questions about 9100 and rims and tires
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Joined: Oct 2002
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From: louisiana
questions about 9100 and rims and tires
looking at buying a 9100, but was wondering what kind of gains you might get if you put 20s or 22's. i don't want to buy rims and then not see any gains because of them. thanks for your help
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
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From: Commerce Twp, MI
Larger rims = heavier = slower, in general. I can't say that I have heard of people buying 20"+ rims for performance reasons. Now a microtuner will offset that to some degree, but it would be even better if you kept smaller wheels and tires.
Waht size tires do you have now and what size are you thinking about going to?
Waht size tires do you have now and what size are you thinking about going to?
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Joined: Mar 1998
Posts: 13,385
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From: Virginia
Hi mx52,
It's not the wheel size that affects torque multiplication or how much power or performance you gain - there is perhaps a misunderstanding of how this works in general.
Sure, all else being equal, adding more weight slows any vehicle's rate of acceleration down a bit - how much it slows down depends on just how *much* additional weight we're talking about, of course - and in a set of 20" wheels, it's not much, sometimes even a tad less than what the factory 17" wheels weigh.
Even if a particular set of 20" wheels may weigh a bit more than the rather heavy stock factory wheels on these F-150's (depending on just which wheel & tire setup yours has from the factory), that has no impact on the amount of torque multiplication or power gain you get from our custom tuning - none whatsoever.
If you use what's called "plus sizing," which is where you simply use a shorter tire to compensate for the larger wheel so that the resulting tire height is roughly the same, then you have *no* difference in actual torque multiplication. Thanks to plus sizing, you're still using the same basic height of tire - so you get the same performance gain from almost any performance modification, basically.
It's only when you actually go to a significantly taller **tire height** that you effectively reduce torque multiplication - but even that still does not somehow "negate" the power & performance gain from our custom tuning. All that does is to alter the final amount of torque multiplication - not actual horsepower or torque levels in the motor. Yes, all else being equal, a "taller" tire does reduce torque multiplication - and that will, in some cases, slightly reduce the amount of improvement in acceleration times from our custom tuning a little bit - but it's all a matter of just how much taller you go, and in most cases there isn't enough of a difference to worry about in the real world.
How much time we shave off the 0-60 & 1/4 mile times with our custom tuning is not going to change significantly regardless of tire size (unless you're talking about using say, monster 35" or taller tires, for example). In other words, even after you install taller tires, you are *still* going to see a significant improvement in performance, power and reduced acceleration times from our custom tuning - taller tires are not going to somehow "negate" that.
Taller tires make no difference in how much actual *power* is gained in the engine - and only start to make a "measurable" difference in how much the acceleration times are reduced when you get up into say, roughly the 35" & taller range. Even then, it's not much of a reduction in that improvement, and it's never going to somehow "negate" our tuning with a 20-22" wheel size - that truck is always going to run faster, pull harder & accelerate quicker with our tuning than without it - it's always worthwhile.
Now if you go with 22" (or larger) wheels, then in most cases you also need to upgrade your brakes - this is something wheel vendors sometimes don't bother to tell their customers, but many 22" or larger wheels are going to have more mass, and thus put more stress on the brakes. Except in "show" trucks (as opposed to a normal "daily driver") that will not see any towing, and no mountains, etc., where the brakes will need to be fully up to snuff (well, they should be always, anyway), or unless you are going to also upgrade the brakes (meaning at a minimum, more powerful/larger calipers), we generally recommend not going any bigger than 20" for the wheel size.
The bottom line is, installing 20-22" wheels is not going to "negate" the performance improvement from our custom tuning - you're still going to see at least a half-second off the 0-60 & 1/4 miles times in a properly controlled before & after test. And for most F-150 owners, they get even more of an improvement from our tuning - the average with our custom tuning is about 7 tenths off the 0-60 times, and close to a full second off the 1/4 mile times - and that's the *average*, with some gaining even more, some gaining a bit less, like any "average" figure.
I hope that brief info helps, & feel free to give us a call if you'd like to go over this in any more detail, etc.
Best of luck whatever you decide,
It's not the wheel size that affects torque multiplication or how much power or performance you gain - there is perhaps a misunderstanding of how this works in general.
