I have been told by a muffler guy that if I put on an X-Pipe into a DI DO Magnaflow it would help improve my flow velocity and net me a bit more H.P. at at all ranges over my existing Gibson SuperTruck exhaust.

Is this true and would this also help low end torque or would I loose some torque?

Also, can anyone tell me if this set up with the DI DO Magnaflow would be quieter than my Gibson S.T. ?


Rocks

 

Unless your pipes were both the same length (in the centre of the truck) coming from the exhaust manifolds to the X-pipe then it's doubtful. You ever priced out an X-pipe? Just going into a DI muffler or using a smoothly merged y-pipe does the same thing for way less money. Leave the X-pipes for the Mustang guys that have equal-length exhaust piping.

Fix up the factory T with a flowmaster Y-pipe and use 3" SI/SO system all the way back.

Duals sound nice but no hp advantage, perhaps heavier than a sweptside system so the 1/4 hp gain is taken away by the weight of the extra pipe.

http://www.fordf150.net/howto/exhaust.htm

 

Thanks for the advice p_ferlow. Your not gonna believe what got me started with this x pipe thing. I have the supertruck and the sound was kind of cool for about a week or two. My 41 year old ears are getting tired of the sound already. I had heard the magnaflow was a bit quieter and offered good flow dynamics so I think I am about to have a supertruck exhaust for sale. The x pipe thing came up in a convo with a couple of the guys at work.

So, do you know if the Magnaflow is a bit more tamed?


Thanks Again,

Rocks

 

If the magnaflow is a straight through design such as the ultra-flo it won't be any quieter than your supertruck exhaust. The big problem with the 97' is the pipe exits in front of the rear tire. To help reduce interior drone you have to mount the muffler as far back as possible away from the cab to the point just before where the pipe curves up to go over the rear axle.

If you want quieter try the dynomax superturbo or borla or basically anything that's not a straight-through design (if you can't look right through the muffler it's usually a "turbo" design).

Here's a "turbo" design (superturbo):


This is a louder straight-through design (ultra-flo):


Flowmaster makes a universal tailpipe kit but cutting and welding is required if you're up to the job. It's $93cdn so around $50us for the kit if you want to change to the 98'+ style exiting after the rear tire.

In your case I'd probably try a different muffler before going the tailpipe route.

You can also swap out your supertruck muffler for a SI/DO quieter muffler from a different manufacturer. That would be the cheapest solution. Then you can keep your supertruck pipes.

Lots of options.

Or try this stuff: Cheap alternative to dynomat dampening material

 

Wow, Thanks for all the help p_ferlow. I see I am going to have to do some thinking on this to get it right on the next move.
I may try some of the sound deadening material. That may solve my problem. The sound mostly comes from the rear floor on the back seat passenger side.


Rocks

 

Don't forget there are two air vents on the rear cab wall on either side. You can see them if you remove the rear seat back. They are covered with rubber louvres that open when there is positive air pressure in the cab such as with the windows closed and fresh air vents open in the dash. That's why sometimes your truck will sound quieter if you crack open a window because this creates neutral or negative air pressure in the cabin closing the air vents in the cab wall.

You can also see those vents from underneath the truck in the lower cab wall between the cab and bed area.

Have a look at my link above as I've added some dampening material comparison info this morning.

Anyhow, as well as adding dampening material to the rear cab wall behind the seat think about covering those vents up with some sort of foam that will help muffle the sound somewhat but still flow some air. Perhaps a car wash sponge cut in half or something that's about an inch thick. I'm just guessing on that... I'll be coming up with something like that probably over the next long weekend which I have planned for doing a how-to on my truck with installing sound dampening material to the whole interior.

 

The X pipe setup was on speed week about 6-8 months ago.

I seem to recall equal length pipe or not, the x-pipe created a draw through senerio with the exhst gas, and when getting on it, this aided in pulling the gas towards the muffler. The Magnaflow guy went into the typical months of extensive testing speech.

I could be all wet about this, but I thought this is how the perf gain was in part made. The other being the muffler itself when compared to a stock system both muffler and Y-pipe.

The Magnaflow is quiter then the Gibson super truck exhst. Then again I think just about anything is quiter then the ST. I still love it, but if you are going sick of it, it might be time to think about a switch.

Best bet rather then getting the kits for the truck, get the X-pipe and the muffler and have the shop bend the tubes. A good shop does not charge what a kit costs, and they should do a good job i not creating a "bind" for the flow.

