Hi Mike!
Well, I finally got my truck on the 1st
Very Happy with it. My computer code is:*UAT3*. Is it necessary to drive it a few hundred miles before I install the chip? Or is it OK to put it in right away? I'm sure you have answered this question before, but I can't remember, sorry.

Could you please tell me your business hours, so I can contact you in person to order my Superchip?
Thanks,
Tobe

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2000 F-150 XLT 4X4 SuperCab Flareside, Black
5.4L,3.55 LS,Off Road Pkg.,ClassIII Tow, CD player,
Captain's Chairs, Keyless Remote, Rear Slider,
Shift-On-The-Fly,Ford Bedliner.
Mods: Westin tube steps, Prime Design Bug Guard.
Future Mods: SuperChip, K&N FIPK, Cat-back, Hard Tonno Cover.

 

I'm interested in understanding the Superchip's performance gains -- and looked at the advertisement -- but don't understand what is being represented by the two graphs at: https://www.f150online.com/scpp/graph1.jpg

Both graphs appear to be for 4.6L engines -- and both appear to be identical (!?!).

In addition, the only real HP gains appear to be during the part of the graph labeled "Stock Shift Area", where the difference between "stock" and "Superchip" HP at 75 MPH is around 35 HP gain for the Superchip -- implying that the "Stock Shift Area" takes place over the period from 75 thru 80 MPH, during which time the Stock program apparently de-tunes the engine -- whereas the Superchip does not.

What is taking place during the period between 80 thru 85 MPH to account for the peak horsepower surge? Is this is merely a reflection of the flywheel effect while the transmission completes the shift and the resultant torque peak?

The graphs show over 100 HP for the Superchip at around 33 MPH, while the Stock HP shows nothing until 35 MPH -- which is a clever misrepresentation and can mislead those not familiar with reading charts into thinking that there is a significant spread in HP -- where it merely reflects that the test began 3 or 4 MPH Earlier for the Superchip than for the Stock program.

I sure hope that the HP gains for the Superchip are not limited to the period of the Stock Shift Area between 75 and 80 MPH and/or the inertia peak during the completion of a shift at 82 MPH.

Mike, can you explain?



------------------
Y2K™

Toreador Red, Keyless XLT SC SB 5.4L E4x4 4wDisc/ABS, 3.73LS, Skid, HD 7700# Towing, LT-245's on Chrome, Tube-Steps, Captain's, 6CD, Tonneau, named: "Nick"

 

MGD1: I think you can put the chip on at any time you like BUT I waited until I had about 500 miles on my new truck to chip it. Reason being that I wanted to drive it a while to make sure there wasn't any "problems" w/the truck from the factory that need to be fixed first. I did have a starter soilnoid (spelling???) go out right when I got the truck. So if anything else was gonna go bad on the truck, I wanted it all over and done w/before I added the chip. I've now got 7k miles on this truck and it runs better and better every day.

Y2K: I'm a drafter and I still don't get those grafts!!! But what I do understand about the Superchips chip is that you get all the bennies from it at ALL times and not just between those high speeds.

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2k F250 CC SWB 4x2 6 speed Diesel XLT Super Duty, Woodland Green
Power Mirrors, 3.73 LS, Captains Chairs, ARE tonneau top, rear privacy glass
TT Pkg, Class IV hitch, sliding rear window, running boards, mud flaps
265/75/16 AS OWL tires, am/fm/cassette/cd, rechargable MagLite
Clarion APA 5240 amp, Memphis speakers:Components front, 5x7 rear, 10"sub
SuperChip, Stepshields, Ventshields on windows, rubber bed mat
rugged liner bedliner on tailgate, quick disconnect jumper cables
unaFORDable (decal on tailgate)

 

Y2K, If you are asking for Mike to be specific about what they do as far as tuning in terms of code, specifics in what they change, I doubt you will get the answer you want. I am reasonably sure this is proprietary information as far the company is concerned and not for release to the public. As far as the graph is concerned there should be the big jump at shift as the Superchip removes the after shift retard in timing of the stock program. It night be easier to read if the bottom line was rpms instead mph but overall it looks just about what I would expect after installing one. Small gains across the board and the peaks in the after shift and peak hp areas. You seem to be a person who wants all the hard facts they can get, which is a good thing, but being in manufacturing as you are, you must know there are some things that you just can't find out. When I went to work at my present job I signed a release stating I would not divulge company secerts or formulations, and that upon my quitting or retiring I would do the same. I am sure Mike's company has a similar policy and I would not expect any disscussions on specifics from him.

[This message has been edited by ps398 (edited 06-05-2000).]

 

Y2K - I'm by no means an automotive engineer and have never personally watched a dyno test being performed. But I have learned, by burying my head in truck magazines, that dyno test results don't start until second gear. Perhaps that's why there are no below 33mph figures?

Regardless of the chart - my calibrated 'Buttometer' sends signals that increases my smiles-per-gallon....

