I have a question about custom tunes. It seems that most ODBII tuners all have the same adjustment features that are available for each car/truck. So the people who do the custom tunes (for any ECM flash device) actually doing something that is not possible from the settings within the tuner. Or, are they basicly just using their expierence/knoledge to make setting changes to the already available options (MAF, WOT fuel curve, engine timing, etc...).

 

There seems to be some confusion about custom tuning when it comes to handheld (or dash mounted ) programmers.

In most cases, people are referring to custom tuning as having calibrations specifically designed for their particular application. This could be tuning for specific fuels (87, 93, 100, etc.), climates (hi altitude, sea level, Alaska cold or Death Valley hot), usage (towing, racing, fuel economy), or modification (cams, CAIs, exhausts, forced induction, etc).

Aside from that, there are the "custom tuned" options available on most programmers which allow for further tweaking of the "tuned" calibrations which come with the units. This isn't what I would really consider "custom tuning" in the general sense of the term, any more than I would consider choosing between red or black paint as a "custom" truck.

I think we really need to come up with some very distinct terms to help avoid confusion down the road. My suggestions would be:

• Custom Tuning - Calibrations designed by a calibration expert specifically tailored to a customer's needs.
  
• Optional Tuning - User modification of the calibration, whether canned or custom, in order to further refine the calibration characteristics.

Of course, we should all consider how to handle these terms and suggest other possibilities but for the time being I will use these to address future questions.

Hope this helps.

Bill

 

I would consider the tunes that you can get from Troyer Performance to be "custom tunes", and what Bill said in his post backs this up.

Troyer asks very detailed questions about your specific vehicle and the way your drive and use the vehicle before writing your tunes.

Granted, this is not the same thing as having access to a local shop with a well-earned reputation that can put your vehicle up on the dyno and measure every parameter before tuning.

Second to having that available I believe that the best "custom" tuning available for these trucks is what Troyer does.

I have nothing against any Edge products, many folks here love Edge.

I guess my point is that while "canned" tunes, such as Edge and others offer, will get to you quicker.. why would you want or need tunes that require a lot of asking Bill, or others, "what's wrong, how do I fix 'xyz'?"

Just take a look at all of the "Edge problem please help.." threads here..

 

Just because Troyer takes 3 months at times and asks a lot of questions, IMO doesn't make it custom. I bet if truth be told. A lot of the custom tunes are pretty much if not the same as the next guy down the line. But I do agree, putting it on a dyno for a baseline and measuring parameters is the best.

 

If Line-X is the best, why would anyone buy cans of that stuff at Kragen and paint on their own sloppy bed liner with a roller & brush?

If you can buy a cold air intake for a couple of hundred bucks, why are guys screwing around with PVC pipe?

Why would anyone get the quarter pounder without the cheese?

Why have an ugly girl when you can have a fat one?

Why hook up with other guys when there are plenty of girls to go around?

To save a couple of bucks, of course.

 

Hmm.. let's see here..

My tunes from Troyer took exactly 8 weeks.. The wait time is shorter now.

Troyer requires you fill out a 4 page worksheet detailing all your mods and how you use the truck..

I may be wrong, but all Edge asks is for your CC#.. "these tunes are good at WOT for a whole range of PCM's / vehicles..

Again, just look at all of the posts here asking "wtf is wrong with my Edge?", vs. "Troyer nailed it for me!"

Hope that helps!

 

I think another reason might be that some of us have farily large variations in our driving parameters. If I drive my F150 down into Mexico and am concerned about getting around lots of 18 wheelers on 2-lane roads at one time and then if I'm pulling a trailer over Monarch Pass in Colorado (11,300 ft) and don't want to be causing a traffic slowdown; well, I need something that is not quite specific to where I live. It has to be a "generalized" compromise between all the "optimum" tunes for these conditions.

I'm not knocking these custom tunes. I'm just saying they might not be what everyone of us needs.

- Jack

 

I'm not sticking up for Edge. I'm just saying I don't think Troyers tunes are as custom as people make it seem. If I make you fill out 5 sheets and wait 9 weeks and all I do is advance the timing for premium octane. Does that make mine more custom?

Bottom line a real Custom = Dyno tune.

 

I hear ya, but then again Troyer can write tunes for all the conditions you describe.

Performance tunes, tow tunes, economy tunes..

