I had a question about installing a wideband O2 sensor a/f ratio meter like the LM-1 from Innovate Motorsports. Is there any that can be installed easily without having to be welded into your exhaust system? Or maybe I have misunderstood how they are setup and the bungs don't actually need to be welded in? Forgive me if this is a very stupid question. Any insight on this is welcome.

Thanks

 

For proper tuning and readings the wideband needs to before the catalitic converters. They do have a clamp that will hold the sensor in the tail pipe but as I said this is not as acurate. Also from what I have read you could install the wideband in one of the origanal O2 sensor bungs and then use one of the outputs from the LM1 to send a signal back to the computer. All this is much more difficult than the 10 minutes that it takes for a qualified person to weld the bung on and drill a hole, you also get a plug to install when you remove the wideband O2 much simpler and the location will be much easier to work with. The LM1 is a great tool to have and from what I understand it can be conected to the XCAL2 for datta loging. Or you can datt log with the lm1

 

Thanks for the info, chucks. Sounds like getting the bung welded before the cat is the best thing to do. Now, to just be able to get the "boss's" permission to purchase one.

 

How do they do it at a dyno? They must use the tailpipe clamp. Would that way work alright or is the bung a 'must do'? Mike, how is it done at your 'dyno days'? I'm really leaning towards getting one of those LM1s.

 

When I had my first dyno pull done the dyno operater welded in the bung, ther was a small one time charge for the service. It was a dynojet facility and they used a dynojet wide band. Took him only minutes for the install, If memory serves me correct I believe they charged $25.00 including the bung and stainless steel plug. It was great because I have used it many times since then.

 

Hi Guys,

Hang on here a second..................It's not actually true that you must get the data from in front of the catalytic converters.

The reality is, that is only required if you are going to do a *permanent* installation of the LM-1 on a single vehicle - otherwise you can very easily use the Innovate Motorsports exhaust clamp and get accurate readings - we do it all the time. And, we have done *numerous* direct simultaneous comparisons to AFR1's, Horiba's, etc (the $3K-$10K A/F meters). and the LM-1 does a fine job with it's exhaust clamp when used correctly. That's the reality of it.

We use the LM-1 all the time with their specially designed exhaust clamp, and it is extremely accurate, as it is properly designed. That patented design is not like other exhaust clamps - it does not pick up info from anywhere near the wall of the tubing where airspeed is low, it gets it right from the sweet spot, with the O2 sensor fixed at the right angle, etc.

This is the setup we use any time we want to datalog a vehicle when it's not on the dyno, and I can tell you that it's every bit as accurate as a $3000 Horiba unit - and, the LM-1 can also use an NTK sensor should anyone want to go to that length as well.

So no, I do not agree that you cannot get accurate A/F's from the tailpipe, that just isn't an across the board truth anymore - that's something that was true up until a few years ago, and we used to tell people the very same thing - don't sniff the tailpipe - but not any more, not with the right gear used properly.

The LM-1 "standard" kit comes with what you need to do a permanent installation on the vehicle - the rpm extender cable, exhaust clamp, inductive rpm pickup etc that are required for a quick 5-minute temporary install like we use it are optional items.

In fact, if you take a look on our web site, you will see 3 different versions of the LM-1 kit - the standard baseline kit, which includes just what is required to do a permanent install on 1 vehicle (which means welding in a bung in the exhaust, and it's very easy to have any exhaust shop do that for you at very low cost), and then there is next up middle of the road version that includes the rpm extender cable, and then last is what we call our "Tuner" version, which has all the extra bits & pieces so that you can quickly strap it only ANY vehicle in 5 minutes and get your A/F's very quickly, and then take it right back off, and take it to the next vehicle - you know, like a tuner would do, which is precisely how we use it.

So that's the scoop - the reason some people say you can't get good readings from sniffing the tailpipe (and truth be told, a lot of people who say that really don't even know the why behind it) is because the cats store extra oxygen during normal operation that they release to help burn off the richer A/F that happens at full-throttle when you do a dyno pull, for example - and that extra oxygen can skew the reading a little bit. But the reality is that these V8 engines push enough airflow that this is really not a concern when using good gear, we have no problems getting good A/F info using *proper* equipment the right way when sniffing from the tailpipe. Now if I have a choice, sure, I like to see the data from before the cats - but that is not any kind of requirement, and using good gear you aren't going to see more than a couple of tenths of a point difference in the A/F at most - so don't let that worry you.

It all gets down to using good equipment correctly.

If you have any more questions on this, please feel free to give us a call, we carry the LM-1 in stock and can answer any questions you might have about it, how to use it, it's various configurations, etc.