My dad got a 3" pipe on his ext cab long bed that dumped at a 45* by the rear bumper for about 50% of what my last truck's rear exit duals from Gibson cost. And he did not have to install it <g>

Have the shop price out the x pipe and the muffler and give an estimate on the pipe and install, you might be shocked at how low it is.

Also on a rear side swept type dump you might pick up a few tq, if you are concerned about that, as well as getting the noise away from the cab.

Rocks on another note, do you know where your fans are set to come on at. I have been playing with my new autotap software that I got for checking the progress on my JLP / home made air ram kit, and I notice that my fans seem to come on at ~ 194* for the 60% run. I don't know if the PP kit has the 60% then 10* later they run at 100%. Maybe I am getting to specific, but now that I have something that I can log data off the computer, I am noticing all sorts of little things that I never saw before.

BTW the K&N FIPK has a 106* F intake temp at an outside temp of ~ 83*. Just FYI.

 

I still don't think the x-pipe is that useful without equal length pipes. Look at it as the difference between an equal length header and an unequal length header. The unequal length header will be marginally better than the OE exhaust manifold because each exhaust pulse is not really helping the scavenging process because they are arriving at the collector out of order.

If for instance you have an exhaust pulse from the left manifold collide with an exhaust pulse from the right manifold at the x-pipe what makes it more efficient than a y-pipe under the same circumstances? Imagine that a pulse with equal length pipes from the exhaust manifolds creates a vacuum for the other side of the x-pipe and then the other side of the x-pipe does the same for it's opposite side, right - left - right - left, etc one after another then the x-pipe will work.

Well... that's my theory anyhow.

 

Hello SSCULLY,

Thanks for the info on the X pipe. I did get a quote from one place. They said for the DI/DO Magnaflow and X pipe it would cost around $250 installed. All pipes welded and they said thery could use the two pipes coming out of my super truck since I like the side exit in front of my tire.

As for my fan settings, I have my first fan coming on at 190 degrees to coincide with my 180 degree stat and my second fan comes on 10 degrees higher. This is set up like that to keep from hitting the altenator/battery with a heavy "start amp". I also have two seperate controllers, one for each fan. I am not sure what type controller the flex a lites have.
If you have the standard 193 degree stat it sounds like yours are coming on about right. I don't know that 10 degrees higher on the setting would make a big difference.

On the K&N FIPK that inlet temp go up with a higher outside temp I assume. So with our 95-98 degree temps....YIKES. I need a block of ICE or something...LOL.


Rocks

 

That is a valid point. I do not recall what type of vech this was on, thought it was a truck, might have been a stang.

I guess someone better at this should be talking here, I'm by no means the expert on X-pipes ( thus the reason for the caveat of just what I saw on TV ), and jsut b/c is was on speed week, does not make it right either...

For those who give a rat's *** in the engine forum is 2 threads one on the electric fans, the other on the intake temp vs the K&N FIPK. Just thought I would clarify that additional question to Rocks on the topic.....maybe interesting, maybe crap...never can tell until all the data is in

 

Couple of small points here.

If you're simply looking for a reduction in noise, a balance pipe is an excellent way to go.
It takes a lot of the low rpm rumble out of the exhaust system.
As well as adds a small amount of torque down low.

Most times the balance pipe is installed just beyond the collectors, but as a practical matter it works well a little further back if necessary.

I have two chamber flowmasters on my 462" engined roadster and found the low speed rumble a bit much as well as it set off car alarms like nobody's business in the downtown parking garage and even set em off when passing parked cars on the street.
This, running at very low speeds and light throttle settings.

Aside from the headers and collectors the exhaust system is 2 1/2" all the way.
A 2 1/4" balance pipe was installed about 18" from the collector ends and most of the low speed rumble and harmonics disappeared.
It still sets off car alarms, but not as bad as it used to.
Mainly because the two chamber FMs are a touch noisy.
Still deciding what to do about that as the short FMs and Turbo-Muffs are about the only mufflers that will fit underneath.

The hot rod enthusiast mags show a definite torque gain on the dyno for every balance tube installation they've tested.

Balance tube size recommendations are usually to make it the same size as the exhaust pipes.
I went for the 2 1/4" size as it's a little easier to install into the 2 1/2" system than is a 2 1/2" balance pipe.
On this particular car, it has lots of horsepower so no gain was really required there.
All we were looking for was a reduction in low speed rumble and harmonics.

