Over the course of the past 6 months, I have spent enormous time researching the differences between the 2004 and up F150s vs the newly released 2006 F150 FFV. Now. Mike Troyer continues to put up posts about how the entire fuel delivery system needs to be completely changed out to handle the "caustic" properties of alcohol. He even told me on the phone to stop using 30% ethanol in my tank. He told me my engine was likely running very lean and as a result hot. He told me I would likely have to go to 42 lb injectors. Instead, I jumped all the way to E85 when I had my initial tune available and I had the EGT installed. I am now 6000 miles down the road, still running E85, my engine is running somewhere between 100 and 200 degrees cooler and seemingly better than ever. I could be absolutely wrong and have my engine go south in the near future. Time will tell. My research says otherwise. So...

Following is the challenge to Mike Troyer. Load up PCM code RYB2 and compare it against any PCM code for a 2004, 2005, or 2006 F150 Gas tuned vehicle. Your SCT Advantage Software allows you to compare two tunes and produce a text file for review. Why not just go ahead and use AGB3 for a 2004 F150.

Also, contact your local Ford Dealer and get a part number printout for the 22.5 lb injectors in the 2004 F150 and the 2006 F150 FFV. Do the same for the fuel filter, the fuel pump, the fuel lines, upstream O2 Sensors, and the regulator. Then post the results on this board for everyone to see.

Lastly, from the file comparison done earlier in the challenge, post the following data to this board comparing a 2004 F150 AGB3 to a 2006 F150 FFV RYB2: This by the way is a code from one of the earliest 2004 F150 (mine is amount the first 2000 made with the new design) compared to the most current 2006 F150 FFV.

Scalar Fuel Stoichiometric Value.
Fuel Pump Voltage.
Scalar Fuel Injector High Slope, Low Slope, BreakPoint, and Minimum Pulse Widths. Then go to the multipliers.
Fuel Open Loop TP
Scalar Threshold to set adaptive limit code too lean
Scalar Threshold to set adaptive limit code too rich

There are a number of other changes Ford made to the stock tune; but, these will answer a lot of questions and put to rest a lot of popular misconceptions about these trucks and their capabilities.

When this is done, take the Ethanol Challenge. Run your gas tank down to a couple of gallons. Then add 10 gallons of E85 Ethanol. Who wants to bet on the absence of a CEL ? Don't worry, you can always fill the rest of the tank with gasoline. Don't put the engine under heavy load until you have added pressure across the injectors and increased the fuel pump voltage. Until this tuning change is made, it will lean out; but, still won't throw a CEL.

 

I assume you have already attempted to do so ? No flame intended, just very curious..What kind of power are you making compared to gasoline??
I spent many years tuning and racing Alcohol fueled Funny Cars, and from those years of experience, I can assure you that methanol is very caustic and will eat away any plastic or rubber components over a sustained period of time..just my $.02...

 

What's the difference between methanol and ethanol?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol

From an energy content, the difference is huge. This is also a confusion many have.

 

Marc,

I would never attempt to use "Methanol" for this purpose nor has any automobile mfgr engineered their vehicles to stand up to methanol. While I am not expert at the chemical properties of the two very different types of Alcohol, it is important we stick with the comparisons between F150s advertised as FFV and those that pre-date the official release. I am speaking purely about E85 "Ethanol" which should also not be confused with the "Gasohol" of the 70s.

Everybody. Please stay the course. It is easy to pick out pieces of what I said and offer opinions. This challenge is to find the facts and show them to everyone.

 

what programmer will work the best on my 2006 ford F150 supercab XLT with the 5.4 FFV? I just don't witch one to go with. <superchips-edge evolution> Is it worth it ? will it help with gas? And proformace?And will it hurt my truck in the long run? someone please help!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I talked with Rob at Edge about tuning for E85 and he said he wasn't ready. Despite the fact I don't agree with some of the things Troyer has posted about running Ethanol in these trucks, he is still the best tuner in the business. Heck, I'd even send him my E85 tune if he asked for it. No, it won't hurt your truck. In fact, you will be amazed at how good your truck with feel with Troyer Hi-Perf Tune. Your FFV tune already includes a boost to fuel pump voltage so pressure drop across injectors will need to be modified and likely the fuel injector pulse widths. The 2006 F150 FFV factory tune I saw dumped way too much fuel via the fuel injectory high and low slopes and minimum pulse widths. If yours is a 4 x 4, I doubt you over 13.5 MPG City with that truck on Gas. This can be improved somewhat.

 

Why dont you replace your factory pcm with a 2006 FFV PCM? Then tune from that baseline? Let Ford do all the R&D!!! BTW, I think you are a madman for diving into this!
You're gonna be producing so much hooch, elliot ness will come lookin for you

 

I wonder if we haven't gone about this the wrong way. We were thinking about the "fuel delivery components" ability to withstand E85 but...... Maybe the FFV's have different internal components that protect the metallic parts of the engine from formic acid in the event of a water contamination..... Just something that came to me.....(I read up on this a long time ago...) Have you considered that tschaid?

I doubt, however, that the average person's fuel ever encounters enough water to cause the production of formic acid (in appreciable ammounts)...... But during the distillation process, I was under the impression that you can't "distill" better than 190 proof. That might cause problems in the future if you want to distill your own E85.... I don't know how to get the rest of the water out.... I'm sure there's a way..... What's your take on this tschaid?

 

I sent you an email tschaid

 

Just last week I checked my mileage and came up with 13.8 mpg. 100% city driving... to work and back, errands, etc. I have a 2006 FX-4 5.4L FFV. I am only waiting on the funds to materialize before I call Troyer for a tuner and AF1. Should I wait a while for things to get ironed out with the FFV motor? Is there a better way for me to go? ps... I have yet to burn E-85 as there does not appear to be a readily available supply in Western NC.

 

So are some of you saying that an FFV engine will actually get WORSE gas mileage on gasoline than a non-FFV engine? I'm curious about that. If so, that would certainly be a step backwards.

 

Chester,

Good questions. Damn your getting into it. Protecting the metallic parts. If this were true, Ford would now prepare the engine differently for FFV vs. Non-FFV. Should be easy enough to check out. The challenge is to determine if so I am not going to give your the answer; but, I think you already know the answer.

Distillation process. 190 Proof Alcohol is in fact 5% water. 5% water will absolutely cause significant issues even before you add it into your fuel tank. Gasoline will not mix effectively with 190 Proof Alcohol. So. Since the still can't possible get the last 5% water out of the mix, how do we handle this ? With a molecular sieve. Zeolite is the best product for this purpose and is inexpensive and re-usable.

 

Yep. That is exactly what I saw with the factory tune I reviewed. For 50/50 driving it will still be in the advertised range of 14 to 18. If; however, the vehicle is used primarily for city driving, 14 MPG will not be achieved with the factory tune.

 

I have even had conversations with my local Ford Garage about this very thing. Problem is. I don't like the 2006 F150 FFV tune and I am not interested in running any more gas in my truck than I have to. Remember, that tune is designed to handle everything from 87 Octane 90/10 gas all the way to 105 Octane E85 Ethanol. My wife's 2006 F150 Lariat has lots of room for improvement.

As for being a madman. I think we are all mad in some way. I have submitted for the producers permit so it is all legal and above board.