So I've had my X2 for a month or so, just got around to hooking it up this past weekend since I finally finished my header install. First off, this thing rocks! Now to the real point...

I ordered my X2 from Troyer on 7/15 and filled out the CPW indicating that I was going to install the headers while waiting for my X2 and that I had a JLT True Cold Air Intake that I was going to put on my '04 5.4L 3V truck. When I got my X2 (with it's excellent Troyer documentation) it was noted several times that you can't guarantee the tuning (rightfully so and understood) done would work or not for that CAI and that it might need custom tuning based off datalogging, and that combined with JLT telling me that I need a "tune" to accomodate for the CAI or I could severely damage my engine has brought me to this point.

I have not installed my CAI yet, but have installed my headers and the X2. What I'd like to do, is install the CAI and hook up the X2 datalogging/livelink to my laptop and drive my truck a little to verify whether or not it's unsafe or not. Is this even possible with just the X2 and it's data logging/livelink capabilities, or do I need something else.

Another question on these same lines is this, do these newer vehicles run (underlying) on a target A/F ratio, or is that just a function of the air/fuel tables that you set in the tuning?

Basically, I'm asking can I safely install my (non-troyer approved) CAI and log information off my truck while driving it with just the X2 and a laptop to know if it's safe to run as is, or not and will need more "custom" tuning?

I've tried calling and talking to Mike directly but he's a very busy man, and the direct technicality of my question doesn't seem to get the correct response from the others I talk to there. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated.

 

You'll need something to read the A/F ratios.

 

I figured as much, so therefore, as far as my question context is concerned, all the X2 can do for me is clear the SES light if it comes on and tell me via a DTC why it came on, correct?

 

Hi DevilSun,

No, that is not correct - the XCal 2 is far more capable than that.
You need to follow our datalogging instructions and get the required data, all of which is obtainable with your XCal 2 with the sole exception of the A/F ratios. I’m happy to see that you’re doing the smart thing and not just slapping that intake kit on and driving it around without getting that data first – that’s a very wise decision.

You can easily go to a dyno, install the intake kit right there in the parking lot, put it on the dyno, get the data, reinstall the stock intake to drive it back home and send us that data so we can take a look at it and start making adjustments for you.

This kind of situation is precisely why we provide every one of our custom tuning customers with very easy to understand and thorough datalogging instructions, so they can easily get that data for us to analyze it and make corrections to the tuning if need be - which may require only one adjustment if you are very lucky, or may very well require several rounds of adjustments to dial in the A/F ratios with an intake kit for a 5.4 3V. That is what custom tuning is all about, getting the data and us dialing in the tuning for you.

That intake kit might be perfectly fine - and I hope it is - then again, it may not be, as most are not the 3V engines. I know this can be frustrating, as so many companies make intake kits - but with the 3V engines like the 5.4 3V in the F-150 we’ve seen numerous instances of A/F ratios in the 16:1-19:1 range with many intake kits, so it requires proper datalogging to KNOW.

This is why we have spent so much time here the past 2 years warning people about intake kits for use on these 5.4 3V's, which are far different than the typical 2003 & earlier F-150's, where just about any intake kit could be used and you'd be pretty much OK - you can no longer just go out and buy any intake kit & put it on and know you'll be safe like you could with the 2003 & earlier trucks. That changed in 2004 with the 5.4 3V and it's different MAF system, whose transfer function usually varies radically with many of the aftermarket intake kits.

Right now, you can use the XCal 2 to the datalog fuel trims in closed loop (the no-load datalogging we talk about in our instructions), and that will tell you what happens at light throttle operation – you can also try datalogging while driving the vehicle around in “normal” driving, not using any heavy throttle, and we can see what the fuel trims are there & go over that with you. But that still isn't going to tell you much about what when it transitions over into open loop, so to get this right, you must also have the actual A/F ratios too. You can very easily have a scenario in which at some rpms & throttle positions it's "OK," yet at many others it's WAY off - that is precisely why that data must be obtained & what custom tuning is about - getting that data so it can be analyzed and any necessary corrections made.

