xcal 2 or longtubes?
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Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Murray , Kentucky
You'd do better with the tuner. A tuner is a must have if you plan on doing any modding. You can correct for tires/gears and fix the slushbox shifting (transmission).
I'd get the tuner. The tubes will just leave you wanting more. (Tuner will too)
I'd get the tuner. The tubes will just leave you wanting more. (Tuner will too)
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From: Cape Cod, Ma
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well i dont really have enough money for the dynatech long tubes so i was thinking about the pacesetter ceramic coated long tubes. Im in cali so the tunes couldnt use the 93 like the guys from the east coast so i would get less power out of the tuner.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Murray , Kentucky
If you get the pace setter tubes, you'll have to buy high flow cats too. those are like $65 each + the tubes... + having muffler shop fab up the intermediate pipe to fit your existing exhaust...
L/T = $450
Hi-Flo-Cat= $130+
MUffler shop= $75
= $655.. that's if you install them yourself.
With the stock tune, your engine will top out at 100MPH and the rev limiter is set at like 5000RPM.. WEAK!
Plus the tranny shifts at stupid points and it slides into gear like an old lady's car.
Give Troyer Performance a call and have em send you an XCAL2 loaded with 91 cotane performance tunes.. I ASSURE you that you'll be happier that way.
L/T = $450
Hi-Flo-Cat= $130+
MUffler shop= $75
= $655.. that's if you install them yourself.
With the stock tune, your engine will top out at 100MPH and the rev limiter is set at like 5000RPM.. WEAK!
Plus the tranny shifts at stupid points and it slides into gear like an old lady's car.
Give Troyer Performance a call and have em send you an XCAL2 loaded with 91 cotane performance tunes.. I ASSURE you that you'll be happier that way.
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Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Cape Cod, Ma
The Pacesetters are a great price at 400. So at that price you can get both tuner and the headers and the cost would still be less that the dynatech's. you can get magnaflow cats part# 94139
at www.performancepeddler.com for $53 with use of the coupon code Fordf150.net
at www.performancepeddler.com for $53 with use of the coupon code Fordf150.net
Last edited by FX4 Matt; Dec 19, 2006 at 05:01 PM.
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Joined: Mar 1998
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From: Virginia
HI Blackbeast02,
Actually, what will get you the most *performance* gain by far is our custom tuning. Additionally, if you are going to go with headers, I recommend saving your money and using a *quality* set of headers. Pacesetter are not what we consider good quality, that is why they are so cheap. Anyone going with longtubes for these trucks really should go with Dynatech, it's a much better quality header that lasts considerably longer and gets better results, easier to install, etc. The bottom line is, there is no way you will ever get the amount of actual performance improvement from any headers that you will from our custom tuning.
Anyone experienced in properly modifying EFI vehicles knows that until the A/F ratios are dialed in properly & any adjustments necessary for a given vehicle's modifications are made, you cannot make a viable or accurate judgment. This is very basic, and is precisely why we want people to datalog - so that we can make those adjustments so that each vehicle gets it's best possible performance. For example, one poster in this thread (a nice guy with a beautiful truck) complained in a different thread that our tuning only provided 10 Hp to his vehicle - but the real problem was that his truck was running very lean due to all of the various modifications, and most likely a somewhat dirty set of MAF wires, too, as that always happens even with stock paper air filters over time, they need to be cleaned yearly. And the reality is that truck immediately picked up considerably more power once he richened up the A/F's with our hand-held tuner - and will gain even more power once the A/F's are properly dialed in with his finalized tunes as will be required to compensate for all of the various modifications done to that particular vehicle.
Our tunes for the typical 5.4 truck, just for example, will gain every bit as much raw power as a set of longtube headers will as long as the A/F ratios are properly dialed in - Additionally, remember that what matters is how the vehicle actually performs as a result of each modification, and doing properly controlled timed acceleration testing as we describe in the docs we provide with every tune we do. In *tuning*, we improve so many other areas in addition to adding considerable raw power that the truck lowers it's accelerations times FAR more than it will with the same raw power gain from any other type of modification.
We have routinely done drag strip & towing examples where we take a truck and REDUCE it's power by 20 HP - but still make it run significant quicker and pull harder & stronger. So the reality is, our tuning gets you not only plenty of raw power, but also improves many other aspects of performance that no other modification can.
In other words, if you had your truck set up with our custom tuning, and were able to either do a drag strip run or a towing comparison against your own truck with the stock tuning but with the longtubes, your truck with our tuning would run significantly quicker & better than your truck with the longtube headers. So it's important, if you want to be accurate and actually know what really does what correctly, to think in terms of actual performance, and not just raw dyno numbers (though dyno numbers are always nice, provided they are accurate and based on finalized tunes).
