Direct for Oasis.

12991

P0605 (ROM TEST ERROR) - CHECK FOR 'AFTER MARKIT ' DEVICES
SOME OBDII VEHICLES MAY ESXHIBIT A KEY ONENGINE OFF (KOEO) SELF TEST DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE CODE (DTC) OF P0605 (PCM ROM TESII ERROR) . THIS MAY BE CAUSED IF AN AFTER MARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE IS INSSTALLED ON THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE (PCM) . TYPICALLY THESE DEVICES ARE INSTALLED BETWEEN THE PCM & VEHICLE HARNESS OR CONNECTED TO THE J3 CONNECTOR ON THE BACK OF THE PCM. IF AN "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE" CAUSES DAMAGE TO THE POWERTRAIN NECESSITATING A REPAIR, AT PRESENT OR IN THE FUTURE, A RESULTING REPAIR IS NOT REIMBURSABLE UNDER WARRENTY. REFER TO THE WARRENTY & POLICY MANUAL SECION THREE UNDER NON-REIMBURSABLE CONDITIONS. IF NO "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE" ARE FOUND, PERFORM DIAGNOSIS PER THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL/EMISSIONS DIAGNOSIS (PC/ED) MANUAL.

Apologies accepted.

 

Hi mike

So my assumption is correct in that the only direct damage it can cause at least electrically is damage to the PCM.

I'm not sure if an argument could be made as to any affects on the trans or engine through timing and shifting modifications. I would think if Ford found concerns in these ares they would specifically identify a certain chip producer. In order for them to do that they would really have to analize what the chips doing and how it causes the failure to develope. This would then probably be run extensively through their own engineering and legal folks before being made public.

I don't believe any dealer is qualified to make these determinations on their level nor have the resources to do so.

Anyway, just curios about your opinion---Bob

 

Well Gorp, it is certainly obvious tht you don't know how to summarize your posts with facts. Nowhere in your post did Ford mention the word "void". You embellished on that yourself, plus nowhere did they say that your warranty is automatically void either.

They said: IF AN "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE" CAUSES DAMAGE TO THE POWERTRAIN NECESSITATING A REPAIR, AT PRESENT OR IN THE FUTURE, A RESULTING REPAIR IS NOT REIMBURSABLE UNDER WARRENTY.

First off, the bulletin is too broad and subjective to hold much legal weight, and if nothign else, it places the burden of proof on the dealership and service tech.

IF AN "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE" CAUSES DAMAGE TO THE POWERTRAIN NECESSITATING A REPAIR

This is too broad and leaves it to Ford and your dealer to prove. In an earlier sentence they refered to

AN AFTER MARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE IS INSSTALLED ON THE POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE

but then they refer to it simply as an "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE". That is way too broad, and can easily be referred to as anyting. K&N FIPK, JBA Headers, Gibson Exhaust. They all are considered aftermarket performance devices. Better remove your headers Gorp.

Their proof must be scientific, and not subjective. Proof doesn't include a mechanic telling you they won't replace a bad fuel injector because you have a chip and it could be related. Proof in this case would have to be "we tested the pulses that the PCM was putting out, and we found that the PCM was outputting erratic injector pulses which cleared up when the chip was removed". And as with anything you buy, you have the right to sue the manufacturer to recoup your expenses if their equipment, properly installed causes damage to your vehicle.

As I have said before, if you're that worried about voiding your warranty, then you best not put anything aftermarket in your vehicle. Sorry Gorp, no apology is warranted. (That wasn't very PUNny)

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2000 F-150 XLT, Reg Cab/Long Box, Styleside, Oxford White, Dark Graphite Int., 4x4, 4.6L, 3.55 L/S, Off-Road pkg (Skid Plates, Cab Steps, Heavy Duty Shock Absorbers, LT265/70R17SL), Class III Towing pkg with Heavy Duty Cooling pkg, 4 wheel disk ABS, Overhead Console, Factory In-Dash CD, Remote Keyless Entry, and Sliding Rear Window.

Added: K&N FIPK, Cabin Air Filtration, Ventvisors, Ford Bug Deflector, New: Ford Bedliner, SuperChip

 

This can be interpreted in many ways. I have been told many amusing stories about people that have come in with "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE” installed that have damage sensors, transmission and countless on systems on their cars and trucks. (The best one I remember is a customer that came in that had installed an "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE" and was arguing with the service rep. about the warranty. The regional service rep. was told about this and he went into oasis and canceled the customers extended service warranty.) However you interpret this is up to you. All I know is Ford dealers will interpret it their way.