Sure, all else being equal, adding more weight slows any vehicle's rate of acceleration down a bit - how much it slows down depends on just how *much* additional weight we're talking about, of course - and in a set of 20" wheels, it's not much, sometimes even a tad less than what the factory 17" wheels weigh.
Even if a particular set of 20" wheels may weigh a bit more than the rather heavy stock factory wheels on these F-150's (depending on just which wheel & tire setup yours has from the factory), that has no impact on the amount of torque multiplication or power gain you get from our custom tuning - none whatsoever.
If you use what's called "plus sizing," which is where you simply use a shorter tire to compensate for the larger wheel so that the resulting tire height is roughly the same, then you have *no* difference in actual torque multiplication. Thanks to plus sizing, you're still using the same basic height of tire - so you get the same performance gain from almost any performance modification, basically.
It's only when you actually go to a significantly taller **tire height** that you effectively reduce torque multiplication - but even that still does not somehow "negate" the power & performance gain from our custom tuning. All that does is to alter the final amount of torque multiplication - not actual horsepower or torque levels in the motor. Yes, all else being equal, a "taller" tire does reduce torque multiplication - and that will, in some cases, slightly reduce the amount of improvement in acceleration times from our custom tuning a little bit - but it's all a matter of just how much taller you go, and in most cases there isn't enough of a difference to worry about in the real world.
How much time we shave off the 0-60 & 1/4 mile times with our custom tuning is not going to change significantly regardless of tire size (unless you're talking about using say, monster 35" or taller tires, for example). In other words, even after you install taller tires, you are *still* going to see a significant improvement in performance, power and reduced acceleration times from our custom tuning - taller tires are not going to somehow "negate" that.
Taller tires make no difference in how much actual *power* is gained in the engine - and only start to make a "measurable" difference in how much the acceleration times are reduced when you get up into say, roughly the 35" & taller range. Even then, it's not much of a reduction in that improvement, and it's never going to somehow "negate" our tuning with a 20-22" wheel size - that truck is always going to run faster, pull harder & accelerate quicker with our tuning than without it - it's always worthwhile.
Now if you go with 22" (or larger) wheels, then in most cases you also need to upgrade your brakes - this is something wheel vendors sometimes don't bother to tell their customers, but many 22" or larger wheels are going to have more mass, and thus put more stress on the brakes. Except in "show" trucks (as opposed to a normal "daily driver") that will not see any towing, and no mountains, etc., where the brakes will need to be fully up to snuff (well, they should be always, anyway), or unless you are going to also upgrade the brakes (meaning at a minimum, more powerful/larger calipers), we generally recommend not going any bigger than 20" for the wheel size.
The bottom line is, installing 20-22" wheels is not going to "negate" the performance improvement from our custom tuning - you're still going to see at least a half-second off the 0-60 & 1/4 miles times in a properly controlled before & after test. And for most F-150 owners, they get even more of an improvement from our tuning - the average with our custom tuning is about 7 tenths off the 0-60 times, and close to a full second off the 1/4 mile times - and that's the *average*, with some gaining even more, some gaining a bit less, like any "average" figure.
I hope that brief info helps, & feel free to give us a call if you'd like to go over this in any more detail, etc.
Best of luck whatever you decide,
Last edited by Superchips_Distributor; Apr 6, 2004 at 03:12 PM.
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 5,358
Likes: 1
From: Commerce Twp, MI
While everything Mike said about effective gearing or torque multiplication is true, wheel/tire weight makes more of a difference than what the static weight differerences may suggest. Innertia plays a large role in how much torque it takes to make a wheel rotate.
In general, wheels weigh more than rubber. So, going to larger wheels with less rubber may keep the same overall diameter, but it may have an adverse effect on power to the wheels. Like Mike said, it depends on the particular wheels as most OEM rims (including F-150's) weight more than most aftermarket wheels of the same size so going a little larger with a lighter wheel design may still not effect things much.
In general, wheels weigh more than rubber. So, going to larger wheels with less rubber may keep the same overall diameter, but it may have an adverse effect on power to the wheels. Like Mike said, it depends on the particular wheels as most OEM rims (including F-150's) weight more than most aftermarket wheels of the same size so going a little larger with a lighter wheel design may still not effect things much.