OK, I'll start it off the same as everyone else who knows about the hot button topics and not searching for them first...please don't burn me for asking, I've searched through the previous posts and haven't found the answer to what I'm looking for...there, disclaimer is out of the way, LOL.

I've been in the market for a tuner over the past month or two, and I was almost dead set on the Gryphon (I like the gauges...I'm a pilot/mechanic and I like having trend analysis).....and then the wonderful team at PHP decided to jump into the SCT bandwagon as well, bringing another custom tuning player in addition to VMP and Troyer for the SCT products.

SO...now I'm really leaning towards a SCT product but can't decide whether to stick with the XCal2/3 (does the 2005 F150 need the upgrade to the XCal3?) or go with the Livewire.


My question(s) are as follows:

1. What advantages/options does the Livewire present over the XCal, other than visual information all the time mounted in plain sight?

2. Does anyone sell both products other than the three companies listed, and if so are they competitively priced?

3. Does the XCal and Livewire "lock" in with a specific vehicle when tuning (requiring the truck be returned to stock before the next vehicle is tuned), or can you tune multiple vehicles at one time?


Current pricing as of today (9/22/08) is:

VMP
XCal2/3 - $395 with custom tunes
Livewire - $569 with canned tunes, $599 with custom tunes
extra tunes at $59

Troyer
XCal2 - $449 with custom tunes
Livewire - $569 with canned tunes, $649 with custom tunes
extra tunes at $65

PHP - No info as of yet on SCT products


As of right now, my plan is to buy a tuner from VMP with custom tunes, then after getting accustomed to the truck and the characteristics of the tunes, I'll purchase a set of tunes from PHP and Troyer and repeat. Then when I find the time, money and local dyno, I'll add my $.02 (ok, more like $250 worth lol) and compare all three with hard data. I just need to decide between Livewire and XCal.


SOOO...please excuse the information overload, but I believe it all pertinent to show my reasoning as to who to buy from initially. All I need to determine now is whether to go with the Livewire or not. I'm leaning towards YES but if there's an option or two that really sweetens the deal then I'll jump on it in a heartbeat.

Thanks in advance to all the tuning gurus and current SCT owners. Remember to play nice with each other...

 

1, livewire has gauges thats about it

2, yes lots of companies out there sell them one more is jusnesmodified.com http://www.jusnesmodified.com/store/...th=156_161_233

3, yes you need to return to stock unless if you want to clear the programmer and install new tunes onto it and put those on the next vehicle but then you loose the factory tune for the first vehicle...

 

Thanks azmidget on the quick responses...I figured that's what I'd have to do to unlock it but wanted to make sure.

So the Livewire only has gauges to show PCM information? Then why do VMP and Troyer both tout how the Livewire has more features over what the XCal offers, even stating that it's more than what a basic user would need?

I know that it has capabilities to receive in more data than just from the PCM, such as A/F ratio info from a wideband sensor, but that costs extra to add on for the wideband sensor and cable. I'm looking for what features it has base over the XCal...it can't be $200 more just for gauges/appearance.

Anyone else own a Livewire or have used one, or know the tech specs on both the Livewire and XCal?

 

NTXRockr,
Very eloquently written post and very informative ...
AS I find my self in similiar circumstances , in as far as trying to select a tuner myself .Being interested in the gauge aspect like you mentioned .
Nice Job on doing all that research I feel like I am bangin my head like you said "information overload"

 

the live wire is like the gyrpon thing and edge it has those type of gauges, either way i dont tink you can gop wrong sct has binthe best ive used, out of hypertech,edge,diablo,jet, and bully dog. troyer has a long wait as i should kno im still waiting but good things come to those who wait! (i hope)

 

Ok, so I've pretty much decided that I like the Livewire and will go with it, but is it worth the gamble of getting one of eBay or elsewhere secondhand for $200-300+ and chance it being DOA?

$600 new with custom tunes is kind of pricey - and I'd love to get one for $300 or less plus the $60 custom tunes - but I haven't heard many stories from members buying DOA tuners secondhand (and those that did were Edge's...). Is it a definite good buy or not worth the gamble? Anything that VMP or Troyer would offer if it was DOA (i.e. an exchange program for a small fee)?

