On Monday, my F-150 Supercrew (20,000 miles) with a Superchip installed died in the middle of the road in the middle of nowhere (deep in Dinosaur National Monument in Eastern Utah). I immediately suspected a computer problem as everything seemed normal except the odometer was reading --------- and all instrument panel lights came on when the key was turned in the ignition. Engine turned over fine, refused to start; acted like there was no spark.

Several hours and a $200 tow bill later, my truck was taken to the Ford dealership in Vernal, UT. The diagnosis? The Superchip fried the PCM! Now, I am taking this with a grain of salt. I am not even sure a functioning Superchip could all of a sudden "decide" to fry its host computer. I suspect this was just a convenient way to deny the warranty claim.

They did not claim the warranty was void because the Superchip was installed. They claim the Superchip was the reason for the PCM failure and stuck me with a $600 repair bill.

I have written a carefully worded letter to the dealership asking for the procedures and diagnostic results that proved the Superchip was the cause of the problem.

They say they install the chips frequently but their service documents indicates this will void the warranty. I believe this is illegal under Magnuson-Moss. It makes me wonder if they just assigned blame to the Superchip for a failed PCM; and it was a total and complete failure. The thing was definitely DOA.

Any advice?

 

did they give you the chip back? you can have it checked. and you might want to take a look at that new comp. is it really new?

 

They can claim all they want.
The claim that in the service document that installing a chip will void the warranty, this is not true. Magnuson-Moss states they must prove that the chip caused the failure. Saying it does not make it so.

If you note in the letter the sections of the Magnuson-Moss act that are important, they might have a different story.

Be sure to include a reply time in the letter, usually 14 calendar days is more then enough ( be sure to indicate calendar or business days or you get the longer of the 2 ).

Also make note that if the Dealer does not provide detailed information for the warrenty denial that you will be taking this matter to the DSB for further review ( owners manual gives the process for this, quoting this might also help ).

Usually noting Magnuson-Moss & DSB, gets thier attention.
They might straight away refund part or all of the money so they don't need to deal with it.

I am not condoning one method or another, but mentioning some key words might get them to take notice.
Just remember to address them as sir or Mr. So and So and keep your voice at an even tone, no yelling or swearing.

Just my 2 cents.

 

In answer to the prior post; yes, I got the chip back and I had thought about getting it tested.

My letter to the dealership makes no accusations, rather, I thank them for the expeditious manner in which they serviced my vehicle considering I was stranded until they could get it in. If they were members of the local chamber of commerce, they could have kept me there boosting the local economy much longer. Maybe the fact that my wife's cousin is the mayor of the adjoining town and he called everyone he knew at the dealership the night I was towed in helped just a little?

The computer appears to be new. They had it shipped in from Salt Lake City. Of course, the freight charge is on my bill

I have printed the Magnuson- Moss Warranty act and highlighted the pertinent sections. I have also included some information from the SEMA web site. I am approaching this in a non-confrontational manner. If they have evidence the Superchip was the culprit, I just asked to see it. I said 10 business days.

My father is a retired attorney looking to get "back in the saddle" if needed. I hope to keep him out of this and he would like that as well.

DSB? I'll check the owner's manual as you suggest. Thanks.

 

Your post has me about mad enough to kick the dawg!!!!!!!!! Typical Ford Dealership BULLS#*T.
Any Ford "techs" wanna tell us about how great they are?????????
There is not any way the chip can "fry" the computer. Call Mike over at superchips and tell him this story...he will throw a brain seal.
Follow SScullys advice. I would probably go down there with a ball bat and see how many **** ants I could take out...but that is just my way of dealing with scum that tries to jack me up. Those fricking worms feel all warm and fuzzy while they jerk someone around...they might have a second thought if a body was to open a can of whoop a*s on them....
It is really too bad that the best selling pick up is sold by the worst companies in existance.

Now that I got that off my chest.....I guess that story is another good reason to pull the chip and reset the computer before taking the truck in for service.

Rocks

 

Sounds like your dealer had you for lunch.

Sorry you got stranded but that is why I got a Diablo Sport Chip, been in the shop twice since the install and never been a word mentioned as to aftermarket add-ons for my truck.

Diablo is reconized by Ford Motor Company thatis why all the dealers around here offer them to new and used car/truck customers.

So you going to reinstall the chip?

Showya

 

I hope you know where your old computer is. You should have it, not Ford. My guess is your chip worked it's way loose, truck dies, Ford tries to run a test, which fails because the chip will throw some codes, they replace the computer. Rule #1 Always remove the chip before any service. Did you try and start the truck with the chip out?

