Disappointed with lack of service
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Joined: Feb 2006
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From: Orlando
Originally Posted by NCSU_05_FX4
Very true... now whether you call a Stage 2 "significantly" modified is up for debate....
"This package includes the "Top 5" best bang for the buck mods - starting off with our famous Troyer Performance custom tuning, featuring 3 different custom-tuned performance programs for your vehicle's PCM (Powertrain Control Module) provided in a convenient & reversible hand-held flash device with full email update and high-speed data logging capabilities! Then comes a complete replacement of the air intake tract system, as well as a complete replacement T304 aircraft-grade stainless steel cat-back exhaust system. Next comes our set of underdrive pulleys, and our complete Troyer Performance Dual 16" electric fan kit, using the very best available components."
To me that seems like a fairly big change from stock and would therefore require datalogging. Hell, even with just an air intake I'd want to data log since, as TP has pointed out, new F150 can come running lean directly from the factory. So if you added a new intake, it's almost to be expected that you'd throw a lean code. Now the baseline tune will allow the truck to run, but you'd still need hard data to see what/if changes need to be made.
-NCSU
"This package includes the "Top 5" best bang for the buck mods - starting off with our famous Troyer Performance custom tuning, featuring 3 different custom-tuned performance programs for your vehicle's PCM (Powertrain Control Module) provided in a convenient & reversible hand-held flash device with full email update and high-speed data logging capabilities! Then comes a complete replacement of the air intake tract system, as well as a complete replacement T304 aircraft-grade stainless steel cat-back exhaust system. Next comes our set of underdrive pulleys, and our complete Troyer Performance Dual 16" electric fan kit, using the very best available components."
To me that seems like a fairly big change from stock and would therefore require datalogging. Hell, even with just an air intake I'd want to data log since, as TP has pointed out, new F150 can come running lean directly from the factory. So if you added a new intake, it's almost to be expected that you'd throw a lean code. Now the baseline tune will allow the truck to run, but you'd still need hard data to see what/if changes need to be made.
-NCSU
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 1
From: Northern Illinois
Originally Posted by NCSU_05_FX4
but I'll put my truck with his tunes against any other tuner any day of the week.
-NCSU
Now. That's a challenge I would love to take. Sorry. You have very good insight and make a whole lot of sense with your statements. This statement; however, comes from an entirely different standpoint. I had a Troyer Tune and it was good. It was real good under WOT. I made 248 RWHP with 35" Tires installed. If you add the 15 or 20 HP I was giving up due to the big tires. That is mid 260s RWHP or right near or slightly over 300 RWTRQ.
Now. You have seen my other posts and know what I registered in August with this truck and that included the 35" tires. 265 RWHP & 320 RWTRQ in 2nd Gear. Add another 20 for a 3rd Gear pull. So. Unless your truck with the Troyer tune is putting 290 RWHP + to the pavement, you won't get it done.
Please understand I am not knocking Troyer's tuning. You are absolutely correct. There are none better in the industry. I; however, am working with a superior fuel and am tuned specifically for only that fuel. I'd even bet Troyer could get another 5-10 HP out of my truck.
but I'll put my truck with his tunes against any other tuner any day of the week.
-NCSU
Now. That's a challenge I would love to take. Sorry. You have very good insight and make a whole lot of sense with your statements. This statement; however, comes from an entirely different standpoint. I had a Troyer Tune and it was good. It was real good under WOT. I made 248 RWHP with 35" Tires installed. If you add the 15 or 20 HP I was giving up due to the big tires. That is mid 260s RWHP or right near or slightly over 300 RWTRQ.
Now. You have seen my other posts and know what I registered in August with this truck and that included the 35" tires. 265 RWHP & 320 RWTRQ in 2nd Gear. Add another 20 for a 3rd Gear pull. So. Unless your truck with the Troyer tune is putting 290 RWHP + to the pavement, you won't get it done.
Please understand I am not knocking Troyer's tuning. You are absolutely correct. There are none better in the industry. I; however, am working with a superior fuel and am tuned specifically for only that fuel. I'd even bet Troyer could get another 5-10 HP out of my truck.
