air intake
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: spring, texas
Originally Posted by MGDfan
Hi malexander52;
A couple/few things (in no particular order) ...
1. Advancing timing via a tuner does not keep the 'valves open longer' - it determines where ignition occurs in relation to TDC. Valve timing is fixed by the cam profiles & how they have been 'degreed'. In 04+ 3V vehicles it's also a variable via the VCT system.
2. The CEL +/- tolerance is far greater than 3%, especially on the newer models - and if you did a search you'd see that setting a CEL is a crapshoot on some models - folks have gone 19:1 A/F on a dyno with no CEL ... the 04's seem overly prone ...
3. Intake 'bends'. The factory intake is a compromise affair - adequate flow, but above all quiet. There is a sacrifice in performance. When you add 3 Helmholtz resonators (see the 04+ 5.4L 3V factory intakes), you actually & intentionally disrupt laminar flow to suppress the frequencies most responsible for making unwanted intake noise. Primary design criteria= "Quiet".
4. The AF1 intake capitalizes on the above; as well as increasing cross-section a large amount in their 3.5" version. This, coupled with a huge filter, and the required custom tuning to correct the lean condition this intake introduces, produces not only greater top-end power, with no signs of dropoff @ 4000+ rpm that plagues some others (Volant), and in the case of the 3.5" extends those gains at low RPM as well. No other intake does this better - a fact MT can confirm, if you'd care to heed his advice.
5. Backpressure on the exhaust side is of secondary importance - it's how well the velocity of the exhaust gases is maintained ( or enhanced) that is the key to making/preserving low end torque. You need to ensure efficient cylinder scavenging. Baffled mufflers tend to kill that; too large a system will also affect the low end (but flow well on top). The term 'backpressure' is very misused, mis-applied,& misunderstood.
I live in a climate where there are seasonal swings of +30c to -30c; add seasonal fuel blends with variations in BTU content, and the last thing I worry about is how climatology is affecting my intake's performance - too many other variables to consider... a superior intake design is going to remain superior in all condions.
I concur on your dyno advice. That is precisely what TP does on a very frequent basis; they know this platform, specialize in it and hence know what really works (or not). Some aftermarket intake, tuner, and other companies really have some 'issues' with them - TP does not abide by false marketing claims.
I don't expect you to believe me, but before closing your mind as others have done, it behooves you to at least seek MT's perspective, then decide.
A couple/few things (in no particular order) ...
1. Advancing timing via a tuner does not keep the 'valves open longer' - it determines where ignition occurs in relation to TDC. Valve timing is fixed by the cam profiles & how they have been 'degreed'. In 04+ 3V vehicles it's also a variable via the VCT system.
2. The CEL +/- tolerance is far greater than 3%, especially on the newer models - and if you did a search you'd see that setting a CEL is a crapshoot on some models - folks have gone 19:1 A/F on a dyno with no CEL ... the 04's seem overly prone ...
3. Intake 'bends'. The factory intake is a compromise affair - adequate flow, but above all quiet. There is a sacrifice in performance. When you add 3 Helmholtz resonators (see the 04+ 5.4L 3V factory intakes), you actually & intentionally disrupt laminar flow to suppress the frequencies most responsible for making unwanted intake noise. Primary design criteria= "Quiet".
4. The AF1 intake capitalizes on the above; as well as increasing cross-section a large amount in their 3.5" version. This, coupled with a huge filter, and the required custom tuning to correct the lean condition this intake introduces, produces not only greater top-end power, with no signs of dropoff @ 4000+ rpm that plagues some others (Volant), and in the case of the 3.5" extends those gains at low RPM as well. No other intake does this better - a fact MT can confirm, if you'd care to heed his advice.
5. Backpressure on the exhaust side is of secondary importance - it's how well the velocity of the exhaust gases is maintained ( or enhanced) that is the key to making/preserving low end torque. You need to ensure efficient cylinder scavenging. Baffled mufflers tend to kill that; too large a system will also affect the low end (but flow well on top). The term 'backpressure' is very misused, mis-applied,& misunderstood.