I think this is good info to know. It shows you what to really expect when taking your truck or car in for service. I for one do not have to worry about service. (It helps when your friends of 30 years own the dealer and close family works at another.)

I could post lots of stories about "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICES". But when I here them they make me mad. So I know if some of you heard them they would real do a number.

 

"This can be interpreted in many ways."
"However you interpret this is up to you. All I know is Ford dealers will interpret it their way."

Empasized in plain English There is only ONE interpretation. It is called the Magnuson-Moss..Act. Read it!

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1999 F250 SD CC, LWB, 5.4L, Auto, 3.73, 4x4, Power TT mirrors w/ marker lights, White, Full Tint, PendaPro SR, Flowmaster Delta 40 series, K&N filtercharger, Superchip (Airbox removed for a second try, maybe in the winter it will be advantagous?) Lund Elite soft tonneau

www.angelfire.com/pa3/spaceace/index.html

 

Gorp:
I have been reading these posts with some amusement. At least you're consistent. On your original post: I hope you didn't do a direct "cut and paste" from Ford's OASIS to these boards. If so, those Ford authors are almost as bad at spelling as you are! Has no-one gotten this guy a spell checker yet? My God man! Were you in Deliverence?

You buy em' books and ya buy em' books (sigh)................


[This message has been edited by selva1 (edited 05-22-2000).]

 

selva1:
I sure hope the personal attacks of my spelling and grammar makes you feel better. It shows me what a mentally challenged individual you really are.

spaceace:
As stated before the Magnuson-Moss act is not worth the paper it is written on. You have to prove the dealer wrong and that takes money. The dealer has lots of money.

 

Gorp..I'm disappointed,

Here's the math
The dealer spends $1000 in lawyer fees to fight a $200 warrenty denial..while you "Joe Consumer" go in arbitration without lawyer. (Why take a lawyer into an arbitration a monkey could handle?)
A smart dealer will not spend $800 to save $200. Especially when the DEALER has to provide the burden of proof.

C'mon the Magnuson-Moss ..Act works. Read it.

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1999 F250 SD CC, LWB, 5.4L, Auto, 3.73, 4x4, Power TT mirrors w/ marker lights, White, Full Tint, PendaPro SR, Flowmaster Delta 40 series, K&N filtercharger, Superchip (Airbox removed for a second try, maybe in the winter it will be advantagous?) Lund Elite soft tonneau

www.angelfire.com/pa3/spaceace/index.html



[This message has been edited by spaceace (edited 05-22-2000).]

 

Uh, Gorp?

I believe the dealer has to prove fault, specifically, scientificly and unequivocally why a specific add-on caused a specific failure, not the customer.

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Dunbarton "The Middle Aged Kid" '99 XLT SC SB 4x2 4.6 auto 3.55 ls The occasional Z-71 Eater! Wedgewood & Denim, SuperChipped, Airaid FIPK, HD electrical and cooling, power seat, Rhino Liner, Extang Classic tonneau cover, Mobil 1. Man, I got it all! (New Jersey)

 

I've refrained from posting flames thus far because it wasn't warranted. But Gorp, although selva1 may have gotten a little carried away with his comments, he did bring up an excellent point. You did have a number of spelling and grammar mistakes, which does make one wonder about the authenticity of the post.

If you want to resort to name calling, then perhaps you should classify yourself as a mentally challenged individual as you did with selva1. At least the rest of us can realize that the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act is worth far more than the paper it's printed on. Even in your own post, Ford says that AN "AFTERMARKET PERFORMANCE DEVICE" CAUSES DAMAGE TO THE POWERTRAIN NECESSITATING A REPAIR, AT PRESENT OR IN THE FUTURE, A RESULTING REPAIR IS NOT REIMBURSABLE UNDER WARRENTY.

What you obviously don't comprehend is that the burden of proof is on the dealer, that's the LAW, and that's also Ford's position. Unless it's obviously a problem caused by an aftermarket part, I can't imagine the dealer even putting up a fight, especially when the reimbursement doesn't come out of their pockets. If your dealer gives you a hard time, I suggest you find another because they ain't worth sh*t.

 

Gorp, my man...

In 'the other thread' I mentioned that you would do well to seek out a different service department if their mode of operation is as you described (voiding the warranty the moment a Superchip is installed). That's wrong Gorp - they're leading you down the wrong trail. It's your truck, not theirs. Your gain would equate into their loss...