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 229
Likes: 1
From: Northern Illinois
Originally Posted by ONE04FX4
so this being said you cannot overwrite the tunes in the xcal2 from troyer correct? does the protuner software write directly to the pcm in the truck or is something such as the xcal2 still needed to write the pcm.
The tuning is done on a PC, then loaded into the XCAL II. From there, of course, it is loaded into the truck.
Originally Posted by tschaid
Now. That's a challenge I would love to take. Sorry. You have very good insight and make a whole lot of sense with your statements. This statement; however, comes from an entirely different standpoint. I had a Troyer Tune and it was good. It was real good under WOT. I made 248 RWHP with 35" Tires installed. If you add the 15 or 20 HP I was giving up due to the big tires. That is mid 260s RWHP or right near or slightly over 300 RWTRQ.
Now. You have seen my other posts and know what I registered in August with this truck and that included the 35" tires. 265 RWHP & 320 RWTRQ in 2nd Gear. Add another 20 for a 3rd Gear pull. So. Unless your truck with the Troyer tune is putting 290 RWHP + to the pavement, you won't get it done.
Please understand I am not knocking Troyer's tuning. You are absolutely correct. There are none better in the industry. I; however, am working with a superior fuel and am tuned specifically for only that fuel. I'd even bet Troyer could get another 5-10 HP out of my truck.
Now. You have seen my other posts and know what I registered in August with this truck and that included the 35" tires. 265 RWHP & 320 RWTRQ in 2nd Gear. Add another 20 for a 3rd Gear pull. So. Unless your truck with the Troyer tune is putting 290 RWHP + to the pavement, you won't get it done.
Please understand I am not knocking Troyer's tuning. You are absolutely correct. There are none better in the industry. I; however, am working with a superior fuel and am tuned specifically for only that fuel. I'd even bet Troyer could get another 5-10 HP out of my truck.
Ok, I'll grant you that, but 99.9% of F150 owners can't do what you're doing. Until you go commercial I don't think your setup can really be compared to something someone can go on-line, order, and install at home
So, I guess I should be a little more specific and say I'll put my TP tuned truck against any other commercial tune out there.
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Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 15
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From: Chicago
Ok let me ask this, How long should a customer with a bad tune that paid $1,699 wait to get corrections made? Honestly how long would you wait never hearing from them and driving with engine knock.
Hopefully this will serve as notice to some other potential buyers that its not always as clean cut and simple as some people make it sound. Maybe the stage 1 kit is a much safer way to go for people. You have to understand I had been pleased with everything up to this point and I had no problems going out and getting the dyno work and datalogging done. They have always been pleasant on the phone, but HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO WAIT? What length of time do you find reasonable?
Hopefully this will serve as notice to some other potential buyers that its not always as clean cut and simple as some people make it sound. Maybe the stage 1 kit is a much safer way to go for people. You have to understand I had been pleased with everything up to this point and I had no problems going out and getting the dyno work and datalogging done. They have always been pleasant on the phone, but HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO WAIT? What length of time do you find reasonable?
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,803
Likes: 1
From: North Canton, Ohio
Originally Posted by Crafter
Ok let me ask this, How long should a customer with a bad tune that paid $1,699 wait to get corrections made? Honestly how long would you wait never hearing from them and driving with engine knock.
Hopefully this will serve as notice to some other potential buyers that its not always as clean cut and simple as some people make it sound. Maybe the stage 1 kit is a much safer way to go for people. You have to understand I had been pleased with everything up to this point and I had no problems going out and getting the dyno work and datalogging done. They have always been pleasant on the phone, but HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO WAIT? What length of time do you find reasonable?
Hopefully this will serve as notice to some other potential buyers that its not always as clean cut and simple as some people make it sound. Maybe the stage 1 kit is a much safer way to go for people. You have to understand I had been pleased with everything up to this point and I had no problems going out and getting the dyno work and datalogging done. They have always been pleasant on the phone, but HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO WAIT? What length of time do you find reasonable?
You keep asking how long you should have to wait, but you have not posted the exact issues you are experiencing..Please give all the information you have....
Originally Posted by tschaid
Way off topic; but, I like your grill. I saw one on the road about a year and a half ago and just had to have one too.