Yeah it might mean 5 minutes to stop and switch the tunes, but hey.. All I can say is that I've been running Troyers tunes on my '05 4.6L Screw for a bit over a month now and I'd swear that I have an entirely different engine and transmission..

It's just ridiculous how much better the performance is now, no CEL, no problems whatsoever..

I've only tried the 87 performance and 93 performance tunes, haven't used the 87 tow tune yet..

All I'm saying is that I think that unless you have access to and are able to pay for a reputable tuning shop to put your truck up on the dyno and have them write tunes that WON'T wreck your powertrain.. then I recommend Mike Troyer's tunes for these trucks. 15 years of plumbing the depths of what Ford does with the F150, what the trucks are really capable of.. why pay the same amount of $ for generic tuning that you'll spend many hours trying to adjust for your truck, asking for advice and help on the internets?

 

With more than half the Troyer tuned truck I read about, they put them on the dyno and dont have to change a thing because Mike is so good with these trucks though.

And even if its not, that is why Mike has people datalog these trucks and send the info back to him so he can make it right on. So your still on a dyno checking everything and getting it fine tuned.

Pretty damn close to a custom tune, your just not right there on the dyno so to say.

Thats my 2 cents anywho

 

Hey thanks for all the replys, and just as an FYI, im not being specific about certian shops that do tunes. Im just asking in general, for the majority of the fellas who have simple bolt on's like CAI, exhaust, etc...

When they buy a custom tune (from who ever it may be). Are they (the people who do "custom tuning") making changes to other properties of the ECU which are NOT available from the hand held? Or are simply only making changes to the parameters that are available in the hand held, based on their knowledge and expierence (and probably data logs)?

 

The custom tuning done by people like Troyer, VMP, and myself are done with parameters well outside of the adjustments you have available on most programming devices. Depending on the situation, the tuning can be done from experience or from datalogged information, but in extreme cases it may actually be done on a dyno.

Hope this helps.

Bill

 

Nope. I've had "canned" as well as a few custom tunes and they are most definitely not the same. I've also dyno tuned. You get what you pay for and do your homework on. I wonder why anyone would not get a custom tune considering the minimal price difference but that's b/c I spent a lot of money to learn the hard way I guess. In those bunch of questions Troyer asks for instance is a huge opportunity for you to ask him to tailor your tunes to your truck and how and where you use it. Also the experience of a tuner makes a huge difference. Interestingly, I also had Troyer dyno my truck after a few weeks of running the emailed tunes and was surprised to see just how close he had nailed the tunes in the first place. There wasn't a whole lot left on the table but you should have seen the spreadsheets he went through to find small tweaks here and there. The fact that Troyer dyno'd and tweaked the emailed tunes they sent did not suddenly make them custom. Nor did they hugely improve them. Define them however you want but custom tunes blow away canned tunes (check power UNDER the curve where you use it 99% of the time) and for not much more money. I believe unless you either drive the truck or see comparible dyno's (same dyno same truck same day bracketed etc) and look at the difference in power a custom tune can get below the peak hp/tq numbers the usual sales pitch of max numbers can fool people. Who would spend an extra buck or two for custom when it only makes 5hp more max? What they don't show is the 20 rwhp difference through the entire mid range not to mention the torque. My truck is flat out faster with custom tunes BUT that's not the real story, the BIG difference is that the partial throttle low and midrange power is in another league now. When I turn a corner now and give it just 1/4 thottle or so it goes, right now, strong and smooth even in my heavy pig. With the original SCT stuff, this same corner with even moderate acceleration would take too much throttle input resulting in a ridiculous downshift and a big circus act take off (better than stock but still). Now it easily keeps up with traffic and passes with confidence and little effort. Towing is also greatly improved as this is where midrange is THE story unless you like full throttle towing or slugging along. I'm not embarrassed to hear my exhaust when towing anymore put it that way. Based on what I've experienced canned tunes are 80% of the price for maybe 50% of the performance and satisfaction of custom.

 

x2- sometimes you get what ya pay for- you are paying for mike troyers knowledge and experience-we put my van on the dyno and he didn't have to make any changes mostly beecause he knows what does and doesn't work- to make a comment " tuned on a dyno = custom tuning " is assinine

 

Got to add that Mike specializes in mostly ford trucks. He is an active memeber up to recently when he has been workin on trucks and tuning. He has always been very informative and is glad to talk to you if you ever need help.

Even if the product is comparable to others...wouldn't customer service be a good option to also put in with this stuff!!

Lookin into gettin a XCAL soon!!