Mike (superchips),

I have a hypertech chip installed in my truck.The only thing I notice is a little bit of a firmer shift. Other then that, the chip stinks. Please help me for pick out a chip that is suitable for my truck and needs. I would like nothing better then to take that piece of ***** chip and throw it out to pasture. I'm looking for a firmer shift to get rid of the slush box feel. Way better performance then that you know who chip. I've also noticed that the other members are talking about shift kits. I was told that I couldn't put a shift kit in my truck for the fact that i had a push button OD on the gear selector. Please help if you can.


1997 F-150 4X4 OFF-ROAD
4.6
K-N GENERATION SYSTEM
TRUE DUAL W/FLOMASTERS
HYPERTECH CHIP(JUNK)
CERVINI'S RAM AIR HOOD(soon to be functional when the kit from cervini's is completed)

Future mods are:
POWERAID THROTTLE BODY SPACER
JBA HEADERS
GRANATELLI MASS AIR SENSOR
BIGGER THROTTLE BODY
SHIFT KIT????????


Hope you can help, and please don't tell me that superchips and hypertech are the same company. I'll feel like a fool and owe you an apology. Thanks.

 

Hi F-150 Ram Air,

Welcome to F-150 Online!

I'm sorry to hear you're not happy with your Hypertech unit.

One thing to note is that because you have an aftermarket mass airflow meter, you will need custom programming done, because that Granatelli unit (like any other aftermarket MAF for these vehicles) leans out the A/F ratio quite a bit, that's how they achieve a power gain on a basically stock engine (meaning a motor without ported cylinder heads or a supercharger). That needs to be compensated for, which we can do, no problem.

And you'll be happy to know that there is nothing inherent in your 1997 F-150 making it not feasible to install a shift kit, and shift kits are readily available, so there shouldn't be any problem there, it doesn't matter that you have a 4-speed automatic with Overdrive.

However, we would advise you to wait to do that until at least 30 days after you've had your new Superchip (if that's what you're going to do) installed, so you have a good feel for just how it shifts in all situations, as most people find they really don't need to install a shift kit on top of what the Superchip itself already does to improve automatic transmission shift characteristics, our automatic tranhsmission calibrations are far more thorough than Hypertech's. And since you're going to need a custom program anyway, we can crank that line pressure up to meet most expectations for extra-firm shifting, if that is what you desire.

Overall, I think the best thing to do would be to just give us a call and let's talk a bit about what you're doing with the truck, and what you want to get out of it, how firm you want the upshifts to feel, etc., and we can easily make the Superchip with the program that will benefit your vehicle the most for your goals. We'll need to get you the custom program worksheet for you to fill out listing your modifications, which is very quick & easy, and we can take care of this for you.

So jsut give us a call when you get a chance, we're here M-F 10am t0 7pm Eastern, and we'll be happy to go over all of this with you, ok?

Hang in there my friend, we'll get that truck tuned for best power & shifting like you want, and what you seem to want to do shouldn't be any problem.

And we also hope you'll hang out with us here on F-150 Online in your spare time, it's a great place to learn about these trucks and meet some new friends, too!

Talk to you soon,

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Mike,

A note of caution on comparing the Superchip's affect on shifting and a shift kit: they are not the same. Most programming solutions are to increase the line pressure to cause the shifts to happen faster. I don't know if you also do something in the Superchip to eliminate things like torque management (a much hated word in my wife's Chevy) or not. But there are limits to what you can do via the computer.

In the shift kits I have worked with, the kit adds springs to help open & close the valvles. Thus two things are accomplished, 1. the valves open and close more quickly making a smoother shift (or harder if you put in the most aggressive springs) and 2. the line pressure necessary is actually lower decreasing wear on the pump and heat in the transmission (the elimination of overlap between gears also cuts down on heat but increases the chance of whiplash ).

So while you can boost up the line pressure with the chip, I think in the long run a shift kit is a better idea. It should increase the life of the tranny. They weren't that expensive for my wife's Camaro for which everything is expensive and relatively easy to do (if anything involving removing the tranny cover can be called easy).

Not to dis the chip, I have one and would continue to have it should I put the shift kit in my truck.

Chuck

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2001 Gen I Screw Lariat
Air Raid, Superchip

 

Hi I-MUD,

I couldn't disagree with you much more, I'm afraid.

It is *never* just a matter of line pressure increases only in the Superchip, that is not correct at all. I mean no offense to you, please understand Chuck, I kow you mean well and are just trying to help. But I have to point out that your "information" in that regard is simply not ecorrect. Torque reduction strategies used by various automakers are just one of *many* aspects that are indeed important to the best obtainable characteristics, and that we do indeed know very well about, and do in fact optimize for our applications.