Tom in Tacoma

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1998 F150 XLT S/C 4.6L Auto, 3.55LS, 4X2, Moonlight Blue, all the factory bells & whistles except for leather seats.

• Lund Deflector
• Lund Premier Tonneau Cover
• K&N Filter
• Body-color painted Throttle Cover
• Blue wire-looms
• Pentaliner S/R
• Window tint
• Ford side-steps
• Infiniti component speakers - front
• Polk Audio speakers - back
• Superchip (OH YEAH!!)
• Flowmaster 50 Series 'Delta-Flow' w/ 3" pipe
• Clear turn signal lenses
  
• Next up - billet grill.

Tom in Tacoma

(Washington not Toyota)
Go check out http://communities.msn.com/SS97FordsPics for the second best website for F150's

 

Hi MGD1,

Congratulations on your new truck arriving!

Here at Performance we rarely even get off the dealer's lot with our new vehicles before they start wearing their Superchips, but that is of course becasue of who we are and what we do.

I think it's a good idea to get a few hundred miles on it first, just to make sure there are no glaring obvious problems with your new vehicle that need to be fixed before reliable operation can be established. That is very rare these days, but getting a few hundred miles on them never hurts before you start adding your mods.

We are here Monday thru Friday 10 am to 7 pm, Eastern time.

Congrats again on your new truck arriving, that was pretty quick! THE WAIT IS OVER!

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System

 

Y2K,

Hang on, nobody is trying to misrepresent anything, so let's not get new rumors started here.

This has been discussed many times before here, so don't feel like you're the only one, by any means. It's been awhile since we've discussed these graphs, so perhaps it's a good time to point some things out again about them.

First, they are REAR WHEEL graphs, first and foremost, and that has to be realized, so there is going to be a significant difference between rear-wheel power output and the rated gains, which are published at the flywheel, at the specific request of the public. For a number of years, everyone wanted rear-wheel figures, and that's what most of us in the aftermarket obliged with. Then in the 90's, most people wanted to have a number they could use to compare to their stock SAE Net flywheel figure, hence, the rated gains are published at the flywheel, to people can compare apples to apples, etc.

The power gains start right at about 1200 rpm, and clearly remain throughout the power band. It is the rather small scale of those graphs, combined with the fact that they are rear-wheel, in miles-per-hour, and the large gains during the upshifts (which you'll notice we do *not* used in our rated gains, by the way) that can make people interpret that they somehow show that the Superchip isn't making more power, and that simply isn't correct at all, if you look closely. If you look closely, it quite clearly shows gains remaining solid throughout the entire power band, with certain peaks in transitional areas, which we do not include in our published rated gains, by the way.

What STANDS OUT is the pattern during the upshift, simply because that is where the single largest power gain is made, from several things that are done, the removal of transitional spark retards and other changes. The horsepower gain during the upshift is *always* going to be the largest area of horsepower gain on these late-model F-150's, as it is sometimes as large as 50-70 horsepower, but only for a fraction of a second, or perhaps a second or so, before the power gain comes back down to represent only what we actually add in the way of engine output. This graph does a good job of showing the kinds of transitional gains we get, which do so much to improve overall driveability.

Then the second-largest area of gain is going to be in second gear (on the automatics, where the factory program locks up the torque converter, and then this happens, you lose 100 lbs./ft. of torque). So in the last half of second gear, you have the actual power gain that we are increasing actual engine power output by, *combined* with the gain in rear-wheel power from removing the TQ lockup at that point, the sum total of which is well over 100 lbs./ft. of torque. But you don't see that anywhere in our rated gains, either, simply because it is a "transitional" gain.

You are correct in that this type of graph is used to show a particular aspect; you are *not* correct in assuming that we are somehow trying to pull something over on anyone by misrepresenting *anything*.

If you have any hands-on direct experience with chassis dynos, and particularly highly sophisticated units, then you know that they can plot numerous different types of representative graphs, used to show a particular aspect. This particular graph is designed to show what we call "transitional" gains, so that people can see the improvements in driveability and power that are possible IN ADDITION to the raw power gains we get from the motor itself, through pure tuning, and this is represented in this particular graph in terms of what is happening in that graph, in road speed. You'll notice that nowhere do we make claims of gaining 50-75 hp even though it's true for brief periods in "transitional" areas.

And you'll notice that they are both clearly labeled as rear-wheel graphs, and that one is horsepower, and the other is torque, they are clearly labeled. Those graphs are NOT identical, if you look closely, you see that one is for horsepower, and the other is for torque.

And you can also see that there are clear gains across the entire power band; the only reason they look small is simply from the small *scale* of the graph, and the fact that they are rear-wheel and not flywheel.

When we rate the Superchips' rated power gains, they are expressed in terms of the peak gain in hp & torque over the factory numbers at the *flywheel*, not at the REAR wheels, as in this graph. And for the 4.6, the maximum power gain at the flywheel is 26 hp & 40 lbs./ft. of torque, using 92 octane, at sea level altitude.