I live in a climate where there are seasonal swings of +30c to -30c; add seasonal fuel blends with variations in BTU content, and the last thing I worry about is how climatology is affecting my intake's performance - too many other variables to consider... a superior intake design is going to remain superior in all condions.
I concur on your dyno advice. That is precisely what TP does on a very frequent basis; they know this platform, specialize in it and hence know what really works (or not). Some aftermarket intake, tuner, and other companies really have some 'issues' with them - TP does not abide by false marketing claims.
I don't expect you to believe me, but before closing your mind as others have done, it behooves you to at least seek MT's perspective, then decide.
1. It was explained to me by Ford that the tuners DO INFACT extend the time valves stay open via VCT.
2. I must clarify, my numbers regarding tolerances were for the 98-03 model 4.6 liter tritons. I know they are correct because I have been privvy to the manual via my ford friend.
3. Correct, I didnt know if I could use the "Helmholtz resonators " and be understood. Very good!
4. Correct, the idea is to INCREASE the diameter and encourage a larger volume of air into the manifold.
5. Correct the idea is to INCREASE exit velocity. But if you are generating MORE FUEL you are infact creating more exhaust gas. You can not add to or subtract from the energy in a closed system. It is a set quantity that can only be changed in form. What ever you put in is whatever you get out. It just has to be. Increasing the exhaust flow velocity will enhacne your performance. Correct on the size, too large and you will lose in the lower end and possibly the top end too. The system does rely on a certain amount of backpressure to function.
Thanks for the fantastic discourse!
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: spring, texas
[QUOTE=openclasspro#11]so with just these 2 mods- you are making these numbers-right
[/QUO
My bad, I was cutting and pasting from another post.
My current setup is:
2000 F-150 XLT 4.6L Windsor
k&n filter and intake
Motoblue underdrive pulleys
JBA 3' stainless catback single exit exhaust
Hypertech 93 octane tuning
On the day of the three dyno runs, that was my highest reading. I belive it was 71 degrees with super low humidity.
Sorry about the confusion there.
[/QUOMy bad, I was cutting and pasting from another post.
My current setup is:
2000 F-150 XLT 4.6L Windsor
k&n filter and intake
Motoblue underdrive pulleys
JBA 3' stainless catback single exit exhaust
Hypertech 93 octane tuning
On the day of the three dyno runs, that was my highest reading. I belive it was 71 degrees with super low humidity.
Sorry about the confusion there.
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,824
Likes: 0
From: North Huntingdon,Pa.
?
[QUOTE=malexander52]
interesing that you 7 yr old 2 valve 4.6-is putting out what a 04-06 5.4 300hp-365 ftlbs tq at flywheel engine puts out with a tuner, catback, and exhaust- that dyno reads ridiculously high
Originally Posted by openclasspro#11
so with just these 2 mods- you are making these numbers-right[/QUO
My bad, I was cutting and pasting from another post.
My current setup is:
2000 F-150 XLT 4.6L Windsor
k&n filter and intake
Motoblue underdrive pulleys
JBA 3' stainless catback single exit exhaust
Hypertech 93 octane tuning
On the day of the three dyno runs, that was my highest reading. I belive it was 71 degrees with super low humidity.
Sorry about the confusion there.
[/QUOMy bad, I was cutting and pasting from another post.
My current setup is:
2000 F-150 XLT 4.6L Windsor
k&n filter and intake
Motoblue underdrive pulleys
JBA 3' stainless catback single exit exhaust
Hypertech 93 octane tuning
On the day of the three dyno runs, that was my highest reading. I belive it was 71 degrees with super low humidity.
Sorry about the confusion there.
