SUPERCHIP & EMISSIONS TEST
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Senior Member
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From: DOT BOMB CITY!
SUPERCHIP & EMISSIONS TEST
Curious. What kind of readings are people getting with their chips?
I got a .08% CO with the SuperChip! Thats a pretty good reading!
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Rand
98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)
NEVER BUY EXXON/MOBIL! ITS A CRAPPY
PRODUCT AND THEY'RE AS SLEAZY AS CLINTON!
I got a .08% CO with the SuperChip! Thats a pretty good reading!
------------------
Rand
98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)
NEVER BUY EXXON/MOBIL! ITS A CRAPPY
PRODUCT AND THEY'RE AS SLEAZY AS CLINTON!
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Rand,
Just to give you a little background info on this, with regards to what usually happens to a vehicle's emissions with the Superchip installed, and stock, etc......
Most vehicles today are emitting emissions below the emissions standards for each model year. When the Superchip is installed, most vehicles tend to clean up a little bit more, which is just a result of the increased volumetric efficiency.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
Just to give you a little background info on this, with regards to what usually happens to a vehicle's emissions with the Superchip installed, and stock, etc......
Most vehicles today are emitting emissions below the emissions standards for each model year. When the Superchip is installed, most vehicles tend to clean up a little bit more, which is just a result of the increased volumetric efficiency.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 311
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From: California / Orange County
Woa woa woa..
so mike your telling me the superchip burning 92 octane will actually decrease vehical emissions?
Does this mean smog will be easier to pass?
------------------
97 F150 Longbed V8 4.6
K&N air filter
K&N FIPK tech MOD & removed elbow silencer
Tires: Yokohama 265/75/16 Geolander AT+
Hyper white xenon bulbs
Bedliner and raven shell
6 disc cd changer
Oil & filter used
Gasoline used
My Truck
so mike your telling me the superchip burning 92 octane will actually decrease vehical emissions?
Does this mean smog will be easier to pass?
------------------
97 F150 Longbed V8 4.6
K&N air filter
K&N FIPK tech MOD & removed elbow silencer
Tires: Yokohama 265/75/16 Geolander AT+
Hyper white xenon bulbs
Bedliner and raven shell
6 disc cd changer
Oil & filter used
Gasoline used
My Truck
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Moose-man,
No, I don't think I would say that the Superchip is a good way to get a "dirty-running" motor thru an emissions tailpipe sniff test, if that is what you mean. It simply tends to make the exhaust a little bit cleaner, it's not a "big" difference in most cases, and therefore not something you would typically install in an attempt to pass emissions in a vehicle that isn't able to pass without it. It's just a minor but nice by-product in many vehicles from the tuning process for premium gas to increase power.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 03-21-2001).]
No, I don't think I would say that the Superchip is a good way to get a "dirty-running" motor thru an emissions tailpipe sniff test, if that is what you mean. It simply tends to make the exhaust a little bit cleaner, it's not a "big" difference in most cases, and therefore not something you would typically install in an attempt to pass emissions in a vehicle that isn't able to pass without it. It's just a minor but nice by-product in many vehicles from the tuning process for premium gas to increase power.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 03-21-2001).]
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2000
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From: Houston, by way of every major city in America.
I got a .02,COOL!!
------------------
98 F-150 4.6 Litre XLT2wd Ext. cab
Yokahama AVS/ST's
prarie tan/tan int.
K/N gen.II fipk
custom dual exh/gibson rectangle tips/rear exiting.
color matched snuglid
Superchip!!!
Clear front corners
Stillen Quad light air dam,Sweet!!
Euro taillights
Cobra 75WXST cb w/weather alert
[b]Kenwood cd w/Radio Shack speakers,don't laugh it sounds pretty good
Viper alarm
On the way/wheels,tires, etc..etc.......
the monochromatic boogie is done,cool!.
Come see my new pictures@ www.my-f150.com
officialtomwaits.com
reverendhortonheat.com
WOW,what a cool site!
FENDER GUITARS ROCK!!!
------------------
98 F-150 4.6 Litre XLT2wd Ext. cab
Yokahama AVS/ST's
prarie tan/tan int.
K/N gen.II fipk
custom dual exh/gibson rectangle tips/rear exiting.
color matched snuglid
Superchip!!!
Clear front corners
Stillen Quad light air dam,Sweet!!
Euro taillights
Cobra 75WXST cb w/weather alert
[b]Kenwood cd w/Radio Shack speakers,don't laugh it sounds pretty good
Viper alarm
On the way/wheels,tires, etc..etc.......
the monochromatic boogie is done,cool!.