Fwiw - a couple of years back, one of the stock car racing mags ran dyno tests on balance tubes to find the ideal size.
I believe the test engine was a 350 Chevy built for NASCAR use.

What they found was, the bigger the better as far as balance tubes go.
To the extent that the best one they found was approx 2 1/2" x 6".
An oval pipe welded into the same general area as a typical balance pipe would be.

Next time you see a NASCAR car upside down, take a look at the exhaust system and you'll see the oval balance pipe.

As far as balance pipes go, Friday we're installing three chamber FMs with tailpipes all the way to the back on my 02 5.4L SuperCrew.
A balance pipe will be installed and I'll try to report back on how it sounds and performs.
Couple of weeks later I hope to report on gas mileage improvements if any.

C9

 

*Is putting on his flame proof underwear.*

Running true duals without a balancing device of some sort can be done in equal length tubing if the pipe from the left manifold or header were made to exit out the right side and the pipe from the right manifold or header were also to exit out the opposite side. This would effectively provide a system with true eqaul length tubing but if you were to install a balance pipe or mufflers you would need to stagger them as opposed to being installed side by side. This is to compensate for the longer length of pipe that comes from the left bank of the engine.

Staggering the locations of mufflers, balance pipe connections, etc. will ensure that the distance from the manifold or collector to the muffler or balancing device is equal in length. If you were to also make the pipes exiting the mufflers the same length you would have a true, equal length, dual exhaust system. All it takes is a good pipe fitter and some creativity.

I realize that this is very much an idealistic notion and most muffler shops and owners themselves dont think that it is worth the effort and expense to accomplish this. In my twisted way of thinking a system with uneqaul length pipes would need and benefit from a balance pipe of some sort more than applications with equal length pipes. This would include a muffler with di/do that share the same chamber/s, an X pipe, H pie, and aY pipe. The two banks would be balanced in pressure without all the complications of the afore mentiond "ideal" equal length system.

 

p-ferlow and I went several rounds tossing out both sides of the debate on exhaust balance devices. I was bound and determined right upto the day I got an exhaust to get a true dual system with some sort of x-pipe installed. I even found a cheap ($40) x-pipe from S&K performance. I stopped at a higly recommended exhuast shop to discuss installation. The guy there pointed out the same things as p-ferlow and others mentioned except he said to leave the stock y-pipe alone (I still somewhat disagree and am working to maybe change). I wound up going with just a regular custom catback exhaust system. I have it 2 1/2 back to a SI/DO muffler with 2 1/4 tailpipes nad 3x18inch SS tips. Great sounding combo (not to loud) and little to no loss in lowend. I also saved on weight and money which can go to better HP mods.
If infact one ay I do go with true duals I might throw in a x-pipe just to see what one may do. On an unequal length true dual system I now see it as one of those things that really doesn't help you but doesn't affect much either. Oh well, it's my .02 worth on the matter.

 

Without getting into all the esoterica concerning tuned exhaust systems I think it’s safe to say that with a typical dual exhaust system utilizing exhaust manifolds, there is no ‘tuned exhaust’.
Whether the exhaust/tailpipes are equal in overall length or not.
Considering the firing order of the Ford engines, it’s easy to see that the exhaust pulses emanating from the engine are not at 90 degrees apart on each side as would be required for a truly tuned system.
Resonant exhaust tuning usually comes into play with header equipped engines running equal length primary pipes.
Primary pipes defined as the ones between the head and the collector.
Resonant tuning is further affected by collector length as well.

Even with the exhaust manifolds that are much freer flowing today than they were in times past, you can see that exhaust flow within is quite turbulent considering - again - the firing order.
With headers, the turbulence is delayed because each cylinders output is isolated within the primaries until the collector and by then it doesn’t really create a problem.

What the balance pipe does, is increase the capacity of the collector and it has the nice side effect of taking some of the lower frequency harmonics out of the picture.
Or put another way, the resonance and low speed rumble is lessened to a great degree.

Everything I’ve seen and read about balance pipes shows that they do help and for sure it couldn’t hurt.
Even on a manifold equipped system.

Performance gains realized by a balance tube on a manifold equipped system would undoubtedly be quite small and not show the gains that a header equipped system would.
The main benefit here would be in scaling back the resonance and rumble of an overly loud system.


C9