Getting new engine because of piston slap, and would like to know if I should put on some headers while the engine is out? Will it benefit the superchip? Or will I be waisting my time and money? Will I be waisting low end torque?


Also, Merry X-mas to all.
------------------
99 Expedition XLT
5.4L
4X4
3.73LS
17"AT/S
Airaid Intake
Superchip
Custom Edlebrock shocks
Dynomax Super Turbo 3"
Helwig Sway Arm
Polk speakers




[This message has been edited by hdlouie (edited 12-24-2000).]

 

HI!... HDLOUIE : HEADERS is definately one of the biggest H.P per mods that you can do. The JBA headers will give you 17H.P increase at the flywheel. You will gain about 15 - 20FT/LBS of torque also. You WON'T loose any low end torque, but you will actually gain it. Also you can have your SUPERCHIP re-programed with a custom program just for the headers. This program will yeild you another 5H.P. I would suggest that you install the headers after you install your new engine. The headers once installed kind of stick out to the sides and I would think it would be difficult to drop the engine back in between the frame rails with them on. The header installation is not hard at all. I removed the old exhaust manifolds and installed my headers in about 2 hours. Hope this helps you out.

------------------
NEAL " THE H.P FREAK"
'99' F-150 XLT SPORT, oxford white, reg cab shortbox stepside,5.4, auto, 4.10L.S, captain's chairs, bedliner, GTS carbon fiber headlight covers, ***** CEPECK clear halogen driving lights, GTS slotted tailight covers (painted oxford white), fiberglass smooth wiper cowl (painted OXFORD WHITE), FORD locking lug nuts, tinted windows,true duel exhaust with 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipes and FLOWMASTER 3 chamber mufflers with 3' tailpipes exiting before the rear wheel like the LIGHTNING, HELLWIG rear stabalizer bar, 3 AUTOMETER guage pods, filled with tranny temp, engine temp, and oil preasure AUTOMETER "PHANTOM" guages,custom fabricated air intake trac and huge K/N filter, TPS mod, BELLTECH 2-inch rear drop, custom programed SUPERCHIP, BAUMANN ENGINEERING shift kit (on stage 5 setting)BYPASS CLUTCH CONTROL VALVE/PREASURE REGULATOR VALVE, ASP POWER PULLEYS, custom tig welded and ported JBA "JET BLACK coated headers, twin DERALE 16 INCH ELECTRIC FANS, PERMA COOL 14"/10" tranny cooler with 10" electric fan, custom ported (STOCK) throttle body, custom digital air intake temp sensor, custom ported TB intake elbow, relocated ATS.


FUTURE MODS : FORD SVT 24LB INJECTORS, CUSTOM SUPERCHIP FLIP-CHIP, BBK 75MM THROTTLE BODY, 80MM PRO-M MASS AIR METER, AADI F1 RAM AIR HOOD WITH CUSTOM FABRICATED RAM AIR SET-UP, CAL-TRAC TRACTION BARS, EXTRUDE HONED INTAKE MANIFOLD, SHM CUSTOM FUEL RAILS, SHM "RACE WATER PUMP, 90/10 FRONT CE SHOCKS, 70/30 REAR CE SHOCKS, BELL TECH 2/4 DROP, EXPEDITION CENTER CONSOLE, HARLEY DAVISON F-150, LOWER FRONT VALANCE (painted oxford white) and a KENNE BELL BLOWZILLA SUPERCHARGER.

ESTIMATED H.P TO DATE : 330H.P / 425ft/lbs of torque.

CURRENT PERFORMANCE : 1/4 MILE - 14.53E.T * MPH - 93.00 * 0-60MPH - 5.8 * 1/8 MILE - 9.2 * 60 FT - 2.0

OTHER TOYS : "83" PRO STREET FORD RANGER : 351-w stroked to 408c.i 625H.P (natural), 875H.P with 250H.P "BIG SHOT" N.O.S kit, tubbed (crome moly tubing), 12 point chrome moly roll cage, 4-link with coil overs, MUSTANG II front suspension, c-4 tranny (race prepped), 4000rpm stall converter(8 INCH), 3" chrome moly driveshaft,AUTOMETER guages, 15.50 MICKEY THOMPSON rear tires, 4" M/T front tires, CENTERLINE CON-VO PRO rims, fiberglass hood - bumper - prostock hood scoop, wishbone trac-link, two chrome moly driveshaft loops, 16 gallon RCI fuel cell,etc




[This message has been edited by Neal (edited 12-24-2000).]

 

Thanks Neal, I was just thinking that before the engine drops in because I have a four wheel drive vehicle and thought it would be easier. I will ask anyway to see if the mechanic will do it. By the way how much am I looking at for the JBA headers and do I expect more noise from them. I do have the airaid that already makes some good noise up thier.

Thanks again for the info.

------------------
99 Expedition XLT
5.4L
4X4
3.73LS
17"AT/S
Airaid Intake
Superchip
Custom Edlebrock shocks
Dynomax Super Turbo 3"
Helwig Sway Arm
Polk speakers

 

HI!... HDLOUIE : I bought my JBA headers from ROGER LEMERE at the F-150 ONLINE STORE. They are $459.95(U.S) for the plain uncoated ones and an aditional $129.95(U.S) for the SILVER ceramic coating and $179.95(U.S) for the "JETBLACK" coating. I got the "JETBLACK" coating on mine but had to have it re-done again here in WINDSOR because of all the modifications that I had done to them. After installation I did notice that the exhaust note was a bit deeper but hardly noticable.

 

Hey Neal what is the size of your flowmaster mufflers? I had dual chamber installed on mine, but it looks so small so I was just concerned whether I got the right thing and not scammed. Thanks and nice truck!!!

------------------
1999 F-150 Lariat SC 2 WD, White/Silver, 5.4L, 3.55LS, K & N FIPK, Superchip, underdrive pulley set, Dynomax Super Turbo Series Exhaust, six disc CD changer, towing package and captain chairs

 

HI!... MIKEY88 : I have two, 3 chamber FLOWMASTERS on my truck. If you go 2 chambers on a DUEL set-up you will loose low-end torque because of not enough back preasure. If you have only single exhaust with a 2 chamber then you should be O.K. MIKE my FLOWMASTER mufflers are "RACE" style mufflers, not those "DELTA" series ones. This is the same style that I have on my POWER RANGER.

------------------
NEAL " THE H.P FREAK"
'99' F-150 XLT SPORT, oxford white, reg cab shortbox stepside,5.4, auto, 4.10L.S, captain's chairs, bedliner, GTS carbon fiber headlight covers, ***** CEPECK clear halogen driving lights, GTS slotted tailight covers (painted oxford white), fiberglass smooth wiper cowl (painted OXFORD WHITE), FORD locking lug nuts, tinted windows,true duel exhaust with 2.5 inch mandrel bent pipes and FLOWMASTER 3 chamber mufflers with 3' tailpipes exiting before the rear wheel like the LIGHTNING, HELLWIG rear stabalizer bar, 3 AUTOMETER guage pods, filled with tranny temp, engine temp, and oil preasure AUTOMETER "PHANTOM" guages,custom fabricated air intake trac and huge K/N filter, TPS mod, BELLTECH 2-inch rear drop, custom programed SUPERCHIP, BAUMANN ENGINEERING shift kit (on stage 5 setting)BYPASS CLUTCH CONTROL VALVE/PREASURE REGULATOR VALVE, ASP POWER PULLEYS, custom tig welded and ported JBA "JET BLACK coated headers, twin DERALE 16 INCH ELECTRIC FANS, PERMA COOL 14"/10" tranny cooler with 10" electric fan, custom ported (STOCK) throttle body, custom digital air intake temp sensor, custom ported TB intake elbow, relocated ATS.


FUTURE MODS : FORD SVT 24LB INJECTORS, CUSTOM SUPERCHIP FLIP-CHIP, BBK 75MM THROTTLE BODY, 80MM PRO-M MASS AIR METER, AADI F1 RAM AIR HOOD WITH CUSTOM FABRICATED RAM AIR SET-UP, CAL-TRAC TRACTION BARS, EXTRUDE HONED INTAKE MANIFOLD, SHM CUSTOM FUEL RAILS, SHM "RACE WATER PUMP, 90/10 FRONT CE SHOCKS, 70/30 REAR CE SHOCKS, BELL TECH 2/4 DROP, EXPEDITION CENTER CONSOLE, HARLEY DAVISON F-150, LOWER FRONT VALANCE (painted oxford white) and a KENNE BELL BLOWZILLA SUPERCHARGER.

ESTIMATED H.P TO DATE : 330H.P / 425ft/lbs of torque.

CURRENT PERFORMANCE : 1/4 MILE - 14.53E.T * MPH - 93.00 * 0-60MPH - 5.8 * 1/8 MILE - 9.2 * 60 FT - 2.0

OTHER TOYS : "83" PRO STREET FORD RANGER : 351-w stroked to 408c.i 625H.P (natural), 875H.P with 250H.P "BIG SHOT" N.O.S kit, tubbed (crome moly tubing), 12 point chrome moly roll cage, 4-link with coil overs, MUSTANG II front suspension, c-4 tranny (race prepped), 4000rpm stall converter(8 INCH), 3" chrome moly driveshaft,AUTOMETER guages, 15.50 MICKEY THOMPSON rear tires, 4" M/T front tires, CENTERLINE CON-VO PRO rims, fiberglass hood - bumper - prostock hood scoop, wishbone trac-link, two chrome moly driveshaft loops, 16 gallon RCI fuel cell,etc

 

Hi hdlouie,

Nice to see you here again & Merry Christmas to you too!

Yes, we like headers on these engines, and as Neal mentioned, we're seeing about 17 hp from the JBA's on these 5.4 motors, and about 14 hp on the 4.6 motors. Since you've already done all the other top bang-for-the-buck stuff, headers would be a logical next step to take for more horsepower.

You probably already know this, but just in case, make sure you have your headers Jet-Hot coated, it's well worth the small additional cost, and if you can get them, locking header bolts too, so you don't have to go back and re-torque numerous times, which is common with standard headers bolts due to the amount of heating & cooling and resultant expansion & contraction. It's no big deal, just nice if you can find them.

Good luck & let us know how you like them if you take the plunge for headers. Also, good luck with your engine replacement, of course!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Mike thanks for the response. I'm going to think about this real hard. If I get it off the store, I can get a discount before the end of the year and free shipping. Decisions, Decisions.

 

Headers make a VERY BIG difference. I installed some on my 95 Z28 and WOW! The headers put a bigger smile on my face than the 3.73 gears.... Why? Because of the HP increase and the VERY nice exhaust note. Not loud, but more deep.

I dont know if they make one or not, but a Y-pipe might be a good idea as well!

 

I have two single chamber FLOWMASTERS turn down in front if the axle. Should i change them for more back preasure? I had two chambers on but i changed them out.

should it make a difference if i put headers with single chamber FLOWMASTERS?

I think my truck runs great with the single chambers.

Can i have a superchip programed for this matter? "hope to get some info soon"

 

Great thread guys.

I was really considering a set of JBA headers until I read a thread a while back that implied that they really didn’t do much for our trucks unless they were blown. However, the numbers I’m seeing here really have my attention. Especially the extra 5 hp Neal talks about by reprogramming the Superchip. Now here’s my question, since I am more interested in torque than horsepower. Are they worth it? And what kind of hp & torque figures can I expect by adding headers to the mods that I already have?

This is a little off the topic but one other mod I have considered is a supercharger but I don’t know enough about how much it would help my truck in the pulling department. On the diesel web site they are always arguing over which is better, the PSD or the V-10. The V-10 guys are always saying what a blower would do for a V-10 but I’ve never seen any actual numbers or read anything about how it affected the way the truck pulls.

Thanks in advance for any information y’all can provide.


------------------
1999 F-250 LD 4x4 Lariat Supercab, 5.4 w/3.73 LS Limited Slip, Wedgewood Blue & Silver.
K&N FIPK
Flowmaster
with duel stainless
tips in front of the
rear tire
Superchip
Line-x
Mobil One

 

Hi Vacherie Boys F150,

No, there is nothing to change in the program for simply exhaust system changes, that isn't a mechanical engine modification.

Between the mass airflow meter and the O2 sensors, the factory system does a good job of compensating for incremental increases in airflow, so things like K&N air filters, airbox elimination kits, cat-back exhausts, etc. need no changes to the programming.

If you install headers, we can do a custom program that will add a few more horsepower to the gain from the headers, but even that is usually not *requried*, it's optional in these F-150's.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Hi Rand,

Just to give you a little feedback,headers don't make the same difference on all vehicles, or even on all V-8's. They do make more of a difference on that LT1 F-body than they will on an F-150, I can tell you from personal experience having owned a number of LT1's, but they're certainly worthwhile on any engine, I agree! I'm a big fan of headers.

We usually used the Doug Rippie stainless steel headers for our LT1's, though nowadays everyone is making headers for the LT1's. Another brand that worked very well on the LT1 F-bodies are the Edelbrock headers, very nice results and good quality for their cost. What kind of headers did you use on the Z-28? Did you use locking header bolts, etc.?

On these F-150's, a good set of headers like JBA's for example will usually add about 14 hp on the 4.6 motor, and about 17 hp on the 5.4 motors, so they're decent horsepower producers. However, they don't product a lot of torque, you'd be lucky to match the horsepower gain with the same amount of torque increase usually, as like any breathing mod, they work best when the engine is working hard. They'll also work better on motors that make more power stock, and those that have better breathing cylinder heads, and those with the most restrictive stock exhaust manifolds, though you probably already know all that I'm guessing.

