You are so very welcome, Jack.

Just so everyone knows... the majority of my posts about anything "technical" like this are Billy's words that are being posted under my screen name (he just doesn't have the time to play on the forums!). I know that he is respected for the knowledge he has, and I'm in no way on his level of expertise! Please know that when in doubt, I ask him the questions, and he -- literally -- tells me what to write... sometimes paraphrased but often word for word.

I will e-mail Shane and ask him your question, Jack. And as for Bill's thoughts on it, HE was actually the one who asked Shane if dealers can detect if the computer has been reprogrammed when we met him in Kentucky, so his knowledge base is similar to mine. (Heckuva dizzying sentence...) I will, of course, ask him for his input, though.

 

Thank you again Corey, and of course I knew you were doing "secretarial" work for Bill. (But, look at all you're learning!)

And, I think Toolcrib said it right too. He and I and probably lots of others apprediate honesty more than anythng else.

I'm understanding though, from what you've said, that the Gryphon/Edge does not restore the previous "flash state" bit (which is probably not how things are recorded after all). Now I'm guessing there may be a "flash counter" in the PCM that records the number of times the unit is flashed. Anythng over the "official" number could be seen as an unauthorized flash.

Anyway, again, thanks for everything!

- Jack

 

I Still would Like to see a comment from Troyer, with all his years working on Fords,of the validity of the dealer to detect the tuner, on a 5.4 Gas engine 2004-08.

 

Call Troyer.

Phone: 540-965-7126

 

Hey guys, i have very limited access to a computer right know so i will try to clarify as much as i can. anytime the pcm is reprogrammed by the dealer or the owner it will set the drive cycle code if you dont complete a drive cycle within a certain amount of key cycles. everytime the pcm is reflashed it is logged. ford can look and tell that the computer was reflashed so many key cycles ago if they want to. dont be afraid, this only happens when something drastic happens, throw a rod or something like that any major major catostrophic engine failure, if it runs bad or starts knocking or something fairly common you will be fine. A failure that is not common, (thrown rod etc...) it will be investigated by a ford engineer. he will come to the dealer, examine the vehicle and failed parts and make a decision based on his findings. In all actuality a programmer only on a stock vehicle will not be a problem. if you know that you are taking it in, put it back stock a couple of days before if possible and the drive cycle code will be taken care of. if it comes up for some odd crazy reason, just say the battery went dead. Most techs dont even look or dont know how to look for this stuff. I have had first hand experience with this and a ford engineer on a lightning, it threw a rod and ford came to the dealer and the engineer knew that it was reprogrammed, the claim was denied. Like i said only on un-common failures does it even really become an issue. I hope i helped out some. I will look back here first chance i get it might be a few days, i recently lost my dad so im pretty busy. take care guys.....Shane

 

Thanks, Hon! Saved me an e-mail. LOL

 

Thank you Shane, thank you Corey. Makes sense to me!

Shane, it's rough losing a parent, I know. My Mother died about two years ago and I still miss her. Take care of yourself.

- Jack

 

Shane,

Dork that I am, I totally missed that little sentence about your dad. Please know that you, your wife, and daughters are in our prayers.

 

That has been my undersrtanding of these PCM's, they don't have some unlimited ability to store any changes that have been made. That restoring the thing to stock programming and putting a couple days driving on it would make everything appear, as far as the PCM is concerned, to be as stock as it was from the factory. Or from the last dealer re-flash.

I have a nice RED CAP covering my OBDII port, which says, "DO NOT REFLASH-CONSULT OWNER".

I love that thang.. LOL

 

like I say, I will almost certainly end up getting a tuner for my truck.... But I definately want to give the truck a good solid break in and testing, first. Then, when I'm sure the truck was built solid from the factory (99%+ chance, right ? :-) I will go on and get a tuner, plus have it programmed by one of the pros.

Peace,
Fish

 

Glue that cap on with a touch of Super Glue. You think that will really stop some wrench monkey if he wanted to flash your PCM? I have the same cap. I remember pointing it out once to the service adviser & tech at my local dealership. They both kind of laughed, chuckled, and snickered. They said something about "why would we even look under the dash when you're in here for an oil change?" Then they mentioned that they never do anything for free. Before they do any work, they want to make sure that I know that it's going to be done, and that I'll be paying for it.

So, if there is some strange reason that I need a re-flash, they'll get me to agree to pay, before they do the work. Kind of makes sense. Like when I need brakes, they just don't give me new brakes then hope I'll pay for it. They always tell me what I need to pay for, then I agree, then the work gets done. That would be like hiring a guy to do yard work, only to find out later that he also painted 3 rooms inside your house; without your permission, and then he expects payment for unauthorized work.

Come to think of it; in all these years, not once have I ever needed a re-flash and not once has any dealership or independent mechanic tried to sell me a re-flash. Most of these trucks only go in for oil, lube, & filter. Sometimes they change your transmission fluid or fuel filter. And of course, brake jobs. Is there any regular maintenance, like topping off fluids & rotating tires, that requires the PCM to be flashed?

 

(cool screen name BTW :-)

When you said > Most of these trucks only go in for oil, lube, & filter. Sometimes they change your transmission fluid or fuel filter. And of course, brake jobs. <

Most of 'what' trucks ? I'll tell you what, to each their own, but I avoid dealers like the plague ! Okay, so I'm fortunate enough to have a good buddy who is a certified mechanic (and my 'mechanical genious' idol :-) who does all of my servicing for me, plus any repairs from small to large, mechanical, or electrical.
But even if I didn't, I'd find somebody like him (or as close as possible) to do this stuff for me.

Personally speaking, the only thing I'd ever consider bringing my truck back to the dealer for, would be for something that was under warranty...... and even then, I'd rather pay $40 or $50 on a part, and either throw it in myself, or let my mechanic friend throw it in for $20..... Than to leave my truck at a dealership, out of my site for even 1 hour.... let alone a day or two.

Call me paranoid.... But I avoid those vultures at all costs.

My apoligies to any dealer service people who might read this. I've just had either "no luck" or "bad luck" every time I've had to bring a vehicle to a dealer for anything in the past.

Fish

PS, Bought my Hyundai at a local dealership 16 months (26K miles) ago, and have only left it with them once, for a couple hours, for a door panel, that started peeling. Sure hope I never have to bring it back to them again either....

 

FORD F-150s. This is an F-150 forum.




I don't bash anything that isn't Ford, just because it isn't Ford. I'm also in the market for another car. I'm looking at something about $15,000, and no more than $20K.

In the Ford line, the most bang for the buck that I'll get is out of a 4.0L V6 Mustang with a stick shift. Price-wise, with local dealerships selling base Mustangs @ $14,995, that puts the Mustang right up against the Honda Fit & Civic, Toyota Yaris & Carolla, Mazda 3, Chevy Aveo & Cobalt, and perhaps something out of the Kia & Hyundai lines. How did you decide on Hyundai?

The first consideration was budget, with the second being desirability, and the third being mileage. My local Chevy offers the Aveo @ $8,888. That's under $10K w/ tax & title; 34 MPG. After I factored in the fuel savings (compared to the F-150), with the fuel cost rising by 10% yearly, the car pays for itself. That's like spending what I already do on fuel, but getting that car for free. However, after a test drive, I just won't be happy in that little thing, no matter how great the price is. That would rule out the Ford Focus, along with Honda's Fit & Toyota's Yaris. It's hard to step down to 3 or 4 cylinders with 105 horsepower, from a big truck.