Ford Engineers take on E85 (FFV's)
Originally Posted by tschaid
Can an engineer implement components to withstand 10% Ethyl Alcohol; but, not 85% ? Maybe.
What I'm getting at here is that the engineers at Ford must design their fuel systems to be able to handle additives, of whatever kind, and when we're talking about E10, the ethenol is just an additive. There must be some factor of safety built into these trucks so you don't destroy your engine whenever you get a tank of bad gas, or add fuel 'cleaners' to your tank, hell some people add acetone to their tanks... not to mention each brand of gasoline uses their own concoction of additives.
That being said, if you start increasing the amount of additives in your tank, you may very well exceed the factor of safety the engineers designed for.
Also, have you considered that though the part numbers are the same, the manufacturing process for the parts may be different? It could be that at this point, all the components going into the new trucks are in fact E85 compatible regardless of the final intent, so there was no need to change the part numbers. This saves Ford some $$$ as they do not have to make two sets of the same part, and there is no additional cost or confusion during assembly. Perhaps, as you say, the only thing different with the new gas vs. FFV trucks is the tuning. However, that would NOT mean that older vehicles are safe to use E85 with their older components, even though the part numbers are the same.
Also, JMC made a good point.... If all the hardware really is the same and its just a computer issue, Ford is missing out on a huge PR opportunity. In 2006 Ford plans to produce 250,000 FFV vehicels, the F150 included. Imagine if Ford could say "If you own xxx F150, come into our dealership and in 20 minutes you can drive away with a FFV for free!" The fact that they haven't makes me think there's a reason.
Just an engineer's $0.02.
Last edited by NCSU_05_FX4; Jul 20, 2006 at 04:46 PM.
I have a friend that drives a 9 second Camaro 6 speed. There is a part in his tranny that meets the spec for a higher class of race vehicle but it is not certified. It is a one off custom built system. He knows that it will meet the higher spec but never bothered to have it certified because he is not in a class that requires it. So when Ford purchased the injectors for the 04 model year they may have told the supplier that in 06 the injectors will have to meet the FF spec. The supplier not wanting to design a separate injector for 2006 MY went ahead and built one to the 06 spec but simply didn't certify it. The same could hold true for all the other fuel delivery parts. Based on this Ford would be foolish to advertize that their 04-5s were FF ready. Now as far as the tuning part of your project goes.... I believe that you are in the wrong forum to discuss the tweeks and tips that you used to readjust the timing and fuel delivery required for E85 usage. Most tuners that are in the business for money do not share this info. As I stated before I wouldn't either. Mike delivers a complete package. You call him up and tell him what you want to accomplish and he ships the parts that you need. You simply bolt them on or plug them in and go. Think of him as a baker. You don’t go to a baker to buy a pound of flour.
JMC
JMC
Some awsome points being made here. But I like NCSU 05 FX4's statement best. If you buy a chain that's rated for 500lbs strength, the thing will hold probably 2,000lbs before it breaks. That's fine. But if you buy some gloves that are resistant to chemical X in a 10% solution, you better make it resistant to it in a 100% solution or you're gonna get your A$$ sued off, when somebody accidentally puts a 11% blend on them! Now for safety, testing, and warranty's sake, you might not want to advertise that it will handle a 100% solution.......
I think that the same goes for the trucks. It will handle ethanol in certian percentages. Why not 100%? Answer is.... It may be worse for the truck, but so is adding a supercharger, or nitrous, and people do that every day. I mean C'MON GUYS!! Look at this:

When this guy was building his truck, were ya'll busting his ***** saying "OOH that might not be good for your truck..." and "You might wear out the fuel system if you do that" or " that might void your warranty" or " I wouldn't do that! It might break it!!"
HELL NO!!!! Cause all of you KNOW that there's risks involved, and you all wish you had it!
I think that the same goes for the trucks. It will handle ethanol in certian percentages. Why not 100%? Answer is.... It may be worse for the truck, but so is adding a supercharger, or nitrous, and people do that every day. I mean C'MON GUYS!! Look at this:

When this guy was building his truck, were ya'll busting his ***** saying "OOH that might not be good for your truck..." and "You might wear out the fuel system if you do that" or " that might void your warranty" or " I wouldn't do that! It might break it!!"
HELL NO!!!! Cause all of you KNOW that there's risks involved, and you all wish you had it!
Instead of adding another post, I thought I would just add an update to this post. My mileage is now over 16,000 since switching my truck to run on E85 with overall mileage now approaching 105,000. I tinker with the tune every so often with the Pro Racer Software from SCT only to see if I can eek out a few more tenths of a mile per gallon. Even though it has gotten colder here, I am still running 85% Alcohol - 15% Gasoline. For a cold start test, I left my truck outside overnight a couple of nights when the temp dipped down around 25. I was interested in how well it would start. Each morning, I would turn the key on and let the system pressurize, then start it. It ran briefly then died. On the second try it started and ran perfectly.
Power and performance is still very good. The only issue I continue to have is at the top of second gear and over 100% calculated load, I run out of fuel. The data shows the fuel pump at max. One of these days, I will put a higher flowing pump in it.
Power and performance is still very good. The only issue I continue to have is at the top of second gear and over 100% calculated load, I run out of fuel. The data shows the fuel pump at max. One of these days, I will put a higher flowing pump in it.





