I have seen some absolute horse-puckey in the past, but this really, really takes the cake.

Over on another board www.tauruscarclub.com, they are talking about the daiblo sport chip and how it is so much better than the superchip. Now, I agree that they could possibly come up with a better program, since there are many different approaches to car tuning with respect to mixture and timing. However, I can't get over how claims are being made that the Diablo chip is actually a better physical chip.

They talk of running faster and finer clocking and better processes. People, its just a freaking eprom chip! I have never, ever come across anything that makes me think that it is anything but. As long as the eprom meets the minimum specified requirements of its intended application, it will work. If it doesn't, then it wont. No matter how far it exceeds those requirements, it will work no better in the same environment as one that just meets the specs.

The chips are simple data carriers, designed to deliver to their intended application computers an updated program, be it in the form of look-up tables, or in the form of a complete new program. Making one faster than the other is completely useless. The computer itself runs at a factory set speed, it can take in data no faster, it can process it no faster, and it can deliver it no faster, no matter what you stick in its rom socket. You would have to replace the complete computer for that. It samples the engine sensors at a pre-specified rate with a pre-specified accuracy. Can this be changed by the physical characteristics of the inserted chip? No. Can this be changed by that chip's programming? Maybe, but I haven't seen any evidence of this.

In my 5 years of Computer Engineering experience, I have seen lots of really cool technology come down the pike, but, I've never seen an EPROM that exceeds (responds quicker than specified) ever make a program faster when it is in a synchronous clocked environment. The computer will continue at it normally clocked speed. Heck, I could make an EPROM with a .09 micron process, with carbon nano-tube heat pipes, with copper SOI technology capable of being clocked at 10 gigahertz and it still won't make a 486 clocked at 33 mhz any faster then a run of the mill EPROM that can keep up with the 33mhz speed of the 486.

There, I've said my peace. Flame away, say I'm full of it, call me a liar. That's my POV, and I'm sticking to it until someone can prove me wrong.

Any comments Mike?

 

There is a guy on the Lightning board who has the Diablo chip. He was having all kinds of problems.

 

Nola & Don

I got a diablo in my screw and have liked it very much. I would have got a SC, but they were 6 weeks out beacause of a new computer code. A buddy of mine has a 2000 150 Scab with a SC and we are the same speed all the way to 100 mph.
Just my 2 cents

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2001 SuperCrew, 4.6, 3.55LS leer shell w/ rack, complete tow and off road pkg. K&N, catback,

 

Its good to hear that people are getting good results from these Diablo Chips. I like competition in almost any form. It keeps the individual companies honest, both in price and in quality. I have heard of one advantage that has really turned my head about the diablo chip. As far as I have heard, if you do modifications to your engine, they will reburn the chip for you for free (well, you need to pay shipping.) Since it takes less than 5 minutes of actual labor to actualy reburn an EPROM, this makes lots of business sense to me. You pay for the labor, they pop the chip into the burner, call up the code for your application, and away we go. Granted, there is a development cost that they will ikely eat at first, but, since their chips almost universally cost a little more, they make up for it there. So, you pay up front, but you make it up later.

Granted, I have nothing against superchips, Mike, or anybody who may support this product, I must say that I like the competition.

I also like the head to head comparison.

 

Thanks Mike. I was over there mainly to see what they had to say about the duratec V6 in the taurus. It really sucks that Ford canibalized the power on the taurus with a really restrictive exhaust on the latest generation of tauri. Glad to see they opened it back up a bit for the escape/tribute application.
Anyway, I came across their diablo sports evangelist and he was just talking cr*p out of both ends and it was just erking me to see it. I have lots of experience with both computers, and digitally controlled analog control system environments (for the laymen, special purpose computers controling combustion engines and other real world processes). In fact, my graduation thesis for my computer engineering degree was to use a computer to control the timing, mixture and other external controls of a glorified lawnmower engine. Granted, its a smaller application, but, the principles are the same.
It just seemed to me that claims were being made that boardered almost on false and misleading advertisement.
Is it true what they say, that Diablo hired away Superchips' most senior tech to do their programming for them?

 

Mike,
Do you have evidence that Diablo chips have blown up motors or is this just a ploy to downgrade another company? I must admit that I'm an avid user of many different forums and I have never heard any Diablo user make such a claim. Sure you might come across someone who isn't satisfied with the chip for their particular vehicle, but all chip manufacturers experience this. No one makes a perfect product with a 0% return rate. I'm sure you'll agree with that.

Personally, I don't think just because the guys over at the other site may be young that it makes them a whole lot less credible. Besides, it's usually the "young guys" who come up with good new ideas that makes existing products better or creates a whole new way of looking at things. It's actually the "old guys" that are set in their ways and don't want to change things. I also think competition is good for everyone, especially the end users.

 

Right on fast.........Ya know what competition means? Better prices & possible free upgrades...Mark...aka sundayniagara@hotmail.com

 

Hi NOLA,

Don't let the guys over at TCCA get to you, they're almost all very young guys who know very little about vehicles, but I think they mean well for the most part.

They used to come to us saying things like they were going to install 30# injectors on their basically stock 150-hp V-6 Taurus, etc., that gives you some idea as to the level of "expertise" over there. They're mostly young kids just beginning their learning process about their vehicles, and some of the things they'll come up with are hilarious.

I couldn't agree with you more with regards to eprom speed vs. a "clocked" environment operational speed changes. Superchips uses industrial-grade eeproms, as this is an automotive application that sees much wider temperature ranges than what your average PC will ever see, and must function properly in a harsher environment. So you use the components that are required by the environment, plain and simple.

I also agree with you that competition raises the bar, and of course there are a number of people who are happy with their Diablo chips. Diablo has been making chips for only a very short time, and has nowhere hear the engineering core competence that Superchips has. When they first launched, they tried to make a name for themselves by pushing the newest Powerstroke diesels to higher power levels than we were, and promptly started blowing up engines, and so had to back off. There is only so much power that can be added *safely* via powertrain programming before you start exceeding the design limitations somewhere and start seeing failures. We've had a chance to drive a couple of vehicles with that chip, a 5.4 F-150 was one and a Powerstroke diesel was another, and it's overall driveability doesn't compare to the Superchip, thanks to the extremely thorough part-throttle tuning that the Superchip does. I also like the transmission tuning of the Superchip better, it's more refined and responsive, the Superchip is simply a better overall program, and it shows.

I say let the guys over at the Taurus club have their fun, and talk about the crazy things they talk about, it's a simple matter of a lot of them being 18 and 19 years old, their "President" just turned 21, if memory serves. It's young guys getting together and doing their very first learning about automobiles, so quite naturally they don't have the experience and maturity that we generally see here on F-150 Online, and that's OK, it's their site and they are enjoying it.

Don't let them get to you, NOLA, we were all young once, and I can tell you that in my younger days, I said and tried many dumber things than what they talk about sometimes.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 01-25-2001).]

 

fastsvtss
I agree with everything you said 100%

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97 F150 Longbed V8 4.6
K&N air filter
K&N FIPK tech MOD & removed elbow silencer
Hyper white xenon bulbs
Bedliner and raven shell
6 disc cd changer
Oil & filter used

Gasoline used

Mr.T'z van

 

Hi NOLA,

NO, it is not true that they "hired away" most or even any of Superchips senior staff, they have one former lower-level technician that used to work at Superchips, that's it. This is just one of many rumors we've heard. I know most of the people at Superchips personally, and I know exactly who left to go to the other company. Superchips didn't lose anyone of importance on their staff.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Hi fastsvtss,

No, it's no ploy, anyone who knows anything about me or our company knows we don't do that. This is a well known fact throughout the aftermarket programming industry, if you question it give Superchips a call directly, they'll be happy to tell you about it. They simply tried to push the newest Powerstrokes to power levels that could not safely be maintained, higher than in our highest power level for those engines, which is called our "Extreme" program (+100 hp & 190-200 lbs.ft/) and thus hurt parts & broke a couple of engines. Call it "destructive testing" for lack of a better term. That is *not* to say that if anyone installs one, they're going to have engine damage, so please don't infer that, either, we're not saying that at all! If it makes you feel any better, awhile back we did some "destructive testing" on a 94 Corvette of mine, at my urging and cajoling I have to say in all fairness, and we pushed it too far and blew the front pump bushings in my 4L60-E tranny, which are notorious for that anyway even when not pushed, those trannys had a history of failing in the 94 & 95 model year LT1's before GM made a change to increase durability of the 4L60E behind the LT1. I had a set of new ported heads on, and wanted to find the best WOT upshift point for best acceleration, which was at least 800-1000 rpm higher than stock, but did that with a stock tranny that hadn't been prepped for those higher rpms, I knew I was taking chances, and paid the price! So I've personally done that myself, too.

And let's not get carried away, I'm not knocking all "young guys", not by any means, nor am I trying to knock the fellows over at TCCA! If you'll go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I quite clearly pointed out that I too, in my younger days tried and talked about a lot dumber things than they have over there from time to time. Nobody's trying to "slam" them, I just happen to know a number of them, and have been dealing with them for quite a while now, and know a lot of the things they've run by me. My response to NOLA was just to try and him know that we've seen a lot of that too from them, and not to let it get to him, it's just a natural occurance that happens to a lot of us, myself included, when you're first trying to learn about automobiles, things to make them go faster, etc. I'm sure if most of us will examine our memories, we've all said and done things that at a later date, when time has passed and/or we've learned more, now sound a bit dumb. It's all part of the "human condition", and that's what I was really attempting to relay to NOLA, so let's not twist this all out of proportion and get all wound up over nothing. We wish the fellows over at TCCA all the best!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 01-26-2001).]

 

Mike,
I'm glad you suggested that I call around to verify your information. Some of the companies that I called include Hypertech, Superchips, JET, DiabloSport, ADS, The Turbo Shop, Hypermax, Fast Chip and Bully Dog (there were other, but you get the picture). However, what I learned doesn't quite agree with what you're saying. Apparently it's not a well known fact among the aftermarket programming industry that DiabloSport is blowing up vehicles. After calling around this past Friday I couldn't find anyone (not one) to back up your information. Did you experience this first hand or is this just a rumor going around? What evidence do you have that supports this? Who told you about it? If there really were problems was it just on their test vehicles or on vehicles with a finished product?
Also, after calling around this past Friday its my understanding that the person who left Superchips was far from being a low level technician. Apparently he's been involved in this type of programming for over 14 years. That's about 5 years longer than anyone else who currently works at Superchips.

 

fastsvtss.. do you really think a company...any company, just sits around waiting for anyone or anybody to call so they can fill you with information? not to mention that you are not even a customer who has not spent a dime with them? if you had a company that had a problem with a product would you discuse it with just anybody that called?
are you saying it is not possible to raise shift points, pump up the boost, and lean out the mixture will not damage an engine?
why dont you call all of your new found freinds at all the chip companys and have the join in on this newsboard since they have plenty of free time to give you free advise. who much time and money did you spend on long distance or did they have toll free information numbers? if they are toll free why dont you list them so everyone else can call and chat with them.

 

Uh-oh
Here goes another Dan thread.

 

Nola Ford guy: this past fall I was at a Diesel rally. Most of the chipped trucks were either Superchips, Western Diesel or Diablo. The one thing I did notice was that all the trucks w/the diablo chips smoked when taking off. The guys that kept that chip all liked them though. You see, there was vendors selling these chips and you could test them out and either buy them or not. A few guys didn't like all that smoke and went with either the WD or SC. From what I could tell, any of these chips were doing about the same thing to the engine. It's the finer points of the chip programing that makes any difference. The guys w/the Diablo chip seemed to get their truck moving faster but they must have been dumping a lot of fuel to do it and cause all that smoke.

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2k F250 CC SWB 6 speed 4x2 Diesel XLT Super Duty, Woodland Green
Power Mirrors, 3.73 LS, Captains Chairs, ARE tonneau top, rear privacy glass
TT Pkg, Class IV hitch, sliding rear window, running boards, mud flaps
265/75/16 AS OWL tires, am/fm/cassette/cd, rechargable MagLite
Clarion APA 5240 amp, Memphis speakers:Components front, 5x7 rear, 10"sub
SuperChip, Stepshields, Ventshields on windows, rubber bed mat
rugged liner bedliner on tailgate, quick disconnect jumper cables
unaFORDable (decal on tailgate) Western Diesel Turbo Brake (whoa boy)
Finally gauges!!: Pyrometer & Boost on the A-Pillar mount