I'm guessing you're talking to me, and thanks! In that pic I've only got part of the grill installed, had some problems getting all the right parts. With the HD lights it looks more like this now..
That was taken with my camera phone so quality isn't that great.
Crafter: When I first got my tune I datalogged and was running rich. It took me maybe a week to finally get ahold of Mr. MT himself, and from that point on I think it took maybe 72 hours before I had a revised tune in my e-mail box. I did have to send more complete data, such as the tabular data from the dyno. I've asked before and you've ignored me, how long after your install did you wait to data log and did you provide tabular data to TP? Have you called them daily to check on your status, or to talked to Mike directly about your problem? Have you told them how unhappy you are with your situation? I'm guessing you haven't.... prove me wrong. Tell us the whole story.
-NCSU
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 406
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From: Chicago Area
Originally Posted by Crafter
Ok let me ask this, How long should a customer with a bad tune that paid $1,699 wait to get corrections made? Honestly how long would you wait never hearing from them and driving with engine knock.
Hopefully this will serve as notice to some other potential buyers that its not always as clean cut and simple as some people make it sound. Maybe the stage 1 kit is a much safer way to go for people. You have to understand I had been pleased with everything up to this point and I had no problems going out and getting the dyno work and datalogging done. They have always been pleasant on the phone, but HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO WAIT? What length of time do you find reasonable?
Hopefully this will serve as notice to some other potential buyers that its not always as clean cut and simple as some people make it sound. Maybe the stage 1 kit is a much safer way to go for people. You have to understand I had been pleased with everything up to this point and I had no problems going out and getting the dyno work and datalogging done. They have always been pleasant on the phone, but HOW LONG DO YOU HAVE TO WAIT? What length of time do you find reasonable?
Life really isn't this hard!
Member
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 19
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tschaid,
Who are you refering to as far as helping you on your tuning
? I live in Rockford and would love to know of a place nearby that is reputable! Thanks BTW, sorry for the hijack!
Crafter, I will say that I would be upset as well. Good luck!
Who are you refering to as far as helping you on your tuning
? I live in Rockford and would love to know of a place nearby that is reputable! Thanks BTW, sorry for the hijack! Crafter, I will say that I would be upset as well. Good luck!
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 608
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From: Ruckersville VA
Originally Posted by tschaid
First off. You are correct on point 1. Unless a SCT Dealer is willing to supply the files utilized to create the tune, they cannot be modified. Some SCT Dealers will and some won't. But... What are you trying to say with "rewrite the entire programming in the XCal2". I really think you are trying to say "overwrite the existing tunes" with new tunes. If that was the message you were trying to send then you are correct.
When downloading a tune to an XCAL II for these vehicles, the entire program for a specific PCM code is not altered. That is why SCT needs to know the PCM code for any vehicle before doing any custom tuning. The base PCM specific program includes a number of parameters which would never be altered. Examples of this include most of the "scalar misc swtiches", most of the "scalar system_swtiches", most wouldn't fool with the "Exhaust Temp tables" without specifics and a pyrometer, just to name a few. Of course, there are more.
Recently, I was reading through a number of Kenne Bell technical articles. It is their opinion that bolt ons don't add much in the way of HP and TRQ and that air/fuel and ignition timing are all that need to be modified to make more of either. Kind of a simple approach don't you think ? Of course, Mike does an awesome job with tuning the transmissions in these trucks and in my opinion, this is what sets his work apart from the majority of other tuners int he industry.
I have seen a number of these type of complaints. Most do not understand the datalogging and dyno requirement. They are just so excited about getting the new tune. I was one of those. You may recall I loved the WOT response; but, hated the driveability. I didn't understand the datalogging requirement or really how to do it. Livelink was not performing very well. I was very angry with Mike when he told me he owed me nothing. When I started doing my own, datalogging became something I couldn't live without. I spend hours comparing logs, adjusting, sometimes just tinkering. It is absolutely impossible to tweak a tune without feedback. If you can feel something wrong in the truck, the data logs will likely show it. Once it is identified, it can be fixed.
