Ive heard that I can get even better fuel mileage if I advance the spark using my Edge Evo, but by how much??

Ive heard that I can advance until I hear ping, and then back it off a bit. But im no expert so I dont want to screw it up. Ive only played around with it a very little bit and the most I have set it was at .75* ahead, but there must be a more scientific way of figuring out the proper setting.

The other issue that I am sure is a factor but im not sure how it effects ping, is the outside air temperature. As im over in the Middle east and just getting int summer, its starting to get hot and will only get hotter. At the moment we are high 30's low 40's (degrees C) and due to get as hot as high 40's.

Any suggestions?

 

a safer way to do it is to send your POS edge evo in to PHP have Bill convert it to a gryphon and provide you with a cutom tune

 

you do realize he is from the U.A.E. not saying it'd be impossible but shipping will cost him as much as the programmer.

DBX the spark timing is relative to the octane rating, i don't know what rating method is used over there. in the US it's stamped on the pump. best bet is to find out what method is used and call edge, or email them.

 

Contact Bill@PHP.
www.gopowerhungry.com

 

Why is everyone hating on edge programming? Didnt Bill write all of the programs exclusively for Edge? If so wouldnt that directly be saying that his tunes are ****ty? I could be mistaken but I thought that I read somewhere that Bill wrote the tunes for Edge.

 

the EDGE Evo is the one that is a canned tuning device the GRYPHON is a better version of the edge evolution

 

There is nothing wrong with the Edge tunes. There is just more to be had with a custom tune.

I would not mess with the spark advance at all except in instances when you are running level 3 and have 93 octane. Since the tune was written for 91 octane, you can advance it plus 1.0 to take advantage of the 93.

 

You say canned tuning like its a bad thing. Custom tuning IMO is having the car at the tuner being worked on. That way so they can see what exactly is going on. Anything else is just a mail order tune, very effective but will still leave a little on the table. No two cars will respond the same way to mods so there is no way to get the perfect tune unless your car is at the shop.

As soon as the Gryphon CS is ready for the 10s I will be placing my order. I am only going to order one "custom tune" and that will be a 87 performance. My plan is to get the truck dynoed on just a transmission tune, 87 custom performance tune, and a 93 canned edge tune. Im curious to see if the custom 87 tune will out do the 93 canned tune.

If you really want to mess with your timing the easiest thing to do is go out and purchase a scan gauge. You can monitor your knock sensor and adjust your timing accordingly. Like I said earlier with the canned tunes most of the time they leave a little on the table so a degree of timing shouldnt hurt. Just monitor your knock sensor voltages.

 

^^^ a couple datalogs and that solves the issue of (for example) shipping my Harley truck back accross the Atlantic or making the 600 mile (each way) trip to a dyno tuner so I can just datalog it on the street or track anyway

 

tarajerame, that opening comment was hilarious! But im not family with the Gryphon. Anything I have heard is the same that has been said in this post, which isnt much.

BlueJay Im using the Performance #3 setting and have advanced the spark by 1* and it seems to be fine. Did hear the slightest bit of knock the other day, but it hasnt come back. Not sure what it was about that day, but it seems to run fine at the moment. But I dont want to cause any damage because my ear wasnt sensitive enough to hear the slighest bit of knock, hence why im looking for some better guidance.

As for fuel, ive looked into that in the past, hard to know how the rate the octane over hear. I use the best they have and its listed as 98 octane. Will have a closer look on the next fill up.

used2vtec you mention knock sensor voltages. No idea what youre talking about, can you explain? maybe I can get some info that I can share here.

As for temperature, are there any guidelines for setting spark advance. For example high the temperature the more advance you can set and vise versa?

 

Tendency to knock increases with ambient temperture. Advance tolerance is also dependent on engine Load, IAT's, A/F's, etc. Global spark adders is a realchitty way to go about this (hence the granularity advantage of a true Custom tune)

Displaying knock sensor voltage or the equivalant PID is fruitless - you need to datalog it to capture anything remotely useful - the system reacts in milliseconds to any detectable incipient knock, and the PCM PULLS yer timing (retard - and, no, not you, lol)., so you will actually hurt performance unless you have a nice octane buffer to work in.

Here's the PID's : http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92

I would leave it alone. Or as suggested get a proper custom tune.

MGD

 

However, if your fuel is rated at 98 octane, my guess is that rating is a "Research Octane" number. The octane ratings the programmers all use are the average of Research and Motor octane numbers, "(R + M ) / 2".

My guess is, if the OP was able to advance the spark by 1 degree, his fuel's equivalent (R + M)/2 octane rating is around 92-93.

The fact that he heard a bit of knock now that the temps are higher though suggests to me that he should reduce the spark advance by at least 0.5 degrees.

As MDG said, when the PCM pulls timing, it overreacts, and cuts the timing too much, which will hurt performance.

I'd reduce the advance until there's no ping and then just leave it alone, regardless of temperature.

- Jack

 

When I was at the pump last I asked the attendant what the octane rating was, with a dazzed look and a hmmm, it said 98. I asked how it was calculated, and that sent the attendant into a further tailspin. Ive even looked on the website of the gas company and no luck. I suspect your right J&J. Ive been away for so long now I dont remember but whats the highest octane fuel you can buy back in North America these days?

As for the spark, truck seems to be running real good but im keeping a close ear to hear for ping again. As for the degree of spark advance, I would have thought 1 degree would almost be insignificant. I guess i could summate that if the advance and retard are measured in 1/4 of a degree that it is pretty sensitive. But how sensitive is it really?

As for ping, under what driving conditions is the the engine most susceptible to ping?

Thanks

 

If you have it advanaced plus one and it pinged, then to be safe, I would suggest not advancing at all. The pinging is not good.

 

Hey BlueJay,

Fair enough, but i dont know much about ping at all expect to know what it sounds like. Just looking for some extra info on the subject. Maybe you can help?

P.S. does your handle have anything to do with a baseball team?? ;-)