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 1999
Posts: 7,030
Likes: 3
From: WINDSOR, ONTARIO, CANADA
HI!... I 2nd that! Either the dyno you used was way out of calibration or the dyno picked up a kickdown shift while running it on the dyno. A stock NON P.I 4.6 makes about 220H.P at the flywheel. Since it has been proven that the 4R70-W and 8.8 rearend have a 65H.P drivetrain loss that would put you at 155-160RWH.P. These are popular RWH.P #'s for a stock 4.6 F-150. So your trying to tell us that the crappy HYPERTECH programmer and a K&N CAI gave you 94 - 89 RWH.P?????? I don't think so. If you have a healthy 4.6 and it made 165RWH.P with the two mods you mentioned you would only be making about 185RWH.P. Go to another dyno shop. Get on a MUSTANG chassis dyno to see what your real #'s are. Better yet, tell me where you went. I should bring my 354RWH.P F-150 there. Mabey, I can break 450RWH.P! lol!
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,803
Likes: 1
From: North Canton, Ohio
[QUOTE=malexander52]
My 5.4 would probably make over 400 rwhp on that dyno with just my AF1, XCAL2, and exhaust
There is no way you are making anywhere near that kind of power, NONE !!
Somebody is setting you up to look bad by giving you that kind of information.
Find another dyno.....
Originally Posted by openclasspro#11
so with just these 2 mods- you are making these numbers-right[/QUO
My bad, I was cutting and pasting from another post.
My current setup is:
2000 F-150 XLT 4.6L Windsor
k&n filter and intake
Motoblue underdrive pulleys
JBA 3' stainless catback single exit exhaust
Hypertech 93 octane tuning
On the day of the three dyno runs, that was my highest reading. I belive it was 71 degrees with super low humidity.
Sorry about the confusion there.
[/QUOMy bad, I was cutting and pasting from another post.
My current setup is:
2000 F-150 XLT 4.6L Windsor
k&n filter and intake
Motoblue underdrive pulleys
JBA 3' stainless catback single exit exhaust
Hypertech 93 octane tuning
On the day of the three dyno runs, that was my highest reading. I belive it was 71 degrees with super low humidity.
Sorry about the confusion there.
My 5.4 would probably make over 400 rwhp on that dyno with just my AF1, XCAL2, and exhaust
There is no way you are making anywhere near that kind of power, NONE !!
Somebody is setting you up to look bad by giving you that kind of information.
Find another dyno.....
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 1
From: spring, texas
Wow!
Thanks everyone. I will be at another dyno this weekend. Any reason why the dyno at the track would be so far off? That's really disheartening.
I actually did really well against stock 5.4's beating 5 of 6 in runs at the track. Only by 2 10ths of a second and that was using 1st and 2nd gear only.
If anyone knows of ACCURATE dyno shops in houston please let me know. I cant stand it when people BS.
Thanks everyone. I will be at another dyno this weekend. Any reason why the dyno at the track would be so far off? That's really disheartening.
I actually did really well against stock 5.4's beating 5 of 6 in runs at the track. Only by 2 10ths of a second and that was using 1st and 2nd gear only.
If anyone knows of ACCURATE dyno shops in houston please let me know. I cant stand it when people BS.
Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Originally Posted by malexander52
Wow!
Thanks everyone. I will be at another dyno this weekend. Any reason why the dyno at the track would be so far off? That's really disheartening.
I actually did really well against stock 5.4's beating 5 of 6 in runs at the track. Only by 2 10ths of a second and that was using 1st and 2nd gear only.
If anyone knows of ACCURATE dyno shops in houston please let me know. I cant stand it when people BS.
Thanks everyone. I will be at another dyno this weekend. Any reason why the dyno at the track would be so far off? That's really disheartening.
I actually did really well against stock 5.4's beating 5 of 6 in runs at the track. Only by 2 10ths of a second and that was using 1st and 2nd gear only.
If anyone knows of ACCURATE dyno shops in houston please let me know. I cant stand it when people BS.
Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Originally Posted by malexander52
Thanks! I liver super close to that place. I will check it out.
Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Houston TX
Originally Posted by MmmBuckles
do yall know where on 1960 it is? im right off barker and ive been dying to get mine on one. and how much does doing something like that normally cost?