Superchips pretty much leads the world in this regard, so we know very well what can and cannot be done via powertrain programming in that regard, in fact, that's one of the reasons why the automakers themselves hire Superchips for this very type of work.

Given the choice between any shift kit on the market today and a Superchip, having done many of both on many different vehicles for many years, I'd take the Superchip first, any day, as it's *far* more thorough, and affects many things that no shift kit can ever begin to.

We generally recommend using a shift kit if the transmission is just not physically capable of producing the desired line pressure without changing it's mechanical configuration, or if we feel the orifice size in the PCS is too small. What can be changed in the program is not anywhere near as limited as the impression you seem to have.

You're welcome to your opinion, and if you prefer a shift kit, that's perfectly fine by us, it's your vehicle. However, there isn't a single Superchips FoMoCo application we offer, and no other application that I know of that we offer for any vehicle with a computer-controlled automatic transmission where line pressure is the only thing that is changed in our automatic transmisison programming.

I wish you well,

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 05-09-2001).]

 

Mike,

Wait, I didn't say I prefer a shift kit to the Superchip! Nor did I say I knew exactly what it did. I'm not a chip detractor by any means.

The point I was trying to make is that increasing line pressure via programming in the tranny over nominal can never be a good thing. It can, at best, cause no damage. However, as far as I know, the only way to increase the line pressure via programming is to turn up the pump. I don;t think there are any variably programmed gates. And any pump when asked to operate at a higher flow rate or pressure will wear faster than when not.

I don't know all of the things that the chip does to clean up the shift. I have one in my truck and noticed it right away. But I do know that you cannot harm the tranny by enlarging the openings (within reason) to create a greater flow or by assiting the opening & closing of valves with springs thus reducing the overlap where two gears are engaged. These mechanical changes will make the pumps life easier and require less line pressure increase for the same benefit.

I don't plan on removing my Superchip if & when I get a shift kit unless the two are not compatible. Is that a problem that I should be aware of?

Mike, you are usually so calm on this board but I think I hit a nerve. I didn't intend to and that's a lot from me as usually I am a PITA BTW, don't worry about disagreeing with me just make sure you're not wrong I like using the "I told you so" card. Of course on the flip side of mine is the "I guess I was wrong" sign as well

Peace,

Chuck

------------------
2001 Gen I Screw Lariat
Air Raid, Superchip

 

I-Mud, my responses to you have nothing to do with being "calm or polite", it's a simple matter of *facts*; you really couldn't be much further out on left field about this, I'm afraid, and again, no offense intended.

UPDATE: I have gone back and edited this post, as I don't want to start a feud or let things get personal here in any way, as I know I-MUD is really just trying to help.

Just a couple of quick comments Chuck, on a couple of basic points.........

1.) The front pump does *not* have to be "overdriven" in any way to increase available line pressure. Nor is increasing line pressure automatically detrimental to an automatic transmission. If someone were to get carried away with things and try to run say, 10 times normal line pressure, you could run into a situation where other components need to be modified to allow proper fluid flow *volume* at those way-high line pressures, but that's well beyond anything we're doing, of course.

2.) Line pressure is indeed something that can be adjusted from within the powertrain program in computer-controled automatic transmissions. To give you an idea, we see peak line pressures stock as low as a pathetically weak 96 PSI in 4R70W's. It's not because the front pump can't deliver the pressure or volume flow, it can easily do that, and do that well before the engine reaches high rpms, just to give you an idea, the front pump isn't the issue. The front pump is rarely something that needs to be modified or replaced with a heavier duty aftermarket or racing design to make these transmission shift very nicely.

3.) Shift kits can be *great* additions to certain automatic transmissions depending on exactly what the owner wants to actually change or effect, though a *very* low percentage of Superchip owners are running a shift kit, too, as the vast majority of people are very happy with what we're already doing inside the Superchip's transmission programming. And, we can always do custom programs to give extra-firm shifts as well. However shift kits successfully change certain physical chacteristics of an automaitc transmission in a well-engineered kit, they still cannot address the numerous issues going on inside the program itself, which are indeed very limiting because of the soft-shift strategies designed to appeal to women (that's the automakers thinking, not ours, and is why they use soft-shift strategies, to make them more appealing to what they think female buyers want), and this compromises friction material service life & really hurts overall driveability, and that's where *we* come in. Traditionally, shift kits are primarily designed to increase physical line pressure and fluid volume flow to certain passages, designed for each transmission's particular needs, and sometimes also give manual control over downshifts at higher speeds. There are a few specialized kits & parts that are a bit different from a "traditional" shift kit, but by and large, that's what shift kits do, is increase fluid volume flow, pressure, & routing. That's fine as far as it goes, but the Superchip can not only take care f all the numerous issues inside the powertrain program, but also increase line pressure, achieving what most people want from a shift kit without having to mechanically modify their transmission. Some people want both!

4.) There is no inherent danger to any automatic transmission from using a Superchip. In fact, just the opposite tends to happen, as the Superchip extends the service life of the friction materials thanks to the reduced amount of slippage, to say nothing of the driveability improvements made.

Heck, I'm using both a custom-oprogrammed Superchip and a Transgo shift kit in my own 4R70W, in my case, we put the shift kit in to hold off a rebuild needed. I've got a glazed 1-2 clutch pack and the way we have the shift kit & custom program calibrated, it's held off that rebuild for about 2 years now. It hasn't *fixed* that problem of course, but it's made it so there is no apparent slippage unless I really abuse the vehicle well beyond redline, so it works very well, though I still need to get that tranny out and rebuilt to withstand the blower that's going on eventually.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 05-12-2001).]

 

Mike,

Sorry for taking so long to reply to you about my question. I'm a tractor-trailer driver. You know us. Run alot. Get paid even less. Anyway. I am going to give you a call about the custom chip. That's the way I want to go. I hear alot of good things about your chips. I was thinking, if i get a chip without the future mods being done. When i do the mods, the chip would have to be reprogrammed. Correct. Sooooo, what I'm gonna do is get all my mods and order the chip at the same time. This way it's done and over with. One question though. I currently have 3.55's. I want to go to 3.73's. I figure that would diffintely wake that truck up along with the mods. What i'm asking, is that a mod that would affect the chip. Does the chip have to be programmed for those specific gears? It's gonna be alot of money being shelled out to do all this at once. What do we work for? The bills get paid and the wife is happy. And another thing. You are truly one amazing guy. I see you all over this site. You are a man on a mission. I haven't read one piece that i would disagree with. Considering I have no clue what you guys are talking about on some things.LOL. There's not alot of them I don't understand. Keep up the good work there my friend. And thanks alot.

 

Hi Ram Air,

That's very kind of you, thanks.

OK, first, since you have a 1997 truck, your vehicle still uses a traditional reduction gear to recalibrate the speedometer, that is used up thru and including the 1998 model year in the F-150, so no, we do not need to change anything in the program when you do your gear ratio change. You just need to install the correct size reduction gear, which will restore speedo & odo accuracy and automatically bring the shift points right back into line in the automatic transmission models, so you'll be all set.

However, if I may make a suggestion, I would suggest that you do a gear ratio change last, and do it *only* if you cannot get the desired perforamnce with the other modifications you're going to be doing, because you can wake these vehicles up quite a bit with a few simple bolt-ons, and most people find they don't need to do a gear ratio change.

Should you decide you do want to do a gear ratio change, I would suggest that you go to a 4.10 instead of to a 3.73, as changing from 3.55 to 3.73 is a very small change, 0.18, which is not enough to make it worth the cost (unless you can do all the labor yourself perhaps), in my opinion as a former pro drag racer; unless it's a situation where you're calibrating to turn a certain number of rpms with a given tire size, like you would on a drag car, etc.

That's just my thinking, but it's not my vehicle, it's yours, and you may very well feel very differently!

I would suggest that perhaps you might want to give us a call, and let's talk about what you really want to get out of this before you spend any money on anything, as we might be able to give you some suggestions to save money, etc. We can at the very least let you know what the most cost-effective bolt-on mods will be, and what results you'll get from them, so you can get a feel for just how much work you'll really need to do to this vehicle to get it running just like you want it. That way you can give this some real thought before doing anything, and end up with the most cost-effective results, achieving exactly what you want. You may end up deciding not to take our advice and just do whatever makes you happiest, which is perfectly fine by us of course, just letting you know that we're happy to give you some advice along those lines so you can give it some thought before bruising the bank account, if you think that would be helpful to you.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

I have a superchip and a K@N FIPK. You said that the chip needs to be custom made or something? If so how do i get is changed (or do i have to buy a new one?)I would like to know because the chip may not be helping and i want it too! thanks in advance.

-The MAN

 

Mike,

I don't feel that there is any king of fued going on. I didn't see your post before editing. What's happening I think is more that I am trying to reconcile my experiences with what you are saying and still missing some basic connection.

I do have some questions about what you said in your response.