The F-body LT1's have more restrictive factory exhaust manifolds as compared to the same model year Corvettes, so the F-bodies tended to pick up a few more ponies from the same headers compared to the Corvettes & their 4-bolt main all-aluminum LT1's, in our experience, so I'm not surprised that you got nice results from your headers on that LT1, I'm sure that helped it breathe, especially once you hit 3500 rpm and up. That was the one area that I was jealous about being a Corvette owner, was the fact that you guys got more of a power gain from headers on the F-body LT1's than we did on the LT1 Corvettes.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

[This message has been edited by Superchips_Distributor (edited 12-28-2000).]

 

Hi Conocoan,

Yes, it is a good thread!

I don't think headers are in any way a waste of money on these trucks. In my post to Rand, I was discussing the fact that in our experience, those F-body LT1's like his Camaro got more benefit than these Triton motors do, but it's not a *big* difference, that's just a comment, due to how much harder the LT1 breathes in comparison to the Triton V-8's (more power & a bit higher rpm range), as of couse the LT1 is a performance engine, and it's restrictive exhaust manifolds in the F-bodies in particular.

A set of Jet-Hot coated JBA's will add about 17 more *peak* horsepower on your 5.4 motor, and for torque, about another 15 lbs./ft., so I think they are definitely worthwhile. In terms of the exact gains you'll get in addition to the mods you already have, I think you can basically expect about the same gains and perhaps a little bit more, but it won't be any less.

As far as the V-10 or the PSD being better for towing, hands down it's the PSD, it's a torque-producing *monster*, with a torque peak of 500 lbs./ft. at only 1800 rpm! Personally, I'd love to have a supercharged V-10, but if I was buying a new truck for towing heavy loads (above 6000 lbs. or so), it would be the Powerstroke diesel, and they are so easy to add *big* power gains to as well, much easier than the V-10, as of course the Powerstroke diesel is a turbocharged engine.

With regards to adding a supercharger, yes, it's expensive, and yes, it will do wonders for your towing ability if you use a Roots-type, or positive displacement blower. There are 2 basic types of superchargers, the less expensive ($2000-$2500) are your centrifugal blowers like the Powerdyne, which works well but produces little boost below 2500 rpm, so I don't like them for towing, but for anything else they're great.

Then you have the Roots-type, referred to as positive displacement or twin-screw blowers, and my favorite for these trucks is the Magnacharger, which is of course based on the Eaton brand supercharger, the same supercharger manufacturer that Ford themselves uses for the Super Coupe and the Lightning, and that GM uses on all their supercharged Buicks & Pontiacs. This kit will run about $3500 or so, but for towing, it's the only way to go, as Roots-type blowers make boost *instantly*, as soon as you press thw gas pedal. How this helps towing is thw fact that even at low rpms, like say cruising at 65 mph in Overdrive wher you're turning maybe 1500-1700 rpm, you've still got boost the instant you touch the gas pedal.

A supercharger is a big expenditure, so you'll want to give that some thought of course, but the headers will work nice now, and even better should you ever decide to go with a blower.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System
First National F-150 Online Rally Event Organizer

 

Mike T: Good point! Headers do work VERY wel on some engines and just mediocre on others.

I personally used the Edelbrock Jet coated with a larger Y-pipe, gutted cats (I didnt say that did I?), and a single out flowmaster 3 stage. The set-up worked out well with all the other intake mods.

Mike: You may already have done so, but go and visit LS1.com.... These guys are pulling 12's on basically stock Z28's these days. Maybe $1000 in mods.... There's a guy in Alexandria VA who put $1300 into a 99/00 Z28 (headers, exhaust, slicks) and shaved some weight from it (200 lbs or so) and pulled an 11.9 in the 1/4... He has a web site with probably the BEST kill story I've ever read. He took money from 2 guys. One ran nitrous! (both Z's)

I've driven the LS1's and they are sooooo damn different than the LT1's. liked the feel of the LT1 better, BUT the LS1's produce more HP and the torque comes in at higher RPMs... Thus less spin! VERY VERY VERY fast car. Even the automatics are very fast. I think the Alex VA guy is a auto SS.

------------------
Rand

98 Ford Expedition 4X4 XLT
5.4, 3.73s, 17" wheels,
Homemade 3" "COLD" Air-Box
mod, SuperChip, Amsoil
everywhere but tranny, Perma-
Cool combo 6 pass trans/oil
cooler (FQR 5.4 @ 50K)



[This message has been edited by Rand (edited 12-29-2000).]