I suggest that you first spend some time working with the LiveLink software and your XCal 2 to do some datalogging and get familiar with that software and comfortable datalogging with LiveLink before you go to a dyno to get the A/F's - save a configuration file, and be sure you are getting proper data, etc., as it can be confusing - there are repeated PID's, some in both upper and lower case, etc. There is a short "video" at the sctflash.com web site that is well worth taking a look at to get familiar with the basics of datalogging with LiveLink. There are also message boards there to provide support for that software as well, if you have any issues or just need help getting up to speed, etc. You will want to work with it and get familiar with it BEFORE you go to a dyno to get your A/F ratios, as while it's on the dyno getting the A/F ratios, you will have to be datalogging everything else at the same time they are getting the A/F ratios for you - all of the "load" data must be obtained simultaneously, and if you don't get some of the data, it has to be done again. So you want to be familiar & able to get the data you need with LiveLink before hitting the dyno.

Dyno pulls are cheap - a fraction of what the XCal 2 or that intake kit cost you. Another option is to get your own wideband A/F setup - they too, are cheaper than the XCal 2 and that way, you can log your own A/F ratios any time you want by doing 2nd gear pulls on a side road. If you want to go over that I'll be happy to explain that to you, etc., just give us a call at our number listed below.

I hope this helps your understanding a bit better, don't let this worry you too much as you can always give us a call, & good luck!

 

Mike, thank you much for the very in-depth and lengthy response...although the actions weren't what I hoped for, it's what exactly what I assumed to be the case after seeing all the quirks of these "new" systems. Unfortunately there aren't ANY dyno's within a reasonable distance to me that I know of so I'm going to have to do some searching.

As far as the possibility of only having to change one or a few values, and one pull or more, are these values the ones that can be tweaked with an XTR file and the SCT PT software along with some pre-emptive guidance being that I don't have easy access to a dyno -- which obviously we'd talk about ahead of time?

Guess I need to try to track down a dyno close to me before anything, thanks again for your response(s) Mike.

 

Hi DevilSun,

You're more than welcome!

No, you are not going to be able to tweak this yourself via an xtr file & using the SCT Extreme Tune software. See, that software is only designed to allow very minor tweaks to a few limited areas, so as not to allow people the potential to blow up their engines. It cannot make any change to the MAF transfer function, which is what has to be done to dial in the A/F ratios, that is the only correct way to do this. That work has to be done by us - the only way around that is to purchase the Pro Racer software package for your truck from us, and then learn how to do MAF transfer function changes - which takes some time and will cost more than several trips toe a dyno, or picking up your own LM-1 wideband A/F recorder from us, etc.

See, in this kind of scenario, it's not like you just go into the fuel table and add or subtract a little fuel, as Extreme Tune allows across the board with no fine control whatsoever - this type of work requires painstaking adjustments to each of the 30 points of the MAF transfer function, and usually several rounds of changes to each of those points in the MAF TF - especially in these 2004 & up F-150's, as they take much more work to dial in the A/F's from a tuning standpoint than the older 2003 & earlier F-150's do. Usually with a 2003 or earlier F-150, you can nail the A/F's with one round of adjustments, where the 2004 & up F-150's generally take about 3 rounds of adjustments on average.

Just FYI - you never want to try fixing a problem with A/F ratios not being what is commanded by simply adding or removing fuel in the fuel tables with the type of gross across-the-board adjustment that ExtremeTune allows - that is completely dead wrong tuning technique, and can potentially be a good way to smoke an engine in a worst-case scenario - see, doing it that way does not allow for any change in air density (humidity, barometric pressure, temperature, etc.), to allow the Mass Air system to work as designed - which takes all of that into consideration automatically to protect the engine when the MAF transfer function is properly calibrated. And that can be done *only* by scaling the MAF transfer function very carefully, just to give you an idea of what actually has to be done - so it's simply far beyond what can be done via something like ExtremeTune can properly do.