Crafter is frustrated and having been there, I understand his frustration. All I was attempting to do was help him gather and identify what was going on. I personally think he his making a huge mistake by going to a local dyno shop and have them tune his truck. Unless the shop has specific knowledge about tuning these trucks, I do not think he will be happy with that tuning either. I work with a SCT Dealer locally who is exceptional at tuning Mustangs. He has offered me tons of advice, taught me a lot about tuning; but, does not tune F150s. I believe he could; but, apparently that isn't his niche.
When downloading a tune to an XCAL II for these vehicles, the entire program for a specific PCM code is not altered. That is why SCT needs to know the PCM code for any vehicle before doing any custom tuning. The base PCM specific program includes a number of parameters which would never be altered. Examples of this include most of the "scalar misc swtiches", most of the "scalar system_swtiches", most wouldn't fool with the "Exhaust Temp tables" without specifics and a pyrometer, just to name a few. Of course, there are more.
Recently, I was reading through a number of Kenne Bell technical articles. It is their opinion that bolt ons don't add much in the way of HP and TRQ and that air/fuel and ignition timing are all that need to be modified to make more of either. Kind of a simple approach don't you think ? Of course, Mike does an awesome job with tuning the transmissions in these trucks and in my opinion, this is what sets his work apart from the majority of other tuners int he industry.
I have seen a number of these type of complaints. Most do not understand the datalogging and dyno requirement. They are just so excited about getting the new tune. I was one of those. You may recall I loved the WOT response; but, hated the driveability. I didn't understand the datalogging requirement or really how to do it. Livelink was not performing very well. I was very angry with Mike when he told me he owed me nothing. When I started doing my own, datalogging became something I couldn't live without. I spend hours comparing logs, adjusting, sometimes just tinkering. It is absolutely impossible to tweak a tune without feedback. If you can feel something wrong in the truck, the data logs will likely show it. Once it is identified, it can be fixed.
Crafter is frustrated and having been there, I understand his frustration. All I was attempting to do was help him gather and identify what was going on. I personally think he his making a huge mistake by going to a local dyno shop and have them tune his truck. Unless the shop has specific knowledge about tuning these trucks, I do not think he will be happy with that tuning either. I work with a SCT Dealer locally who is exceptional at tuning Mustangs. He has offered me tons of advice, taught me a lot about tuning; but, does not tune F150s. I believe he could; but, apparently that isn't his niche.
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Member
Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Chicago
TSDan, You must thing your so cool for talking so tuff on the internet. Nice response. By the way I have called them 6 times over the past 2 1/2 months and sent them emails. And no they have no sent it to my email. My point is their service regarding making changes to my tunes is poor. Every time I call their office they cant give any good answer as to when the tunes will be corrected.
All information was sent to Troyer on Oct. 6, 2006. The dyno work was done on a Dynojet and I have both tabular and graph format. I sent them 1 no load run and 2 load runs. A/F up to 3000 rpm is in the 14s and 13s. As stated earlier I have engine knock between 2-3000 RMPs. I talked to Mike at the beginning of December and that has gotten me nothing. IF I DIDNT GIVE HIM SOMETHING HE NEEDED HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED! I dont know what else to tell ya. My point is I shouldnt have to call them every day just to get service. If I ran my business this way, we would be out of business.
All information was sent to Troyer on Oct. 6, 2006. The dyno work was done on a Dynojet and I have both tabular and graph format. I sent them 1 no load run and 2 load runs. A/F up to 3000 rpm is in the 14s and 13s. As stated earlier I have engine knock between 2-3000 RMPs. I talked to Mike at the beginning of December and that has gotten me nothing. IF I DIDNT GIVE HIM SOMETHING HE NEEDED HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED! I dont know what else to tell ya. My point is I shouldnt have to call them every day just to get service. If I ran my business this way, we would be out of business.
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
From: Centennial, CO
This forum is unbelievable!! If you even begin to suggest any problems with Troyer (aka GOD) everyone on this site bashes you. As I mentioned earlier I had some question about the product, and was immediately hammered. And Crafter gets rocked even more!
My issue was different, and as stated earlier in this thread, data logging was supposed to be needed only if you had SIGNIFICANT modifications, which I do not.
Can you guys even fathom that Troyer has NOT treated Crafter right, instead of bashing him??
My issue was different, and as stated earlier in this thread, data logging was supposed to be needed only if you had SIGNIFICANT modifications, which I do not.