1. You said that the front pump does not have to be "overdriven" in order to increase the line pressure. I know on basic shift kits that the increase in line pressure comes from changing the pressure regulator spring and I understand how that increases the pressure. What is the chip telling the transmission components to do to increase the pressure other than changing the duty cycle of the pump? Are there spill gates or some such that can be computer controlled? Or is it that the increase in the duty cycle of the pump is considered to be within spec and therefor not a problem?

2. The shift points are easy enough to understand: mph, rpm, throttle position, MAP, and gear selector position are all considered by the computer program to determine when various solenoids engage/release. The computer can't control how "fast" the solenoids engage/release - only "when" they change. Changes to the program will primarily change when the gears change. By changing the line pressure in conjunction with the relative timing between the solenoids that control a particular gear change, the firmness can be modified. If the shift solenoids can be "pulsed" rapidly to modulate how fast the clutches apply/release, a true computerized shift kit can be implemented. I am unaware of any mfg doing this today but it is possible. Is this something you are doing?

3. Shift kits for modern computer controlled transmissions (like the 4L60E in my wife's Camaro) typically boost the line pressure (higher than a computer "shift kit" can). They also change springs, valves, and holes in the space plate to enable gear changes to occur faster and harder (by reducing the amount of "shock absorber" function that the mechanical components (springs, valves, holes) provide). They also can provide full manual control of gear changes using the shift lever. I was told by the Hypertech folks NOT to use the shift firmness feature of their program if I already had a "real" shift kit installed - main reason was the line pressure. Changing the pressure regulator spring and leaving the duty cycle of the computer controlled line pressure solenoid alone will raise the line pressure across the board. Leaving the pressure regulator spring stock and changing the duty cycle (the right way) will raise the line pressure when ever the programer wants too. If both are used at the same time, the line pressure would be higher than either solution was designed to provide. Overall result is high line pressure (~ 20-50 psi) that will cause the ATF temp to increase measurably (about 10-20 F on my vette) and hard shifts. Risks of running with both installed (on a 4L60E) is pushing the front pump seal out of the pump (this didn't happen to me but I've heard of it happening in race applications; high line pressure was blamed as the cause). If I put a shift kit in and plan in keeping the Superchip should I plan on not installing the new pressure regulator spring or plan o having the chip reprogrammed?

Thanks,

Chuck

------------------
2001 Gen I Screw Lariat
Air Raid, Superchip

 

Hi F-150 MAN,

OK, so you have both the Superchip and that airbox elimination kit, and you want to know if you need to change the Superchip's program, to compensate for that KIPK kit, do I understand that correctly?

No, you don't need to do anything in these F-150's, F-250 Light Duty trucks and the Expeditions, that isn't an issue, so you're in good shape there.

The Superchip is already made precisely to match the exact software revision in each vehicle's computer, so it works well with most other popular bolt-on mods, things like your airbox kit, or a cat-back aftermarket exhaust system will work fine with your Superchip.

Just so give you an idea of when you need custom programming in these late-model F-150's, we need to do custom programs only if you have made mechanical modifications that affect the programming to the point that we need to compensate for them, like if you change the mass airflow meter, or port the cylinder heads, install a supercharger, do gear ratio changes on 1999 & newer trucks, etc. In other words, it's usually the major mechancial mods, for the most part. Few simple bolt-ons affect the program enough, though changing the mass airflow meter is a simple bolt-on that *will* require a custom program.

I hope that information helps,

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Hi I-MUD,

We're obviously never going to agree on much of anything, nor is it even worth wasting time discussing, at this point.

1.) We're not going to tell everyone on an Internet web site just exactly what we do or how we do it, that is highly proprietary information, and I think you already know that all too well.

2.) I don't agree with that. There is in fact a voltage signal being sent from the ECU to the shift solenoids that can indeed be altered, though that's a poor way to do it given the inherent weakness of those shift solenoids.

3.) I don't agree with that either. It's very easy to run a shift kit in conjunction with the Superchip. Depending on exactly *what* mechanical modification(s) is done to each individual transmission, that will dictate exactly what we need to do differently in any given custom program to achieve the shift characteristics desired. Obvious.

Your general comments about line pressures causing damage, etc. and in fact many of the things you've said here, I do not agree with at all. Those things you claim do *not* happen unless and until *extreme* line pressures are used in the wrong place with the wrong components, and moreover, have never happened in any vehicle of ours or our customers. Not in these Fords, and certainly not in the 4L60E or evne eth 4L80E, of which I've personally owned *many* examples of, all of which were modified, to say nothing of the many customer cars we've done.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer