So did you have $200 in the entire set up or $150 for the tuner and an additional $200 for the tunes?

 

You're questioning how he compared the two tunes when you have never compared your precious Troyer tune to anything else and yet proclaim it 'the best'. That's laughable.

 

It's a serious question. If Bama is better, I want one. I want the very best but I don’t have the funds to start trying different tuners so if hard proof is available, lets see it

 

Well not to offend but if you want the Very Best then ditch the TP tunes and get one done on a real dyno.

I don't know how many times I have explained this but I will do it again. All motors are different, just becaust they are 5.4's or 4.6's does not mean they will respond the same to a specific modification. So when Ford programs the EEC the only way they can insure it will work on every truck they produce is to make a "generic" tune. That is the only reason why there is even room to play with a tune because in the effort to make 1 program that will work on all, some performance has to be left on the table.

With the basics behind us we can now move to mail order tunes. While better than what Ford produced, they too have to live by the same standards that what works on 1 has to work on all hence we have a better "generic" tune, however it is still a "generic" tune.

Put the truck to be tuned on the Dyno and data log it, monitor a/f ratio etc. and you can suck every last bit of power the motor is willing to put out, yet still maintain safe a/f ratios and drivability. A mail order tune can not do this. What if they lean it out a bit too much? You upload the program and get on it, fry a piston or two and now they are getting badmouthed all over the place.

I could see possibly running the car on a dyno and data logging it, sending the info to a tuner and having them adjust it, repeat process with new tune, and by e-mail getting it tuned to perfection, but as far as a "My truck has 3.73's x type intake, x type exhaust, and computer code xxxxx-x" then them saying "here is the tune for you" just isn't going to cut it.

To show you the difference have any of you with a mail order tune put your truck on a dyno to baseline it, then get a pull with the tune to check for improvements? If so what were the before and after numbers? Now granted this is not a Truck but my Mustang is rated at 310hp. Now that is 310 flywheel hp. I am putting 330 to the tires with an intake, o/r midpipe, catback, and everything else stock except for a real dyno tune. That is also through 4.30 gears which are hiding a few ponies.

 

I agree, a dyno tune is the absolute best way to get the most power, period. While I'll never do this with my truck, the mustang is a different story, the bamachips tune is enough for me.

The way I compared the Troyer and Bamachips tunes was easy. I had a friend with the same processor code as my truck. No mods, just exhaust, like mine. Loaded the tune and tried it, then got one from BC and tried it. No 1/4 times, no 0-60's, etc.. but like I said the drivability was alot better. No track needed for that and the low end torque felt alot stronger, again no track needed for that.

Just because you have a tune from TP doesn't mean that it's a custom tune. Unless you do the datalogging and send it to him, you still have a generic tune. BC tunes are the same way. SO, BC's generic tunes are alot stronger by the SOTP meter. IMO

Oh yeah, excellent explanation 01TruBluGT.

 

$200 in the whole setup. I bought the xcal1 used and unlocked it to be used on another vehicle. Uploaded 87 & 89 tunes from my buddies computer and bought a 93 torque tune for $50 from Bamachips.

 

I got a 2-wheel drive, 3:55 posi, 04 Screw with intake, exhaust and Xcal2. My best ¼ mile is 15.13 @ 96.7 and I can do it consistently

 

I also agree a dyno tune is the best way to go. I have about another month and I get to put my truck on the dyno and then send Troyer back my datalogs and let him tweak my tunes. Its already included in my purchase price and Id be crazy to let it go to waste.

One other question for turboscrew. What type of tune did your buddy have on his xcal from Troyer? If it wasnt a 93 torque tune then you are still comparing apples to oranges.

 

[QUOTE=01TruBluGT]Well not to offend but if you want the Very Best then ditch the TP tunes and get one done on a real dyno.

I don't know how many times I have explained this but I will do it again. All motors are different, just becaust they are 5.4's or 4.6's does not mean they will respond the same to a specific modification. So when Ford programs the EEC the only way they can insure it will work on every truck they produce is to make a "generic" tune. That is the only reason why there is even room to play with a tune because in the effort to make 1 program that will work on all, some performance has to be left on the table.

With the basics behind us we can now move to mail order tunes. While better than what Ford produced, they too have to live by the same standards that what works on 1 has to work on all hence we have a better "generic" tune, however it is still a "generic" tune.



'
The 14 years that Troyer has invested in tuning F-150's, and I might add other Ford vehicles, not to mention any American Muscle out there has given him the expertise to achieve the results he does.
I have witnessed his abilities for the past 6 years or so, both through what you call generic tunes, and on his and other dynos. The man knows what he is doing and can normally hit peak HP and Torque numbers through his custom tuning. (99% are within safe A/F's, and most a little fat to be exact)
He tuned my Lightning to 495/628 without ever seeing it let alone having it on a dyno. But once I put it on the dyno, it was EXACTLY where it should be with the tune. He also tuned my 03 Cobra, without ever seeing it, and had it running 11.20's @ 122 mph, with an A/F of 11.7 without ever putting it on the dyno. Same situation when I attended an SVT Chapters dyno days with this car. The dyno operater could not believe that the numbers were 475/515 and that Mike had never dynoed it...Most attendees there with other tuners tunes could not come close to my numbers.
Mike has vast amounts of statistics and such that he has compiled while tuning and "Dynoing" thousands of these trucks , and other vehicles which has enable him to produce the tunes that he does.
I tried the others in the beginning but am very happy the I found Troyer.

 

[QUOTE=Marc Carpenter]yeah, b17ches

 

Go back and read my post. I was not knocking TP in any way or saying that his tunes are not worth the money either. All I am saying is that a mail order tune can not contend with a custom dyno tune done by a tuner who knows what they are doing. So your tune was pretty dead on, thats what one out of 1000. Personally I would have to say that that was a bit of neglegence on your part to trust a tune that is a guestimation of what you should have based on a conversation. One little lean spike could have fried your car.

Like I said, NO 2 CARS ARE THE SAME and therefore what works tunning wise on this one might not work on that one. Perfect example my car is holding 26 deg of timming on pump gas. Do you know how many Mach 1's just like mine with the exact same bolt ons are able to hold 26 deg timming? I have seen some that can and some that won't hold past 22 deg without wanting to pop. So lets say that I make a generalization that some can handle 26 while others can't. I know that most all will hold 22 deg. so I set my tunes with the 22 deg. Now Car A who can only handle the 22 deg. slaps his car on the dyno and magicly his tune is perfect. Car B straps up and the tunner is able to add another 4 deg. to his tune and improve on what was sent in the mail. Now lets say that car C is different and can only handle 20 deg. what happens when that guy takes his car, loads up the tune and gets on it.

Either way you want to go I guess it is all up to the end user and the chances he wants to take. Troyer DOES do great work I am not arguing that, I am simply saying that if you do a mail order tune don't expect it to be perfect and I really wouldn't expect it to be totaly safe. I would bring the truck to a dyno and put it on the rollers to verify it before I would risk damage to my motor.

 

how much does it cost to get a tune done by the dyno guy? do you have to buy a tuner then let him adjust it or will he just do it all??? like how much would it cost total to have one of these tunes done..(i dont have a tuner now)

thanks

 

I paid $620 total for the Xcal and 3 tunes. I have 1 valet tune, and the same tune twice with different 2steps set in them one at 4200 and one for 5k. I had the car on the dyno for about 2 hours total. It was tuned after about the first 6 pulls but the tuner wanted to keep pulling and try to tweak a few things here and there. He found another 10 or so hp by the time he finished. Over all I was very pleased with his work. The car is rated at 310 fly wheel hp and he got me 330 to the tires which is like 365-370 on the flywheel. The only mods to the car are CAI, o/r mid pipe and a catback.

 

Team Ford Marietta GA wants $850 for 3 tunes on dyno with xcal2. A far cry from what I paid for TP to do it, and he netted me a 25HP baseline increase from my diablo custom tune.

There is no doubt in my mind, after the whole thing went down, that TP knows exactly what can and needs to be done to optimize the tuning efficiancy of these trucks. I haven't even gone back yet to test out my *tweaked* tune, but I have no doubt its 10 or more HP better which nets me 35HP from a tuner change. That would be 10% increase on 350HP motor, even though mine is more like a 20% increase on my little nonPI motor.

So figure in the cost of dyno time and all else, I am still well under the $850 my local tuner wanted, which leaves more money for more goodies at a later date (although, I am about out of goodies to buy, short a new block!)

 

Um, 260 factory rated HP, which comes down to about 200 at the wheels (give or take a few, most likely take) with only a tuner and some exhuast isn't going to hit 330 to the wheels, I don't care if Steve Saleen himself tuned it. This is assuming of course, that its an 01 GT