, and wife, just before leaving I had to change out the Magnaflow muffler because of the drown at 2100-2300rpm. Now this was NOT the SUV muffler that they sell. I did have the SUV muffler from Magnaflow, but it was too quiet and didn't seem to feel any performance. I had the flow through muffler from Magnaflow removed and installed a Dynomax Super Turbo. Now it fits the bill, not too loud, but still has the some of the top end. I can still hear a slight drown but not like before. Thats why I wanted to share this with you after my trip! I will keep this muffler on for good. I did hear some bad stuff about this muffler though, it rusts out easily. NO warantty on rust. But will keep you posted on any rust. I did love the Magnaflow for performance but the drown got to me. Might be good on a f150.
Model#Dynomax 17769
------------------
99 Expedition XLT
5.4L
4X4
3.73LS
17"AT/S
Airaid Intake
Superchip
Custom Edlebrock shocks
Dynomax Super Turbo 3"
Helwig Sway Arm
Polk speakers
[This message has been edited by hdlouie (edited 07-10-2000).]
Model#Dynomax 17769
------------------
99 Expedition XLT
5.4L
4X4
3.73LS
17"AT/S
Airaid Intake
Superchip
Custom Edlebrock shocks
Dynomax Super Turbo 3"
Helwig Sway Arm
Polk speakers
[This message has been edited by hdlouie (edited 07-10-2000).]