 

I've used the Xcal2 for my Ranger and had great results with it. I guess if you wanted to monitor the gauges you could keep a laptop in the truck and connect it to the Xcal2. Who ever tunes your truck should give you all the needed software to install on a laptop.

 

Isn't the software an additional $100-150 or something like that? I have a great laptop but don't want to lug it around just to monitor my setup, but I would use it to tweak and tune. I think that it's easier to monitor trends and troubleshoot problems when it's staring right at you in a monitor. Plus, everyone adds gauge pods or columns to their truck to monitor certain systems...this does the same plus more.

 

So have you decided what you're going to go with yet?

 

I didn't pay extra for the software. I remember paying around 350 for my Xcal2 and tunes.

So is this Troyer Performance who everyone goes to for SCT tuning? I just got my FX2 screw yesterday and am looking at getting it tuned.

 

VMPTuning.com

 

So far I'm bidding on a 4 month old Livewire and figure I'll try and get one that way. If I can find one under $300 then it's definitely worth it versus paying $550 new.

I'll probably tinker with it for a couple of weeks since I have an exhaust setup on the way and plan on getting an S&B intake very soon, and I'll order my tunes from VMP when both are installed. Then after toying with those tunes for a month or two I'll look into tunes from Troyer and/or PHP.

 

I would go with an x2 or x3, I don't think the LW is worth the extra money for most people.

 

your idea sounds great, problem is....

from my point of view everyone likes something different, some like a firm shift others like it smooth, some are concerned with towing, others with speed. Some are looking for mpg, others want to do burn outs.

the most logical thing would be to accept the fact that they all do a good job, all have the potential to have a problem. All have shown good customer service.

like everything else in life, learn to be a smart buyer, dont believe some peoples hype. drop each one a call or email, talk about your situation and your goals and then make a purchase on your research.

i firmly beleive this section could have a FAQ section that answered 95% of the question.

most post could be answered with;

1. call your vendor
2. return to stock, call your vendor
3. or contact troyer, vmp or php, all have many happy customers.

 

BrotherDave, as far as what you're saying it sounds like you think I'm trying to decide on which vendor to buy the hardware from...I've already decided that, and was simply informing others on why and how I came to my conclusion (like you said, there needs to be a FAQ or sticky on this topic to rid the forum of dozens of the same repeat questions). I assume that I'll tinker with the canned tunes to find what qualities I like, such as shift firmness, perfomance qualities, etc. I want a combination of all the selections you posted...87 performance (for good mpg and decent power gains), 87 tow, and 93 performance (for when I'm racing/looking for trouble). After I find what I'm looking for in the tunes, I'll forward this along when I'm buying a set of tunes so they can factor this into their own tuning ideas...that way we're comparing apples to apples.

I know that if I buy new it'll be from VMP, due to the fact they put out a quality tune (many happy customers on here) and their turnaround time is outstanding. I also know that my first set of tunes will be from VMP as well...there again, same reasoning. My second set will either be from Troyer or PHP, since Troyer will be slightly delayed (I can wait for a quality product) and PHP isn't up and running yet with their SCT products and tunes. And since I'll have time in between each set to play around with, I can make a good observation of each. When I finally have all three I'll dyno and post information comparing the sets - since they'll all be tailored to my preferences it should be a close comparison. But there will always be slight differences in each tuner's methods of how they get power gains where and when, everyone knows that.

So as far as what you've posted...I already know what I want as far as tuning and where and when to buy.....my only question really was whether the Livewire was worth the extra pennies (OK, twenty thousand pennies lol) versus the XCal. I know about preference to gauges or none, etc. I was interested in posted claims about the Livewire expanding on the XCal2/3 and offering more options than they both have. I haven't been able to find any specifics on what it offers over the XCal.

If the Livewire was $100 more than the XCal, we wouldn't be having this conversation...I would've jumped on it already since I'm the type of person who uses all the information coming to him (try flying sometime...several dozen gauges and other sources of info coming at you at all time. You can't pull over on a cloud...). But since it's quite a bit more then I want to see if it's really worth the jump up to it before dropping a good amount of cash on one.