One thing to do is to drop by the dynojet.com web site (the manufacturer of Dynojet dynos, the most common & readily available type of dyno in most areas), and see where the closest dyno is to you. No matter where you are, worst case scenario in the most desolate and sparsely populated areas in America, it's a drive of maybe a couple to a few hundred miles - which is nothing to get the data you need. Another dyno manufacturer is the Mustang dyno - so via search engines, yo can go to either manufacturer's web site, and look up to see just where the closest dyno to you actually is, to give you an idea of what you are really looking at - so you can decide if that is the way to go, or if you just want to pick up the LM-1 A/F recorder fro us so you can do your own A/F's any time, anywhere.

For someone in this situation, at least IMHO, the really smart thing to do would be to simply pick up one of our LM-1 portable wideband A/F ratio recorders, so you can do your *own* A/F testing & recording any time you want, anywhere you want. A lot of our customers do that - some of them will go in together with 1 or 2 other friends to pick one up so they can share the unit, to defray that expense even further, so it costs next to nothing for each person - and that way, you do not need a dyno at all, but instead, can get your own A/F ratios any time you want, at your convenience. It only takes a couple trips to the dyno to pay for one of those units.

I hope this info helps you a bit further, & feel free to call us if you want to go over any of this!

 

Covers everything very well, thanks again. Nearest DynoJet I could find is in Eugene (~170 miles north one way) and Mustang Dyno is in Klamath (~70 miles east one way)...and at the price of fuel, it'd only take two round-trips to Eugene and back and dyno run at each trip to cover the cost of a LM-1 so I very well might take that route but am going to wait on the arrival of some upcoming job raise news.

I figured the Extreme Tune software wouldn't do what is needed, and if it did I figured it would just be "patching" the problem instead of fixing it -- which is one thing I'm used to as a software engineer and I do not accept "patching" of a problem when there is a readily available, viable, permanent, and correct solution.

I'll definitely get in touch with you when the time is right because I'd like to verify some of the datalogging instructions and more specifically inconjunction with the LM-1 when/if I go that route.

So I guess in relative terms, the 30 point MAF transfer function itself is equivalent to like a 30-band stereo equalizer, or at least that's how I visualize it in it's base form. I see how that can be a painstaking process, and is definitely more motivation to do the LM-1 route myself.

Thanks for looking out for me and providing me with more than enough information to make a very informed decision about tuning my vehicle correctly from the get go and injecting your average experiences with custom tuning and MAF transfer functions and the number of times on average it takes to get the A/F right across the board. I'm sure this information will come in handy to more than just myself if people use the "search".

And people asked me why I went with Troyer...need I even reply? I think not...Thanks Mike!

 

Hi DevilSun,

Very well said re: the 30-band equalizer analogy - I used to be a pro touring musician, and thankfully, the sound companies setting up those EQ's for each venue were pretty much done automatically in that equipment for each stadium/arena/club by acoustic sound sampling - I'd hate to even think of trying to do that myself manually!

Since you are a software engineer (I had no idea), then you most of all can appreciate a proper MAF transfer function recalibration for fix rather than a "band-aid" method of trying to throw more fuel at it across the entire range via gross percentages as Extreme Tune does - well said once again.

It's actually very cool that you have a Mustang dyno within 70 miles of you - they are load-bearing dynos that, while they will always read lower (power readings) on gas engines, do have a lot more capability than the typical Dynojet - usually for most people it's just the opposite - they have to drive a much longer way to get to a Mustang dyno than a Dynojet, simply due to the significant difference in cost & how much longer Dynojet has been around, they are much more prevalent.

For someone like you, with your background, I'm guessing you'd probably be much happier being able to test your own A/F's any time, anywhere. And yes, of course we'll be more than happy to go over the exact procedures for datalogging, no problem - in fact, we prefer to have each person contact us just prior to doing that, to insure they have a thorough enough understanding on the easiest way to do it, a few tips, etc. Our docs are pretty good for a quick & dirty datalog guide for the datalogging novice (so to speak), but it's always nice to touch base & go over everything in detail.

Good luck & talk to you soon!