Can you guys even fathom that Troyer has NOT treated Crafter right, instead of bashing him??
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
From: Chicago Area
Originally Posted by DRHRSH
This forum is unbelievable!! If you even begin to suggest any problems with Troyer (aka GOD) everyone on this site bashes you. As I mentioned earlier I had some question about the product, and was immediately hammered. And Crafter gets rocked even more!
My issue was different, and as stated earlier in this thread, data logging was supposed to be needed only if you had SIGNIFICANT modifications, which I do not.
Can you guys even fathom that Troyer has NOT treated Crafter right, instead of bashing him??
My issue was different, and as stated earlier in this thread, data logging was supposed to be needed only if you had SIGNIFICANT modifications, which I do not.
Can you guys even fathom that Troyer has NOT treated Crafter right, instead of bashing him??
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,557
Likes: 1
From: Chesterfield,Va.
Originally Posted by TSDan
To be honest with you,you picked a couple of weeks of holiday time to post this, you don't answer any guestion asked of you with a firm and decisive answer, and you waited 2 months to call back instead of calling everyday till you got your grievence settled.I bet you were already sent a tune replacement in the e-mail but since you don't read anything you didn't know that is how things are done and deleted the fix 7 weeks ago.Now your crying to everyone like a yelling bratt in a hissy fit looking for attention.You need to lose the attitude and call Mike in the morning.I for 1 am sick of reading your uncooperative *** statements.Wipe the snot from your nose and pick up the phone Jan.2,2007 and get it right this time. Life really isn't this hard!
Life really isn't this hard!
Originally Posted by Crafter
TSDan, You must thing your so cool for talking so tuff on the internet. Nice response. By the way I have called them 6 times over the past 2 1/2 months and sent them emails. And no they have no sent it to my email. My point is their service regarding making changes to my tunes is poor. Every time I call their office they cant give any good answer as to when the tunes will be corrected.
All information was sent to Troyer on Oct. 6, 2006. The dyno work was done on a Dynojet and I have both tabular and graph format. I sent them 1 no load run and 2 load runs. A/F up to 3000 rpm is in the 14s and 13s. As stated earlier I have engine knock between 2-3000 RMPs. I talked to Mike at the beginning of December and that has gotten me nothing. IF I DIDNT GIVE HIM SOMETHING HE NEEDED HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED! I dont know what else to tell ya. My point is I shouldnt have to call them every day just to get service. If I ran my business this way, we would be out of business.
All information was sent to Troyer on Oct. 6, 2006. The dyno work was done on a Dynojet and I have both tabular and graph format. I sent them 1 no load run and 2 load runs. A/F up to 3000 rpm is in the 14s and 13s. As stated earlier I have engine knock between 2-3000 RMPs. I talked to Mike at the beginning of December and that has gotten me nothing. IF I DIDNT GIVE HIM SOMETHING HE NEEDED HE SHOULD HAVE CALLED! I dont know what else to tell ya. My point is I shouldnt have to call them every day just to get service. If I ran my business this way, we would be out of business.
The only response I get is that they will get to it when they "get a chance".
Originally Posted by DRHRSH
This forum is unbelievable!! If you even begin to suggest any problems with Troyer (aka GOD) everyone on this site bashes you. As I mentioned earlier I had some question about the product, and was immediately hammered. And Crafter gets rocked even more!
My issue was different, and as stated earlier in this thread, data logging was supposed to be needed only if you had SIGNIFICANT modifications, which I do not.
Can you guys even fathom that Troyer has NOT treated Crafter right, instead of bashing him??
My issue was different, and as stated earlier in this thread, data logging was supposed to be needed only if you had SIGNIFICANT modifications, which I do not.
Can you guys even fathom that Troyer has NOT treated Crafter right, instead of bashing him??
Marc has asked for info and looks like none was offered....
also, if you done haft the research you say you done, how could you miss it...
Custom is Custom.... You don't have to Dyno, but to be sure, you must...
the "needed only if you had SIGNIFICANT modifications" was implyed to the 2003 and back.... I read this a long time ago in some post also, but as I have a 2005 F150 as do you... I disreguarded it... as you should have in you research......