Come see my new pictures@ www.my-f150.com
officialtomwaits.com
reverendhortonheat.com
WOW,what a cool site!
FENDER GUITARS ROCK!!!
Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
From: Belleville, MI
Hi Mike,
You're claiming that the Superchip's programming that increases performance consequently results in an increase in volumetric efficiency?
CO is formed by the dissociation of CO2, and is directly related to the peak cylinder temperature. The lower the peak cylinder temperature (for a given load), the less dissocation of CO2 into CO. From Rand's results, I would conclude that the Superchip achieves slightly lower CO emissions due to the combination of the use of premium fuel with the fuel/spark maps in the program - resulting in lower cylinder pressures/temperatures at the condition Rand was running at. If the CO is lower, I would also expect to see a slight reduction in NOx as well.
However, an engine's volumetric efficiency shoud not be altered with software changes, but only with changes to the engine speed and intake/exhaust (with a slight dependance on load, or throttle opening).
No flame intended, as you have GREAT reputation on this board. I'm just making sure that things are clear...
Best of luck...
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VENOM 99
www.students.uiuc.edu/~cellariu
You're claiming that the Superchip's programming that increases performance consequently results in an increase in volumetric efficiency?
CO is formed by the dissociation of CO2, and is directly related to the peak cylinder temperature. The lower the peak cylinder temperature (for a given load), the less dissocation of CO2 into CO. From Rand's results, I would conclude that the Superchip achieves slightly lower CO emissions due to the combination of the use of premium fuel with the fuel/spark maps in the program - resulting in lower cylinder pressures/temperatures at the condition Rand was running at. If the CO is lower, I would also expect to see a slight reduction in NOx as well.
However, an engine's volumetric efficiency shoud not be altered with software changes, but only with changes to the engine speed and intake/exhaust (with a slight dependance on load, or throttle opening).
No flame intended, as you have GREAT reputation on this board. I'm just making sure that things are clear...
Best of luck...
------------------
VENOM 99
- Y2K F-150 SuperCab XLT 4x4
- 5.4L, 4R70W, 3.55LS ORP, Trailer Tow
- Extang BlackMax tonneau
- BedRug
- Alpine CDM-7857 CD/Receiver
- Cobra 18 WX ST Weatherband CB Radio
- envious of those with the chrome steel 5-spoke factory wheels
www.students.uiuc.edu/~cellariu
Senior Member
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help your smog to pass try this before your testThings you should know about your fuel/emissions system
1. Why do fuel systems have problems?
Fuel management systems are designed to deliver a finely atomized quantity of fuel to each cylinder to match the air intake, but since the air intake is not measured for each cylinder individually, a small amount of contamination can dramatically effect this critical balance.
2. Why does fuel efficiency decrease and emissions increase after only a few thousand miles?
Contamination buildup on the throttle plate, in the intake manifold, on the intake valves, and in the ceramic pores of the oxygen sensor, all have the effect of decreasing fuel efficiency and increasing emissions.
3. Why do catalytic converters have to be replaced?
Unburned hydrocarbons coat the platinum/palladium covered honeycomb inside the catalytic converter and prevent their reaction with oxygen. This not only renders the converter useless, from an emissions standpoint, but it increases fuel consumption and eventually causes the vehicle to stall due to backpressure on the exhaust system.
4. What causes high emissions?
There are many things that affect the emissions on today’s vehicles but assuming the vehicle is mechanically sound, contamination buildup in one or more of its support systems or altering the conductivity of a sensor will account for about 99% of all emissions problems.
5. What determines horsepower and why does it diminish as the vehicle gets older?
The amount of charge you are able to pack into the cylinders determines horsepower and in a spark ignition engine this is limited only by air. Contamination buildup that affects valve timing or air intake can have a dramatic effect on horsepower.
The Fuel/Emissions Process
[This message has been edited by fordtec2001 (edited 03-22-2001).]
1. Why do fuel systems have problems?
Fuel management systems are designed to deliver a finely atomized quantity of fuel to each cylinder to match the air intake, but since the air intake is not measured for each cylinder individually, a small amount of contamination can dramatically effect this critical balance.
2. Why does fuel efficiency decrease and emissions increase after only a few thousand miles?
Contamination buildup on the throttle plate, in the intake manifold, on the intake valves, and in the ceramic pores of the oxygen sensor, all have the effect of decreasing fuel efficiency and increasing emissions.
3. Why do catalytic converters have to be replaced?
Unburned hydrocarbons coat the platinum/palladium covered honeycomb inside the catalytic converter and prevent their reaction with oxygen. This not only renders the converter useless, from an emissions standpoint, but it increases fuel consumption and eventually causes the vehicle to stall due to backpressure on the exhaust system.
4. What causes high emissions?
There are many things that affect the emissions on today’s vehicles but assuming the vehicle is mechanically sound, contamination buildup in one or more of its support systems or altering the conductivity of a sensor will account for about 99% of all emissions problems.
5. What determines horsepower and why does it diminish as the vehicle gets older?
The amount of charge you are able to pack into the cylinders determines horsepower and in a spark ignition engine this is limited only by air. Contamination buildup that affects valve timing or air intake can have a dramatic effect on horsepower.
The Fuel/Emissions Process
[This message has been edited by fordtec2001 (edited 03-22-2001).]
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Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
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From: Virginia
Hi Venom99,
I agree with much of what you said.
It's very simple, the engine's power has been increased while the bsfc (brake specific fuel consumption) has decreased, with no increase in displacement, voila, you have the increase in volumentric efficiency. It's obvious from the BSFC numbers that drop everytime you re-tune an engine like that and test for fuel consumption on an engine dyno. Whether you actually see an increase in gas mileage in the real world is another matter, as that will depend on how the vehicle is operated and fuel quality of course, our point here is the bsfc drops from this tuning. You've got more power, less emissions & lowered bsfc, clearly showing an increase in the volumetric efficiency.
Anytime you increase power and reduce the bsfc without increasing displacement, you've got a clear improvement in volumetric efficiency, which is effectively a measure of "work for size" as we're discussing it here, basically.
And you're quite right, it's the tuning for premium gas that achieves all of this.
I wouldn't necessarily say that you're always & automatically going to get a corresponding decrease in NOx as well, though you very well may, and usually do. If heat in the combustion chamber rises, you get an increase in NOx of course.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
I agree with much of what you said.
It's very simple, the engine's power has been increased while the bsfc (brake specific fuel consumption) has decreased, with no increase in displacement, voila, you have the increase in volumentric efficiency. It's obvious from the BSFC numbers that drop everytime you re-tune an engine like that and test for fuel consumption on an engine dyno. Whether you actually see an increase in gas mileage in the real world is another matter, as that will depend on how the vehicle is operated and fuel quality of course, our point here is the bsfc drops from this tuning. You've got more power, less emissions & lowered bsfc, clearly showing an increase in the volumetric efficiency.
Anytime you increase power and reduce the bsfc without increasing displacement, you've got a clear improvement in volumetric efficiency, which is effectively a measure of "work for size" as we're discussing it here, basically.
And you're quite right, it's the tuning for premium gas that achieves all of this.
I wouldn't necessarily say that you're always & automatically going to get a corresponding decrease in NOx as well, though you very well may, and usually do. If heat in the combustion chamber rises, you get an increase in NOx of course.
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
Member
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 91
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From: Belleville, MI
Sorry Mike, but your definition of volumetric efficiency is incorrect. I think you may have been instructed incorrectly. The true definition is:
VE = (2 * measured mass air flowrate)/(air density * engine displacement * engine speed in rev/sec)
Brake specific fuel consumption is defined as:
BSFC = (mass flow rate of fuel)/(brake power)
Volumetric efficeincy is NOT affected by fuel rate, whatsoever. BSFC is a MEASURED value of an engine load/speed operating point. I would assume that the engineers you have at Superchips develop their chips to LOWER the BSFC, which occurs through the fuel/ignition map changes (they change software parameters and the effects are seen by measuring the fuel flow rate and the brake power). However, I highly doubt that all chip manufacturers can claim that they ALWAYS reduce BSFC by their software changes.
Your also claim that power and BSFC are independent, but clearly this is not true, as BSFC is inversely proportional to the brake engine power (as the definition above shows). In ALL CASES, if you reduce the fuel flow rate at a given brake torque, the BSFC WILL decrease, and result in better fuel economy at THAT PARTICLUAR load. If drivng habits stay the same, there will be a guaranteed increase in fuel economy.
As for your last statement, in EVERY case, if the cylinder temperature is reduced for a given, there will be a DECREASE in NOx and CO (so long as the combustion efficiency remains constant), which is governed by chemical equilibrium. However, if the combustion efficiency changes, there will be a corresponding change in the carbon-based compounds in the exhaust (i.e. CO, CO2, etc.)
Jeremy Cellarius
Spray and Engine Research Laboratory
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
[This message has been edited by VENOM 99 (edited 03-23-2001).]
VE = (2 * measured mass air flowrate)/(air density * engine displacement * engine speed in rev/sec)
Brake specific fuel consumption is defined as:
BSFC = (mass flow rate of fuel)/(brake power)
Volumetric efficeincy is NOT affected by fuel rate, whatsoever. BSFC is a MEASURED value of an engine load/speed operating point. I would assume that the engineers you have at Superchips develop their chips to LOWER the BSFC, which occurs through the fuel/ignition map changes (they change software parameters and the effects are seen by measuring the fuel flow rate and the brake power). However, I highly doubt that all chip manufacturers can claim that they ALWAYS reduce BSFC by their software changes.
Your also claim that power and BSFC are independent, but clearly this is not true, as BSFC is inversely proportional to the brake engine power (as the definition above shows). In ALL CASES, if you reduce the fuel flow rate at a given brake torque, the BSFC WILL decrease, and result in better fuel economy at THAT PARTICLUAR load. If drivng habits stay the same, there will be a guaranteed increase in fuel economy.
As for your last statement, in EVERY case, if the cylinder temperature is reduced for a given, there will be a DECREASE in NOx and CO (so long as the combustion efficiency remains constant), which is governed by chemical equilibrium. However, if the combustion efficiency changes, there will be a corresponding change in the carbon-based compounds in the exhaust (i.e. CO, CO2, etc.)
Jeremy Cellarius
Spray and Engine Research Laboratory
University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign
[This message has been edited by VENOM 99 (edited 03-23-2001).]
Member
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: Belleville, MI
Just one more thing...
Mike, by no means am I trying to insult you. You have quite the following here, no doubt due to your good knowledge base and customer service (I wish all salesmen could inform people of the product as well as you can). I just want to ensure that there isn't any false information being publically distributed. There's already enough of that in the "I need more low end torque, so I'll increase backpressure" threads in the Exhaust section.
If you'd like, we can discuss this more in private. You can always e-mail me at my address listed in my profile.
BTW - I think I may be giving you a call here sometime within the next month or so to see about purchasing a chip for my truck...
Best of luck!
Mike, by no means am I trying to insult you. You have quite the following here, no doubt due to your good knowledge base and customer service (I wish all salesmen could inform people of the product as well as you can). I just want to ensure that there isn't any false information being publically distributed. There's already enough of that in the "I need more low end torque, so I'll increase backpressure" threads in the Exhaust section.
If you'd like, we can discuss this more in private. You can always e-mail me at my address listed in my profile.
BTW - I think I may be giving you a call here sometime within the next month or so to see about purchasing a chip for my truck...
Best of luck!
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 311
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From: California / Orange County
The tires fit greaT!! and yes is 2wd
------------------
97 F150 Longbed V8 4.6
K&N air filter
K&N FIPK tech MOD & removed elbow silencer
Tires: Yokohama 265/75/16 Geolander AT+
Hyper white xenon bulbs
Bedliner and raven shell
6 disc cd changer
Oil & filter used
Gasoline used
My Truck
------------------
97 F150 Longbed V8 4.6
K&N air filter
K&N FIPK tech MOD & removed elbow silencer
Tires: Yokohama 265/75/16 Geolander AT+
Hyper white xenon bulbs
Bedliner and raven shell
6 disc cd changer
Oil & filter used
Gasoline used
My Truck
Former Sponsor
Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
Likes: 4
From: Virginia
Hi Venom,
You're carrying this a bit beyond what I actually said in your last post, however.............
I'd be the first to tell you that I'm not a professor of internal combustion engine theory by a long shot! We always referred to volumentric efficiency in practical terms, as being a relative term about work for displacement versus fuel consumption at a given load. That may well not be the testbook-correct method of expressing the *formula* for volumetric efficiency, I'm not trying to "define" volumetric efficiency for Webster's here, I wouldn't presume to.
And sure, if you'd like to give us a call, I'd *love* to discuss this with you. So by all means, please do call, I can always use enlightenment!
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
You're carrying this a bit beyond what I actually said in your last post, however.............
I'd be the first to tell you that I'm not a professor of internal combustion engine theory by a long shot!
We always referred to volumentric efficiency in practical terms, as being a relative term about work for displacement versus fuel consumption at a given load. That may well not be the testbook-correct method of expressing the *formula* for volumetric efficiency, I'm not trying to "define" volumetric efficiency for Webster's here, I wouldn't presume to. And sure, if you'd like to give us a call, I'd *love* to discuss this with you. So by all means, please do call, I can always use enlightenment!
------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer
