Greetings Mike...

Can a dealer void a bumper to bumper warranty or the powertrain portion for use of a Tuner/Chip/Xcalibrator

I am familiar with the M/M ACT but the dealer I go to for service said they CAN & WILL void the powertrain warranty if they can detect that a tuner of any sort has been used. The service manger I spoke to said the M/M ACT doesn't apply because I (the consumer) CAN'T prove the tuner didn't cause any malfunction but they (the service dept) CAN prove the tuner did change engine parameters. He mentioned that they can tell if you used a tuner in the past and then removed it (I'm not sure I believe that). He went on to say that the service dept has several thousands of $$$$ worth of diagnostic equipment that can show all the fault/specs/etc.. of the engine and PCM. Therefore they can show that something is different than factory specs if you use a tuner. He also said FORD will always side with the dealers because I (the consumer) have nothing to stand on other than the advertising of the Tuner companies. I heard all this today when I tried to have them reflash my PCM. They refused to do so because their diagnostic machine doesn't indicate anything is wrong with my truck.

Any Thoughts Mike???

Thanks
KC-10 FE out...

 

Why do you want a re-flash if nothing is wrong? just curious

 

I have already responded to this in the first thread you posted this in, so my response can be found there - as well as in the SEARCH feature, where we have covered this literally countless hundreds, if not thousands of times before.

 

If youre dealer service mjr. feels this way you need to stay away and find a new dealer with a customer friendly service deparment. And please remember to tell all youre friends and neighbors how willing they are willing to work with you.
The dealers have a catalague full of aftermarket products, though there are no tuners YET I bet if you pay him an arm and a leg for one of these accessories they won't void youre warenty!!!
After being a Ford servicemanager for over 20 years, that just frosts my !*/s when I hear someone tell a customer something like that.

 

The local Ford dealer in my neighborhood has Hypertech products behind the parts counter. They recently opened a "performance center" at a nearby location where they sell and install Ford Racing as well as aftermarket parts. I asked the mgr. about warranty issues and the response was "I can't put it in writing but I am willing to work with you if we installed the parts." He also mentioned he was required to follow Ford warranty guidelines if pressed but felt he could make some decisions on his own if the claims were reasonable.

 

I have no doubt that installing a tune or any preformance increasing part WILL void your power train warrantee.

The M/M act only applies to parts that are subject to normal wear/replacement like Air filters, oil filters, tires, shocks, etc...

The law was never intended for parts intended to increass hp or torque.

I called FORD and discussed this with them. They pointed out clearly in the warrantee that these type of parts would ineed void the warrantee.

I can also assure you that FORD or the dealr will win if a problem arises. The burden of proof would be on your back and few individuals could match the legal powere weilded by FORD or the dealers.

In other words, if there is an issue, you will lose the arugment and case if it comes to that. What legal argumet would you make?

Having said all of that, I think it all boils down to chosing a good dealership. Some would help you others would not. However, if a pissing contest breaks out over a warrantee issue you will most likely lose if you have made preformance enhancements....

Again, these are just my opinions base on talks with FORD, Dealers and by actually reading the warrantee...

 

Well that’s a pretty negative heavy-duty first posts stranger. I don’t agree with your scenario at all though. The part about “The M/M act only applies to parts that are subject to normal wear/replacement like Air filters, oil filters, tires, shocks, etc...” is BS. Those parts are maintenance items that wear out and are changed on a regular maintenance schedule. When is the last time you heard of someone using the Magnum-Moss Act for a bad oil filter, etc.

 

My dealer has taken care of 3 ppst warenty repairs on my truck with a powerdyne supercharger installed and one was a head gasket. These problems were all known Ford issues they were not caused by supercharger or custom tune. I do spend some of my money at the dealership, I will pay a little more for a quality part or oil change and state inspection, but they have also helped me when they could have turned their back.
Sales are down dealers are looking for service work most of the time they dont care who is paying, Ford or customer as long as they get their money. They are retaining a happy customer and a happy FORD CUSTOMER.

 

The burden of proof is on the dealer or Ford not you. He has to prove that the modification or aftermarket part you installed caused the component in question to fail. If they prove that they can and will void the warranty on that item. They cannot however void the warranty on the whole vehicle. If they prove that your tuning caused the engine failure for example then you would be responsible for replacing that engine not Ford. I feel that is fair. I would find another dealership that understands the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.

 

Sorry if I steped on any toes, but I have discussed this at length with both FORD and my dealer. I did this research because I wanted to put a tune and a few other goodies in my 2005 Mustang GT. However, after several coversations with both FORD and my dealer ( who is a Steeda & Saleen dealer ) I decided to wait. My argument was that the steeda and saleen models all include an after market tune. However, the FORD rep I talked to pointed out the fact that these companies have written authorization by FORD to make these modifications.

Ask your tuner if they are willing to specifically put it in writting that their product will not void your warrantee and see what they say...

You can call my post negative if you like, but I think way too many people are under the false notion that these parts do not create significant warrantee issues. All you need to do is actually read your warrantee.

Again, I was simply stating my opinion based on conversations with both FORD and my dealer and for the record, I am about to install a tune and some other parts on my 2000 F150 Truck. I am just trying to decide what to go with...

 

While I have every intention of getting a tune from Mike when my truck arrives (due the 28th !!! yea!!!) I think there's some practical issues being missed here...

First, it goes without saying that "most" dealers want your business, and if they can fix it for you, most will. If the failure is documented as being an issue on non-tuned vehicles, you probably won't have a problem at all. If on the other hand, you go to them with a seldom seen problem, except in the case of abuse.... you may have issues.

Second, if the dealer doesn't agree that the issue is warranty, what are you going to do? I know x-plan requires arbitration, but an outright sale may not. This could be an important difference. Arbitrators, to my experience, seem to be more strict, where... a local small claims court (DJ here in PA) may be a little more lenient.

Third, are you going to retain counsel? Well, if so, be prepared. The cost of representation may well exceed the amount in controversy. If you go it alone, you'll probably have a harder time at an arbitration than a DJ.

My point here is that whether the issue is a tune, or some other malfunction, you NEED the dealer on your side, or it's really not worth it. I had an H1 with a chip, and the mechanic told me to not worry, the Hummer rep would never see it... Later, he innocently asked where I got a $15 tool laying in the back; he had never seen one like it. The next week, I picked one up for him It's all in the relationship. If you go in to bust *****, you better stay away from a tune. You develop a relationship with the dealership and your mechanic, you'll never have a problem (as long as you don't abuse your vehicle).

 

Very well stated, you have to work with the service department, they are there to help the customer and make a living. No customers no work !!!!

 

I wont ever take my truck back to the dealer UNLESS I have a warranty issue. If I do have the unfortunate luck of having a warranty issue, I would never admit to putting any aftermarket performance parts on my truck, period.

Just retune it back to stock, let them do their thing, and if they dont ask, you dont tell. If they do ask, say, I've never heard of that, what is a superchip???