 

Unfortunately, I was not in a position to be able to remove the chip before it went in for service. I definitely thought of that stranded in the middle of nowhere waiting for a tow. The problem is I had taken my tool box out that very morning to do some work on my Sea Doos and had left my tools back in the camp with the watercraft. I have one of those trucks on which tha battery must be removed to get to the computer.

I don't think the chip worked loose. I had it taped on very tight and I could feel it firmly on the computer up under the dash on the passenger side. I just couldn't get it off from there.

My one mistake was not asking for the old computer to be returned. I didn't think of that until 100 miles down the road.

I cannot reinstall the chip. The dealer specifically told me I now have a new computer with a new code and that my UAT2 chip will not work on whatever I have now. They also claim that these aftermarket computer chips are known to ruin the transmission. Funny, I liked my tranny a whole lot better with the chip. I was so used to the way the truck drove with the chip, that it feels sluggish and powerless now.

 

OR you could do it that way, and get 8-1/3 to 15 for aggrevated assult with intent....That would also solve the problem with the truck, sitting in a garage for that long it might get lot rot <g>

Rock...have another shot of Jeager...or what ever mood altering drink you got....sounds more then beer to me <g> ( just kidding don't be takin a can of whoop *** off the shelf on account of me )

 

LMAO........


Rocks

 

I'm sorry to hear that you've been put in this situation. Statisticly it will happen to someone.
I think one of the major problems when dealing with the dealership is that they really don't have much knowlege about tuning chips. The have been trained to deal with OE parts. I think it tends to confuse some of them a bit when it comes to aftermarket add ons. They will always try to appear as though they know everything about our trucks but the fact is we probably have more info right here than they do dealing with the problems that come to them. They aren't "wrong", they just don't seem to be able to think beyond the service manual.
I have a few mods at this point, which are impossible to hide. I let them know that I understand that if there is a faluer due to the mods that there is justification to deny a claim. I also let them know that I realize that there is a whole lot of truck that has not been modified or affected by the modifications and I expect that warranty claims will be honored. They have been real good with me. I have found that with this dealership honesty is the way to go. I think that if I had a problem and couldn't remove the chip I would ask that they start with it in thier diagnosis. It could save me and the dealership a lot of time and money.
There is risk when modding any vehicle. There is no way around it. Being as informed as you possibly can can go a long way.
Good luck getting everything straightened out!

 

Hello LRM & Everyone,

First, we're of course very sorry to hear you're going thru that!

Superchips can test the ECU and the Superchip to determine if the ECU has actually failed in any way, and if so, if there was any relationship between the ECU failing and the Superchip being used. Superchips has always had a firm policy of replacing the customer's ECU at their expense if a properly installed Superchip has anything to do with the failure of an ECU.

The first thing that should have been done was to remove the chip, regardless of what type of chip is used. Chances are, the vehicle will fire right up, as it's almost always just a simple conection-related issue when something like this happens, though on occasion an ECU will fail, stock or not, they can and do fail, even on new vehicles.

Having a vehicle towed into a dealership under a no-start or stall complaint with any performance chip attached is, unfortunately with some dealerships, literally begging for trouble, so to speak.

Ford dealership service departments do not have the ability to test the ECU or the performance chip to see if there actually was any correlation between the 2. When you have any performance chip attached to the ECU and Ford's WDS system (which is problem-plagued in itself) is used to attempt diagnostics, they will not even be able to communicate with the ECU properly, because the WDS system cannot communicate with the ECU when any performance chip (regardless of brand) is attached to the J3 connector! This has nothing to do with the performance chip itself, this happens with the WDS system when that J3 circuit is engaged. And dealerships that are either lacking in knowledge or those out to gouge you (which are few in number, thankfully, most dealerships are competent & honest!) will immediately assume the ECU has failed, because they cannot communicate with it. They are not going to attempt to do any real troubleshooting of the ECU itself or why it failed if it actually did fail, they just call it bad and replace the ECU. They don't have the abilty to test the ECU & chip to see if there is actually any relationship between the 2 in the failure.

In other cases, when the older SBDS system is used, you'll get a P0605 error code anytime a performance chip is attached, for the same reason, that J3 circuit has been engaged, which is something that is not used at the dealership level for anything, so they generally don't know how it actually works. The P0605 error code tells the technician that the ECU's internal EEPROM chip is not functioning, which it's *supposed* to do anytime a performance chip is attached to the ECU, that is perfectly normal, and goes away immediately when the chip is removed. However, many technicians will assume this means that the ECU has failed when in reality it hasn't failed at all.

The bottom line is, any performance chip *must* be removed in order for the ECU to communicate properly with diagnostic equipment at the dealership service department level. This is one of the reasons why our Performance Products documentation points out to *remove* the chip prior to going in for service, and to remove it in the event of any no-start or stall, etc. This should be done with *any* performance chip, not just a Superchip, they are all the same in this regard, anything that connects to J3 should be removed prior to diagnostics or in the event of a no-start, etc.