You'll notice we don't say things like "the Superchip adds 50-75 horsepower" on the 4.6, even though at certain points in the program, in what we call "transitional" area, there can be those kinds of gains. However, they are "transitional", and therefore not proper to claim even as a peak gain, and I think that is an excellent example of Superchips doeing a good job of their rated gains being properly stated.

I hope that clears up your understanding of this a bit, and please feel free to give us a call if you'd like to discuss this in greater detail.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System

 

Hi, Mike:

Thank you for the very informative post -- I knew that you could describe the operational aspects of the product without compromising any trade secrets.

I also knew that responses would come fast and furious from your supporters since the Superchip is obviously the chip of choice by the members of this board.Your inference notwithstanding, I note that you can not find fault with anything that I have described in the above posts, either.

Anyhooooo -- I do see clearly that the graph shows a constant performance delta for the entire sweep -- and you have explained the peaks most admireably -- thanks.

While I've got your attention, do you make a chip that allows for regular fuel and also eliminates the century-mark limit and leaves the de-tune and shifting like stock?

------------------
Y2K™

Toreador Red, Keyless XLT SC SB 5.4L E4x4 4wDisc/ABS, 3.73LS, Skid, HD 7700# Towing, LT-245's on Chrome, Tube-Steps, Captain's, 6CD, Tonneau, named: "Nick"



[This message has been edited by Y2K 7700 4x4 (edited 06-06-2000).]

 

Thanks Tina & Mike,
Like both of you, I figured I would drive my truck a few hundred miles to make sure there were no bugs to be ironed out before I put the chip in. Plus I want to get a feel for it now, so that when I put the chip in, I'll be able tell what I notice most.

According to most of the posts I have read here, I'll notice the shift points right away.

Yes Mike, I didn't have to wait long for my truck It helps to have a brother-in-law who works at one of the Ford plants

I'll be in contact with you soon!


------------------
2000 F-150 XLT 4X4 SuperCab Flareside, Black
5.4L,3.55 LS,Off Road Pkg.,ClassIII Tow, CD player,
Captain's Chairs, Keyless Remote, Rear Slider,
Shift-On-The-Fly,Ford Bedliner.
Mods: Westin tube steps, Prime Design Bug Guard.
Future Mods: SuperChip, K&N FIPK, Cat-back, Hard Tonno Cover.

 

Dear Tina:

I've worked with chart recorders, charts, graphs and do presentations almost daily -- and from that chart, I infer that the Superchip provides 1 to 2 HP increase across the entire band -- but I suspect that you could do that yourself with premium gas and a 2-degree advance adjustment.

The starting points are just that -- with no hp shown for under 30 MPH which we all know is not true, else the truck would never reach 30 mph!

Those type of graphis MUST be read using the difference between lines exactly on top or below each other -- not side-to-side -- meaning if you look at the hp for the blue line at 40 mph, you must compare it to the red line exactly at 40 mph too.

Using rear wheel torque to define horsepower can mislead one into thinking that there is some magic that occurs in the engine during the shift, while a more representative graph would show engine horsepower and torque over the operating (rpm) range of the engine. Of course, you'd need to either:
1) remove the engine and hook it to a dynamometer, or
2) run the engine up thru the gears one at a time -- not going thru the shift

Since everyone wants to know what happens where the rubber meets the road, it makes a convenient selling point for the chassis dynamometer graphs.

Others have reported that the factory program detunes the engine during the shift -- and that is a convenient place to show a massive horsepower improvement -- except that we don't spend much time shifting (doh!) -- and in fact want that shift to be as razor sharp as ever (gotta chirp those tires, right?).

Let's see what Mike brings to the table, cuz I was wrong once, but that was when...

------------------
Y2K™

Toreador Red, Keyless XLT SC SB 5.4L E4x4 4wDisc/ABS, 3.73LS, Skid, HD 7700# Towing, LT-245's on Chrome, Tube-Steps, Captain's, 6CD, Tonneau, named: "Nick"

 

HI Y2K,

Oh I understand the inference all too well, and I'm sure you're every bit as sharp as you want us to understand you are.

To answer your question regarding the possibility of making a Superchip program that will allow you to run on lower-octane gasoline, while still having the other normal mods we do (TS Limiter removed, shifts firmed, etc.), sure, we do that all the time. The most cost-effective way to do this is in the Superchip Flip Chip, which stores any combination of 2 programs, and includes custom programming fees.

The way we do this is to set up both sides of the Flip Chip to be identical, with the sole exception of in Position 1, tuning the engine to still be able to run on regular gasoline. So you won't get anywhere near the raw power gain from the motor when using regular gas, but then you can flip over to the premium gas program when you need/want maximum power.

Configuring the Flip Chip in this manner gives you maximum fuel source flexibility, while allowing better performance all the time.

Please feel free to give us a call, and we'll be happy to go over this in detail with you.

------------------
Mike Troyer
Performance Products, Inc.
National Distributor of Superchips
(540) 862-9515
Email: mtroyer@compuserve.com
Performance Products F150Online Superchip ordering system: F150Online Superchip Ordering System