Well I am now at 10,000 miles after converting to E85 and still counting. The truck is running fine. Below is a cost analysis.

Miles MPG Gallons Ave Cost / Gallon Ext Cost
E85 10,000 11.5 869.57 $2.43 $2,113.04
93 Oct 10,000 12.0 833.33 $3.15 $2,625.00

Savings $511.96

So, if we assume it will cost $1,000 dollars to replace my fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel lines, and fuel injectors, I need to drive another 10,000 miles without any issues using the calcs above. Of course, that is if we assume I will have trouble.

I will tell you I was incorrect with my research earlier. The 2006 F150s do look to have slightly larger injectors (at least from the programming stand point) and larger fuel lines (the filter neck on some has a larger input). Some have said they have a sensor to determine which type of fuel is coming from the tank. Doesn't seem to matter with my truck though.

I know I know. Troyer will greet this post with a slam at my credibility. That's fine. You saw the dyno charts from earlier and the mileage continues to grow. Next up actual production of E85. Delays continue; but, production will occur.

 

I suggest you remove that crap. It adds nothing to the conversation and continues to confirm what everyone thinks about you.
At least you have admitted where you were wrong but then you stuck your foot in your mouth.

I am interested in your E85 results but not your petty bickering about what Mike thinks about you. Move on.

 

Interesting, to say the least.
Good to see that you admit an error.
Why worry about Troyer? Deal with your truck and tell us how it's going. He's human as well as you. Taking digs like that only increases the animosity.
Your experimenting is interesting enough without the added dose of vinegar.
Just my $0.02

 

Not sure how gas prices are in your area but how does your cost analysis compare out when 93 octane is about 2.50 a gallon?

 

I am new to F150online but not new to forums and one of the major no no's is flaming someone or calling them out with witty retorts.

That being said, I have seen your posts and while I don't have an E85 truck it's interesting.

You should check out Consumer Reports. They just published their findings on E85. Oct Edition, Page 15 titled "The ethanol myth" The title speaks for itself.

No more flaming please.

RollingRock

 

Isn't this the same Consumer Reports that prefers Japanese vehicles to Domestics vehicles and always rates them higher ?

It is always really cool to see how the "experts" talk about this. Does it make sense that a vehicle can be programmed to run a variety of fuels and therefore is not programmed optimally for any vs. a vehicle that is programmed to utilize a single fuel and therefore gets better economy and performance by comparison ?

Also, has anyone stopped to consider that E85 pricing is directly tied to gasoline pricing in many areas ? As such as the price of gasoline fluctuates so does the price of E85 ?

Consumer Reports did get one thing right. Better emissions.

Lastly from a cost comparison standpoint. How does 93 Octane fuel (currently priced at $3.09 in Illinois) compare to E85 at $1.00 or $1.25 ?

I only showed the cost comparisons because a number on this board and in automotive circles around the country have insisted I am in the process of destroying my fuel delivery system. The savings are real and if the experts are correct will be eaten up by repair costs if damage occurs within the next 10,000 miles.

As to the flaming. Troyer uses this board as well as Ford-Trucks.com to sell his products and services. Instead of researching the facts and using his formidable experience in illustrating where I may experience issues, he chose to spend the same amount of time digging out tidbits from year old posts to slam me. If anyone would take the time to dig, you would see that I began this by singing his praises and only challenging his statements. I was unhappy with his tuning because the driveability was terrible. I was also unhappy with Troyer because he told me point blank he owed me nothing in regard to his Hi-Perf tune. His service left a lot to be desired after the sale. Many others state they have received fantastic service from him. I dunno. It is probably just me. A lot has occurred since then. Yes. I created a second account on this board purely with the inent to get to the facts. I underestimated the desire for both Troyer and the moderators to avoid being pinpointed. Now, the facts are gradually coming out. The opinions are still flying; but, it has become obvious these trucks can and will handle E85 without issue. At least for 10000 miles despite the differences in fuel system components. Differences I could not put my hands on early on.

My work continues. I will be producing E85 as soon as I satisfy the government's requirements. I will also convert my family's ford vehicles to burn E85 efficiently. Of course, this is contrary to the experts and is contrary to the factory design; but, the results are unmistakeable. I will not; however, offer this service to those outside my family as I do not have the experience and don't want to get into the hassle. Still, converting to run on E85 is a viable option if the desire is accompanied by a desire to become energy indepedent. If the intent is to continue to be dependent on big business, then stay where you are. It won't save you much money because big oil won't allow it unless you are interested in going the route I went, buiying your own software, and converting your truck to run only on E85. Then, it will pay for itself in a reasonably short period of time.

Lastly, Norm. I do not really care what everyone thinks about me. I am only posting to this board to illustrate what is possible. If others do not like me, then so be it. I have spent a lifetime helping others and will continue to do so. Sometimes my words are harsh and the results are animosity as you say. It is not intended; but, I am not politically correct and never will be.

 

The point is there are people here that are interested in your results but you keep shooting yourself in the foot by your schoolboy callouts and whining. Just give us your results and keep Mike out of it. Simple solution. I have no use for political correctness either but acting like a 7th grader in the school yard is different and accomplishes nothing.

 

Results are interesting and I agree the he said/he said crap is a waste.

BTW...e85 only exists and is barely cost comparable to oil because taxpayers are subsidizing it.

If it weren't for the hidden cost reductions e85 wouldn't stand a chance...at least right now.

 

It's not even available in Arkansas.

 

I agree. Most here like to read the good input, but dislike the flame throwing, intended or not.

Just remember tschaid, keep your alter-ego's in check and we can all get along.

 

Interesting thought. Well said.

My question: What if the fuel lines, etc. are "eaten" by the E85? Wouldn't that mean there was foreign matter entering into your engine? If so, can you factor that into the equation considering that foreign matter would have some effect on the engine, too?

Sigh.....where to begin?
Simply put.....TSCHAID, please state the facts. We WANT to read the facts about your experience with E85.
Who cares about your debate with MT? I don't. The rest of don't seem to care either. It simply does nothing to further your cause, and it is not helping anyone. In fact, it hinders your cause due to people being turned off by the vitriolic content of your posts.
One cannot be marvel that you can admit your duplicity (when you signed up under another name just to beat the same old MT drum), yet not admit it was foolish and harmful.
We simply want you to use good manners, be kind and respectable/respectful to others, and contribute as we all attempt to do. Yes, we'll all fail from time to time, but to consistently flame MT (or anyone else) is too much.
Why waste your time and ours on the flames, when we all have better things to do?

 

Wow someone dropped "vitriolic"...

Impressive...most impressive.

 

He-He-he!!!!!

 

Could be. Time will tell. My belief is that nothing is going to be eaten away. That is where this whole thing started. Everything with substance I have read tells me Ethyl Alcohol (Ethanol) is not corrosive. Methyl Alcohol (Methanol) is highly corrosive.

Do you believe this is true ? Let's look at it for a moment.

The receipe I am using for my prototype shows the following:

50 Gallon Batch of Water, Yeast, Ground Corn.

160 lbs of Corn using a cost of $2.25 per bushel (56 lbs per bushel) = $6.43
.20 lbs of Yeast (Dosage is 2 to 4 lbs per 1000 gallons) $6.13 per lb = $1.23
At a 16% yield (reasonable number) batch will prod 8 gallons. So the cost per gallon is $.96. If you use electricity, add $.09 to each gallon. I will be using a corn fired boiler electricity is not in my equation. This batch is E100 at 110 Octane. To achieve E85, we need to mix 87 Octane Fuel in. 87 Octane Fuel in the midwest is E10. So our mixture is. 1.6 gallons of gasoline to 8 gallons of E100 resulting in 9.6 gallons of E85. I am using $3.00 as the cost of 87 octane gasoline. So my gross cost for 9.6 gallons of E85 is now $1.30. Subtract from that the sales of 160 lbs of distillers grain (byproduct) at .01 per pound and divide by the resulting production of 9.6 gallons and my cost per gallon is now at: $1.13. Yes. We have some labor; but, it is relatively small. An Ethanol Plant producing 100 Million Gallons a year employs fewer than 30 people; but, my small production is estimated at consuming no more than 1 hour per day. 2 hours on the top side.

Now. Clearly variables exist. Corn is now at $2.14 per bushel and is expected to drop following the harvest. 87 Octane Gasoline is at $2.79 per gallon around here. The cost of the yeast could be 1/2 if my water has a PH capable of sustaining the yeast activity. Many Ethanol plants mfgr their own yeast so this is not in their equation. During the summer months, I will produce E90 instead of E85 for use in my truck. During the Winter, this will likely be E75 raising my costs. I have also read Ethanol plants are getting higher yields into the 18% range reducing costs. I could easily change these calcs slightly and show a gross cost per gallon of $.98 per gallon before net tax credits.

Regardless. My whole basis for this has been we will never see $1.00 a gallon at the pump nor do I believe we will ever see $2.00 per gallon. The profits are too easy to come by for Big Oil. We are currently seeing a drop in the price at the pump. Provided Big Oil has no excuses for raising the price, some analysts have suggested it will continue to head down into the $2.50 range. Paying off the investment I am making in the building and the equipment won't take long and the rest will be gravey. Approximately 15 months.

So to those who suggest Ethanol plants are only profitable because of the tax credits. Hogwash. The tax credits are being used only as a political football. I; however, can take advantage of them only on any fuel sold which is highly unlikely. They do not apply to fuel produced for personal consumption. Yes, the gross credit is $.51 per gallon on production; but, this occurs only after the $.18 gallon excise tax is paid. This is then following by taxing on the credit as income for the corporation. My est calcs show the net credit will be around $.25 per gallon.

As to the flaming and the call outs. Points well taken.

 

Look for the true cost of growing that corn and the producing it.

I've posted a ton of links in another post somewhere.

e85 may work fine for a single person making enough fuel for their family but large scale production is expensive.

I'll try to dig up the posts.

I'm not against e85 I just wish it wasn't being pushed like it is the savior from foreign oil...it isn't. Anyone who believes that once it becomes commercially viable that it won't go straight to the world market is kidding themselves.

Ask yourself (generic you) this question why do we see no imports of south American ethanol? Because of the import tariffs and restrictions. Why? Because it is cheap and the American farming industry cant compete with sugar based ethanol.

Good luck with the project.