Happy New Year to everybody:

I've been a member for a while and finnally got into some trouble that I could use your help guys.

My truck was running and the engine shut off. I tried to start it up again with no result. Hooked up my scanner and got a "no link" response meanning that I am not getting comunication with the computer. Then I notice that the odometer reads ------- . My guess is that I'm having trouble with the computer or the Thef system. Right now I'll get on the truck tomorrow to verify any blown fuses or loose connectors, but I need some information for example where is my computer located at????? Any good way to troubleshoot the Theft system???? voltages at the injectors or COP's????

I already disconnect the batt for a few minutes just in case and reconnect it with no good result. I saw the gauges doing the full sweep when reconnect the battery. The engine crank, but won't start. The check engine light is off.
The fuel pressure was checked and I got 40 PSI at the test valve on top of the engine with the ket at the Key on Position.

My truck is a 1999 F-150 5.4L engine with new COP and plugs replaced about six months ago.

Thank you in advance

Luis,
If don't leak,.. it may be empty!!!!

1999 F-150 5.4L
2000 Malibu 3.1L
1967 CJ-5 Jeep F-134
1954 Chevrolet 210 235

Do you understand the Signature now..!!!!

 

Luis,

First, thank you for the detail in the start of the thread.

In no specific order :

- Gauge sweep - Normal after disconnect of the battery. As long as it only does this one after you disconnect the battery, else it is a power item ( battery itself or the cables ).

- When it was running prior to shutting it off, you make no note of how it was running. Was it running well ( I can infer this, but I'd rather be 100% sure ).

- No link on the computer - Which ODB-II software / scanner are you using ? This could be a message telling you it cannot connect to the PCM, due to no power on the ODB-II connector. My Autotap and Actron scanners get power from the ODB-II port.
Fuse shared with the cigar lighter, fuse #3 in Passenger Compartment Fuse Panel.

- As you posted about the fuse check, pay attention to:
1. Fuse #2 in the Passenger Compartment Fuse Panel. This is the PCM and the cluster. What part of the cluster, at the moment I am drawing a blank, I will need to look this up, but the PCM part is why to lok at this one.
2. Fuse #15 in the Passenger Compartment Fuse Panel. This is for the PCM module inputs, along with the GEM.
3. Fuse #20 in the Passenger Compartment Fuse Panel. This is Audio, GEM and PCM power ( both the GEM and PCM have a few power inputs ).
4. Fuse # 30 in the Passenger Compartment Fuse Panel. This is PATS, cluster, Ign coils, and the PCM relay
#4 **-> I would think the Fuse # 30 is blown, due to the symptoms, but that is just a guess off the cuff from the inital list above.
5. Fuse #2 in the power distribution box ( engine compartment ). This is yet another PCM fuse.
6. Fuse # 18 in the power distribution box ( engine compartment ). This is another PCM along with the fuel pump ( which yours seems to be working with the fuel pressure ) and the MAFS.
7. Fuse # 23 in the power distribution box ( engine compartment ). This is a PCM, HEGO Sensors, and vent fuse.

- For the "Then I notice that the odometer reads -------" This is in theHEC, which is powered off the Cluster. The common PATS / Cluster / PCM fuse would be a first guess. This could be a seperate issue with the HEC, not part of the problem.

Any other work aside from the stuff 6 months ago like new exhaust system or xhst system work?
Even the smallest thing like adding a power socket for an additional item in the cab could be important, so I just wanted to check that nothing has been worked on in the past 6 months.

Take a look through the list, and let us know the results when you get a chance to look at it, or if you have any questions on it in the mean time.

Also what is the actual symptom when you try to start the truck, crank no start, no crank, etc.

The other Steve's should be around in short order to correct any of my mis-assumptions, or provide additional thoughts on the topic.

steve

 

Steve:

Thank you for the replay. Very good indeed. There are no other repairs or additions to the truck during the previous 6 months. The truck is completely stock except for a pair of fog lights and a CB radio installed about four years ago when I got the truck.

The truck was running good with no noticeable problems. I was waiting for the traffic light to make a U-turn and then all of the suddden, right in the middle of the turn the engine died.

I'm using an Actron CP9135. Don't know the software version, but I'll check that out tomorow and let you know.

Thank you.

 

Luis,

Thank you for the additional information on the additions to the truck.

Looking at the Actron 9135 user manual, on page 4-3 ( english section for me ) it shows the items to check for when a "link error" message is on the screen. Checking the fuse for the ODB-II port ( the one paired with the cigar lighter ).

I don't know if this is a manual revison level to scaner firmware change. I cannot find the error message "No link" in the manual that I am able to download ( again could be a revision change ).

Once you get a chance to check the fuses listed above, that could provide some mroe detail.

Thanks

Steve

 

Steve:

The No Link or Link Error message that I'm having it is related to not having good comunication to the computer. I recall reading that on the Actron owners manual, but I have an update for you.

I checked all the fuses in the fuse panel at the steering wheel and there is no blown fuses. I checked power on every fuse and I found a couple of them with no power. Those are F16, F18, F20, F21, F26, F27, and F28. Also noticed that the Theft Light keep blinking with the Key on engine off position meaning that I could have problems with my key or the PAT module as I learn yesterday looking at older post from other members.

I'm about 90% sure that my problem could be there. I don't have other key to check. If I go with my key to any locksmith shop who program these type of keys, It's there a way for them to check my key and tell if I'm having something wrong in there???? Is there a way that I could check or By-pass the pat module to see if the truck start???

I'll be checking on older posts to verify what are these fuses with no power related to in the meantime.

I'll get back if I found something else.

