Just curious how integrated the engine management is w/ the rest of the vehilce.

Could one take just the engine w/ all it's senors and wires along
with the stock ECU and drop it on a bare chassis and expect it to run (assuming you have fuel/pump, battery).

Thanks,
Rey

 

Sure, as long as you take all the sensors, harrness etc as it was out of the donor vehicle.
When it comes to modifying, you need some knowledge on what and how the system works.
Some ECU activities can be turned off by program changes for certain application and changes.
In the case of PCM systems, you have transmission control that needs to be kept in place unless going to an early transmission, for example.
As for how well the drivability turns out is another question.
If you a good back yard engineer all the better.

 

Thank you for the reply.

All my knowledge is tied up in VW's and bosch motronic ECU's which integrate the engine management into about everything else. This makes it impossible to thing of doing a swap without an aftermarket standalone engine management system.

Thank you again for your insight!
Rey

 

There is sort of a dividing line on all this.
Those engine manegment systems in the transition peroid, that could be made to operate without electronic control are eaiser to use; but those that take the traditional ignition internal to the engine and make the ECU run the system, control the transmission etc are very cost prohibitive to convert to other means of control unless cost is no object.
Good luck.

 

Hello Rey,

How "integrated" the powertrain controls are with the rest of the vehicle depends on the individual vehicle, model & model year. For example, in the new body style F-150's (2004 & up), they are CAN - Controller Area Network - which is actually an *electrical* standard that is required on all vehicles sold in the US starting in the 2007 model year (may get pushed back to 2008, but so far, it's required as of 2007), where darn near everything on the vehicle is on that network. Very "integrated."

Now in the 1997-2003 pre-CAN F-150's (including 2004 Heritage), the PCM talks to the GEM module, and the dash cluster as well - but you don't have nearly as much "integration" of the powertrain controls with the rest of the vehicle as you do in the new body style F-150's released in 2004. And so on.................so it really gets down to the individual vehicle, model, and model year (and sometimes which engine is the exact same model & year) that determines just how "integrated" the powertrain controls are with the rest of the vehicle.

We do quite a bit of tuning, consulting & installations for engine swaps, upgrades & retrofits, ranging from people wanting to drop a V10 into a Mustang to dropping a 5.4 V8 into a Mustang or an F-150 that originally had a V6 or 4.6 V8, or to use any of the DOHC motors, like putting a Cobra motor into a 60's Mustang, or use any of a number of computer-controlled powertrains in fat-fender rods, etc., etc.

It's basically possible to take virtually any FoMoCo engine and run it in *any* vehicle you can shoehorn it into with any manual transmission setup and use the factory PCM, wiring harness & sensors, with the appropriate fuel delivery system, once it's tuned properly. A common swap among F-150 owners is a 5.4 (all of which are COP (coil-on-plug) into an F-150 that originally had a non-COP 4.6 V8 - and you can easily use the original non-COP ignition system on a COP engine using the original 4.6 PCM (and here we're talking FoMoCo's, as this is a Ford-specific web site).

Now when it comes to using a different automatic transmission than what the factory Ford PCM being used was designed for, now *there* you will run into problems - I.E., you can't use a PCM for say, a 4R70W transmission and have it correctly control an E4OD or a 4R100 tranny or vice-versa - there will be some real problems crop up, sooner or later if not *immediately*.

Now in the newer FoMoCo PowerPC-based PCM vehicle applications (the "new" Tbird, 2004 & up F-150, 2005 Mustang, 6.0 PSD's, etc.), especially those vehicles that are CAN (Controller Area Network - (6.0 PSD, 2004 & up F-150, 2005 Mustang, etc.), there you've got more of a challenge and expense in say, a retrofit or some swap types of applications, as virtually everything is on that network. We just helped one of our dealers put a Tremec TR600 in a 2005 Mustang, for example, that will soon be in one of the major 'rags - you just have to do a bit of work to get the speedometer to read correctly. Converting/retrofitting fuel delivery systems - say, converting the newer electronic true returnless system to a "conventional" return style setup is certainly do-able, and is in many cases required at higher power levels.

Overall, many types of swaps, upgrades & retrofits are possible using the factory PCM, harness (sometimes with modifications) and sensors - we have a lot of customers who put Lightning engines into virtually anything - older trucks, Mustangs, and all sorts of other vehicles, including some GM's, for example. If the tuner knows what he's doing, it can be done.

But for any such swap, BEFORE buying anything or making any hard decisions, the best bet is to talk with a knowledgeable bona fide tuner who has done that type of swap before and is willing to get involved.

Just FYI..............

 

A true gem of information. Thank you VERY much!!!!!

Rey