I don't know what your philosophy on truck ownership is - but I absolutely love my truck and will do with it, and to it, what I wish. It is my truck and I'll modify it to suit my wants. If, as a result of one of my mods, I break something - I pay for it. If, while a mod is still there, something breaks and it's not related to my mod - it's covered under warranty. Should the dealer declare that the mod caused the failure - the dealer will have to prove it. The warranty act stipulates the burden of proof rests with the holder of the warranty (which is viewed as an insurance policy in Washington State). Any disputes of this type are investigated by the Office of the Insurance Commissioner of Washington under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

The Act carries more than it's weight in Washington State. The state laws probably vary some where you live Gorp - check into the local laws as well as the Better Business Bureau and other consumer protection organizations. I think you'll find your buddies at the service department are howling at the moon...

Tom in Tacoma

 

Y2K OffRoad:
I can fax you the paper if you want?

TColegrove:
I love my truck to. I would do all of the mods to my truck all over again and maybe even a superchip. But my truck will always go to the dealer that does my work for free.

If I could type better I would post meny more stories about what I have heard about aftermarkit parts and warranty. These would really make people angry so I will not post them. It is amazing what you hear from these poeple.

 

Gorp..in all honesty...your post did nothing to prove your point...we all know/knew this!

I thought you were working with Mike to see if your chip needs to be adjusted with all of your other aftermarket accessories on your truck. Just get with Mike and see what he can do for you!!! This is the best thing you can do at this point!!!!

Mike will certainly square you away if he possibly can!

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2000 F-150 XLT, 4x2, 5.4L Supercab, Superchip, Styleside, Black with silver two-tone, 3.55 rear, class III towing package with heavy duty cooling package, Heavy duty shocks, 4 wheel disk ABS, overhead console, sliding rear window, keyless entry, dark graphite interior, in dash CD, factory leather wrapped steering wheel, Pendaliner bedliner, K&N air filter, rubberized undercoating, cabin filtration system, Bugflector II, 5W-30 Mobil 1, engine build 10/4/99



[This message has been edited by Dustoff (edited 05-22-2000).]

 

Actually Gorp, I wasn't doubting the validity of your post, merely pointing out the spelling and grammar mistakes can make one wonder as to the credibilty of it.

But the post was nothing I've haven't heard before. The dispute seems to be in how we're each interpreting the Ford bulletin, which obviously means that it is losely worded. And you're welcome to fax the paper to me if you'd like, I'd even be happy to make it available to anyone here who'd like to see it for themselves.

Fax it to me at work if you want, 315-451-8824, Attention: Steve White.

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2000 F-150 XLT, Reg Cab/Long Box, Styleside, Oxford White, Dark Graphite Int., 4x4, 4.6L, 3.55 L/S, Off-Road pkg (Skid Plates, Cab Steps, Heavy Duty Shock Absorbers, LT265/70R17SL), Class III Towing pkg with Heavy Duty Cooling pkg, 4 wheel disk ABS, Overhead Console, Factory In-Dash CD, Remote Keyless Entry, and Sliding Rear Window.

Added: K&N FIPK, Cabin Air Filtration, Ventvisors, Ford Bug Deflector, New: Ford Bedliner, SuperChip

 

Gorpy, Gorpy, Gorpy

What are we going to do with you. Everyone agrees if the aftermarket device causes the damage the warrenty for that specific repair is void.

It dosen't say it's automatically void if a chip is there.

Gee, what about tires, air filter injection, SUPERCHARGERS, Etc.....


You stated thursday that you were going to talk to Mike T. What happened to that.

I had to make an appointment for a couple of recalls and I mentioned this to my service guy and he said if I did put a chip on the PCM he'd like to know to save time when getting a reading on their trouble shooting computer. Otherwise the tech will spend time looking for something wrong. As far as warrenty as long as it doesn't cause another part to fail "it's no big deal".

Mike....

Does the superchip drive other parts directly or is it done through the same factory drivers already on the PCM circuit card. If the chip is not directly hooked to the other components in the vehicle then the farthest the liability of losing warrenty can go is the PCM.


Mike see where I'm going----Bob

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The vehicle above is one of many. Try refreshing. It goes by random but the Expy is exactly like mine.
99 EB Expedition 5.4L, Dark Toreador Red with all the perks,3.73 LS,Heated Mirrors and Seats. Everything but sun-roof. Rhino Step Bar, Ford Bug Shield,Even the hitch propeller, More to come...


[This message has been edited by ExpyBob (edited 05-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by ExpyBob (edited 05-22-2000).]