Thank you

 

JJEEEEZZZZZZZ, That was so easy that I feel ashamed of myself. Like you said Steve the F18 on the Power Distribution Box was blown. Replaced the darn fuse and the SOB fired up right away. You tell me that this also feed the fuel pump can you please confirm that to me, because I'm sure got fuel pressure on my rails.

Anyway as for now I'm going to drive the truck to see if the problem don't come on again because for now nothing had been changed and the reason for the blown fuse is unknown. I also know, doing another search on the forum, that somebody had exactly the same problem including the ------ reading on the odometer and everything about a year or two ago, but the guy never came back to tell the end of the story.

The fuse already cost me $45.00 for the tow truck and almost cost me a door glass because I have my truck on the street and was checking voltages on the fuse box with the Key on and close the door with the locks on. Spend about 2 hours trying to open the door and about 20 minutes to fire the engine. Arhhhhhh...!!!!!


I'll let you know.
Thank you very much

 

Luis,

No problem, glad to hear it was a simple fix.

The owners manual on Page 155 lists 2 fuses for the fuel pump.
Fuse #10 - 20A is the fuel pump circuit itself, that is through the Normally Open Contacts of the fuel pump relay
Fuse #18 - 15A is listed as the fuel pump, as well as the MAFS ( and something else ) which is the power to the fuel pump relay coil ( closes the Normally Open contacts, that completes the circuit for Fuse #10 ).

The fuel pressure you had, might have been from before it shut down. Maybe had to bleed off all the pressure, and turn the key on, it would not have started the fuel pump and built up pressure ( with the fuse for the coil being blown ).

Looking at some of the fuses you list above, it is possiable for those not to have power on them until something is sued.
examples :
Fuse 26&28 : Right and Left head light low beam, unless the mainheadlamp switch is on, these will be dead.
Fuse 27 : Fog lamp switch, the mainhead lamp switch needs to be in the on position, and the MFS in the low beam postion to get power here. Else it will be dead.

The blinking theft light is normal PATS operation ( a slow blink ) as an indicator that there is some sort of imoblizer in the truck.

If you only have 1 key, you can use a dealer or a locksmith that has a NGS PATS programmer, to add in the 2nd key. Once you have a 2nd key, you can add another 6 to the truck yourself. Just download an owners manual for a 2000 or newer, and the Securilock programming instructions are in there.

Maybe take a look around the MAFS, if the air filter was replaced as of late, a pinched wire for the MAFS could have caused this ?? Jsut a SWAG at the moment, and running your hands over the harness jsut to check would only take a few min.

Again, glad to hear it was an easy fix.

steve

 

Already found somebody that program the second key. I drove the truck for about 25 miles and no problem. I relieved the pressure on the rail 2 times when performing the pressure test. Also notice when turning the key to the off position it drop from 40 to about maybe 39 PSI.

But what still is bugging me is that PAT module. I don't whant to be at 2:00 AM on a road with a dead engine just because a darn modul is not working. I would like to know what could be done in case the PAT module or the key go nuts. I already got a friend at work with an F-150 with that problem. He had to get other coworker who lives near him to get to his house to get his second key and come the next day and start the truck. All this just because he left his key near a magnet and the key got the programming erased.

That was an easy fix for him. In my case I don't had the second key until now. But I gess that was my bad. I use my truck sometimes to work in remote areas sometimes 50 or 70 miles away from any urban areas. Even at 10:00 PM that situation is not good and sometimes I do that kind of emergency jobs that I finish very late in the night to go home.

I know maybe this is kind of sensitive information to some people to get discussed over the internet, but I want to get that thing bypassed or at least know where to go if I ran in that situation later-on.

Thank you for the help Steve.
flechaluis@yahoo.com

 

A PATS key is not like a credit card. it is a RFID tag that is programemd to the truck. Don't know what happened to his, but a magnet was not it.

Trade the truck in a a 1998 or older truck. PATS is not something that can be by passed in the truck. It is integrated into the HEC, which communicates over the SCP network to the PCM. Once the RFID tag in the key is compared against the list of RFID tags in the HEC, the HEC will send the message over the SCP comm network to the PCM, to enable the starter.
Sorry no way around it, aside from trading it off on a non PATS MY truck.

 

I've heard that a good dealer tech can turn off PATS inside the PCM using WDS, but I've never seen it done. For my '94 CV when I rewired it for an '00 engine, it was moot - I just swapped to a cop PCM which doesn't use PATS anyway.

 

Not as if Jeff L was the end all to techs, but he said no way. Now does that mean that is the final answer, not by any means.
Got me, if it is for real, I guess in all theory any thing can be done.
Don't know if there is a programming spot for the PATS enable message that should be coming from the HEC over the SCP.

When you did the '00 CV rewire, did you use the same instrument cluster from the '94 ? I guess it might not matter, considering the PCM is not looking for the message from the HEC on the SCP network.

I did notice that on my friend's CV for work, the "old school" keys. Did you get the remainder of the ign with the continual run function, where the switch is flipped, and the ign switch can be returned to what should be the off position, the wheel is locked, and the car still runs ?
Got that with the Ford Silver RMST, but it is only good for 10 min when enabled.

 

That "run-on" function is something added by police departments - it's not a factory feature. They do that at the same time they install the lights & sirens, and (usually) remove it before they sell the cars off.

The '99 cop PCM I'm using doesn't require any input from the HEC or any other module to work properly, so no; I didn't swap anything I didn't have to. That said: I swapped the ENTIRE engine bay harness & totally rewired the dash harness to accomodate it. You can see it all by clicking the tan CV in my signature & looking thru the 3 engine swap photo albums. There's one album dedicated to the wiring.