The bottom line is very simple - *proper* tuning addresses so many issues that no other modification can, and is just one of many reasons why proper tuning delivers more performance gain for the same or less cost than any other performance modification. There simply is no better bang for the buck performance enhancement than our custom tuning - if there were, that would be fine with us, as we would simply tell our customers to go with one of our other modifications instead, as we do ALL types of modifications for performance in these vehicles, so it doesn't matter to us, what we care about is what gives the best results, and the basic order of bang for the buck!
Just to fill you in a bit, the basic order of bang for the buck is:
Proper custom tuning.
A good quality intake kit.
A properly designed exhaust setup.
Underdrive pulleys.
Electric Fans.
Then, longtube headers.
Of course, there are many other mods possible after that, from ported heads & cams to superchargers, nitrous, to you name it - but that is just a quick short list to get you familiar with the first handful of mods to do what what order to do them in if you want to maximize your bang for the buck, which is what almost everyone is looking for, of course,.
If you'd like to go over any of this in more detail, please feel free to give us a cal at our number listed below & we'll be happy to answer any questions you have, let you know what is going to give you the most benefit at any stage of modification, etc., as that is what we specialize in.
I hope this info helps, & best of luck with your truck!
Actually, what will get you the most *performance* gain by far is our custom tuning. Additionally, if you are going to go with headers, I recommend saving your money and using a *quality* set of headers. Pacesetter are not what we consider good quality, that is why they are so cheap. Anyone going with longtubes for these trucks really should go with Dynatech, it's a much better quality header that lasts considerably longer and gets better results, easier to install, etc. The bottom line is, there is no way you will ever get the amount of actual performance improvement from any headers that you will from our custom tuning.
Anyone experienced in properly modifying EFI vehicles knows that until the A/F ratios are dialed in properly & any adjustments necessary for a given vehicle's modifications are made, you cannot make a viable or accurate judgment. This is very basic, and is precisely why we want people to datalog - so that we can make those adjustments so that each vehicle gets it's best possible performance. For example, one poster in this thread (a nice guy with a beautiful truck) complained in a different thread that our tuning only provided 10 Hp to his vehicle - but the real problem was that his truck was running very lean due to all of the various modifications, and most likely a somewhat dirty set of MAF wires, too, as that always happens even with stock paper air filters over time, they need to be cleaned yearly. And the reality is that truck immediately picked up considerably more power once he richened up the A/F's with our hand-held tuner - and will gain even more power once the A/F's are properly dialed in with his finalized tunes as will be required to compensate for all of the various modifications done to that particular vehicle.
Our tunes for the typical 5.4 truck, just for example, will gain every bit as much raw power as a set of longtube headers will as long as the A/F ratios are properly dialed in - Additionally, remember that what matters is how the vehicle actually performs as a result of each modification, and doing properly controlled timed acceleration testing as we describe in the docs we provide with every tune we do. In *tuning*, we improve so many other areas in addition to adding considerable raw power that the truck lowers it's accelerations times FAR more than it will with the same raw power gain from any other type of modification.
We have routinely done drag strip & towing examples where we take a truck and REDUCE it's power by 20 HP - but still make it run significant quicker and pull harder & stronger. So the reality is, our tuning gets you not only plenty of raw power, but also improves many other aspects of performance that no other modification can.
In other words, if you had your truck set up with our custom tuning, and were able to either do a drag strip run or a towing comparison against your own truck with the stock tuning but with the longtubes, your truck with our tuning would run significantly quicker & better than your truck with the longtube headers. So it's important, if you want to be accurate and actually know what really does what correctly, to think in terms of actual performance, and not just raw dyno numbers (though dyno numbers are always nice, provided they are accurate and based on finalized tunes).
The bottom line is very simple - *proper* tuning addresses so many issues that no other modification can, and is just one of many reasons why proper tuning delivers more performance gain for the same or less cost than any other performance modification. There simply is no better bang for the buck performance enhancement than our custom tuning - if there were, that would be fine with us, as we would simply tell our customers to go with one of our other modifications instead, as we do ALL types of modifications for performance in these vehicles, so it doesn't matter to us, what we care about is what gives the best results, and the basic order of bang for the buck!
Just to fill you in a bit, the basic order of bang for the buck is:
Proper custom tuning.
A good quality intake kit.
A properly designed exhaust setup.
Underdrive pulleys.
Electric Fans.
Then, longtube headers.
Of course, there are many other mods possible after that, from ported heads & cams to superchargers, nitrous, to you name it - but that is just a quick short list to get you familiar with the first handful of mods to do what what order to do them in if you want to maximize your bang for the buck, which is what almost everyone is looking for, of course,.
If you'd like to go over any of this in more detail, please feel free to give us a cal at our number listed below & we'll be happy to answer any questions you have, let you know what is going to give you the most benefit at any stage of modification, etc., as that is what we specialize in.
I hope this info helps, & best of luck with your truck!