LRM, as far as getting this into the courts, I can't advise you there as I'm not a lawyer of course, but it seems that it would be much better if you had that original ECU available for testing. They (the dealership) are going to have to *prove* that the chip was in fact the direct and sole cause of the ECU's failure, and they will also have explain how and why Ford ECU's fail in stock unmodified condition but that your failure was not a "normal" failure of the ECU, that is was in fact cause by the chip. That's going to be extremely hard for them to do. Ford ECU's, just like every other automaker's powertrain computers (and most parts of any kind), can, will and do fail from time to time, even on a brand new vehicle. So your unit needs to be *tested* specifically for this, and if you can arrange to get that ECU back, we can assist you with getting it tested by Superchips, along with your Superchip, to determine if the cause of failure was related to the Superchip. This is something your father is going to want to know if he intends to get "back in the saddle," as you call it, and please feel free to call us, and/or have your father call us, we'll be happy to speak with you and/or him about this in detail.

We of course hate to see anyone go thru what LRM has gone thru here, so here are a few points just as a reminder to those who will read this thread.............

1.) Remove any performance chip in the event of a no-start, stall, etc. as well as prior to going in for service so that the ECU can properly communicate with diagnostic hardware & software. In a pinch, if this happens out of the road, any performance chip can be removed from a late-model F-150, Expedition, etc. in just a minute or two with no tools. Simply remove the black plastic pressure clip that holds the ECU to it's mounting bracket, and that will allow you access to the rear of the ECU to remove the chip. As long as the ignition is off (and take the keys out of the ignition to make sure), no current is being sent thru that circuit and you can remove the chip to see if the vehicle will start right up, as they usually do, unless the ECU has actually failed outright. (Make sure to put the black plastic retaining clip back on so the back of the ECU can't move around)

2.) Anytime someone has a problem that they think might be related to their performance chip, or is in a situation in which a dealership is attempting to blame the Superchip (or any other performance chip) for the failure of an ECU, *immediately* contact your vendor (whoever you purchased your performance chip from) for assistance and advice before authorizing repairs. For example, we would have the customer (or the dealership) send in the ECU and the Superchip for testing to see if the ECU is actually bad, and if so, what was the cause of the failure. If it's related to the use of a properly installed Superchip, Superchips will directly provide the replacement ECU. If the ECU has failed but it is not related to the use of the Superchip, they will provide documentation stating that they have tested both parts (the ECU and the Superchip), and that there is no correlation, so that the customer can pursue their claim.

3.) With specific regard to keeping the original ECU, anyone can very easily do that, it *belongs* to you, the vehicle owner, that does not belong to the dealership! You might have to pay a small core charge, some dealers will require that, but there is no case in which you cannot keep your own property, your old ECU is not required by the dealership to get a new one. You may have a harder time pursuing your claim without it.

4.) Make sure to check the fuse in the Power Distribution Box under the hood for the circuit to the ECU, as sometimes that fuse blows and that's all the problem is, but sometimes a dealership will replace the ECU anyway. Rare, and not needed, but can happen.

LRM, if there is anything we can do to assist you (or your father if he gets involved), please don't hesitate to call us, we'll be happy to speak with you and your father if that might be helpful, and if you can get that ECU, we can arrange for it to be tested along with that Superchip.

Also, if they did not replace your ECU with an identical UAT2-code as you mention you originally had, then your Superchip will need to be reprogrammed to match the new ECU's code so you can enjoy it once again. The Superchip is *not* going to damage your automatic transmission, contrary to what that dealership claimed, nor is it going to damage your new ECU, so if you want to use it, you should.

Just as an aside, from your description of the Superchip being firmly attached to the ECU and so you feel that it could not have come "loose," if that is the case your ECU may indeed have just failed outright, assuming it wasn't the fuse underhood. That does happen on occasion, it's not frequent, but these ECU's do indeed fail from time to time, and it can either be a sudden thing or a more drawn out process.

We hate that you're going thru this, and I want to congratulate and compliment you for standing up for your rights in a professional manner and pursuing this properly. Everyone needs to do that, and if we can do anything to help, please don't hesitate to call us!

 

Here is a URL for some info on the After Market Mods
http://www.pacchips.com/htm/warranty.htm

I only keep this url for the info, not the product.

When talking with the dealer, you can quote the Ford Owner Relations Division statement.

In addition to the BSD, you can also tell them that you are gong to call the FTC at (202) 326-3128, if you do not get a resoultion.

The BBB is another one you can sling at them, prior to the BSD.
You would have to ask if a BSD is considered a lawsuit under the BBB reporting rules.

Just a few other tid-bits to try to help out.

sms