You should have seen m jaw drop on this one. Literally. 100 hp? so port, heads, cams, nice tune = 100 hp add on for a 4.6? Thats insane.

 

JMC,
I understand what you are saying, and it is much appreciated. I am just looking for some way to find my bearing before I set sail.
Rick

 

HI!... Just remember guys that, that 100H.P (flywheel) doesn't come cheap. 1st you have a set of "03" P.I heads with the 8 thread spark plug holes, full race port/polish job, larger than stock one peice S/S valves with 3/4 or 5 angle valve job, after market siffer valve springs, and CROWER high lift billet camshafts. Mike T was telling me that the 100H.P (flywheel) gain is only achieved with the very high lift CROWER cams with 0.600 + lift. That would be the STAGE 2 or STAGE 3 CROWER cams. In order to run these cams you must have a BUILT bottom end because the stock 4.6/5.4 rods like to break after 6000RPM. These cams go from about 1100RPM up to 6500RPM and even 6800RPM. Mike was telling me about the best N/A cam with these heads would be the CROWER STAGE 2 N/A cams which are in the high 0.500 lift range and good to 6000RPM. This cam should be good for about 65-80H.P (flywheel) with the fully done heads. I'm currently saving up for this set-up myself and should put me in the 400H.P (flywheel) range in N/A trim.

62801 Stage 2 - Hot street profile. Emphasis on mid range. Spring recommended. 114 258 / 254 212 / 208 .570 / .559 1000 to 6000+


Hopefully MIKE T will read this and chime in with some more in depth info.

 

ohhhhhhhh flywheel.
<-----feeling dumb

 

Hi Grin,

Gaining 100 hp at the flywheel translates to 85 hp at the rear wheels if it's a manual tranny truck, on an automatic, about 75 hp to the rear wheels. What other part is going to deliver another 75-85 hp to the rear wheels all the time, without having to fill a nitrous bottle?

A supercharger is the only other way, which makes doing the cylinder heads a more cost-effective method.

And that is still with a fairly smooth idle, by the way. Those with 5.4's that don't mind a rumpity-rump idle and all-out port job can gain *more* than 100 hp.

We can make those kinds of power gains on these modular motors simply because their stock heads & cams are pathetic, even the PI heads don't flow very well & they have very little lift & duration, etc. The truck cams aren't even close to having as much lift as the *stock* Mustang GT cams do, and when we can go in and port the heads, enlarge the valve size, throw in .600+ lift cams and a matching valvespring package, it's pretty hard *not* to make big power gains.

Neal will soon be starting another power-adding project that we are just now starting to discuss, and when it's over, he'll be blowing away just about any other F-150 even with a supercharger, even *worse* than he's already doing right now. Right now, with proper traction he's got the power to easily run deep into the 13's (outrunning many supercharged F-150's & making those owners very upset right now), and that's with *no* supercharger, no nitrous oxide, and bone-stock cylinder heads & cams, etc.

Then once we're finished with that, *then* comes the blower later on.....................

Neal's fast truck is going to be a *bunch* quicker..............

 

yea i have to give the props to neal. His truck is one quick puppy. I was always kinda curious about that though, neal are you gonna supercharge it or no? I kinda thoght you were modding the way you do because you didnt like blowers, or you just liked NA. Like i love superchargers but im not a big fan of the nitrious, always seems kinda like a cheap shot to me. After looking at some of the very extensive mods you do it seems like you could have just bought an L outright to be where your at in terms of et. Obviously modding is half the fun, but if you supercharge that thing its gonna be insane.

And yeah mike no doubt its still a very impressive gain, i had no idea the stock heads were really that bad.

Oh yeah and last thing, neal has aftermarket pistons and rods right? And what about the block, is the block from a normal 5.4 the same as the lightning block? Do you suspect it will hold under all the power? What other weak points are you looking at? fuel system would be my first guess unless thats been changed already. And then of course theres always the traction issue.

In anycase, cant wait to see how it all turns out. Cant wait til i get my *** into some money so i can really join the fun. I have insane mod ideas. I should grab a sponser.

Lastly, i suck at tranny, is that conversion from flywheel to rearwheel basically work in percentages? So were talking 85% for manuals and 75% for autos?

Btw mike, thanks for the responce, your posts are always the most informative of the bunch and its good to not see you in all the "wars" going on in other parts of the board (unless i just missed em).

 

HI!... grinomyte : Yes I could of bought a LIGHTNING, but what would be the fun in that? LOL! I've always takin ordinary vehicles and modded them, it's what I do. How eles would you explain my 713H.P N/A PRO STREET RANGER? lol! I've already upgraded my fuel system thanks to MIKE T and I have installed 24LB injectors. I have new LIGHTNING 42LB injectors to go in when I do the heads. I'm currently running a bone stock short block and stock heads and cams. Just bolt-ons so far except for the ported TB and TB ELBOW. I will be SC'ing, but not on this block. I have another 5.4 engine thatI'll be building up this FALL which will have a LIGHTNING lower intake/intercooler with a WIPPLE SC at about 22PSI. I just want to see how fast I can make this truck go in N/A trim. With MIKE's heads we figure on high 12's.

 

Just what i figured. Great job.

 

Hi Grin,

Thanks for your kind response............

Just a little quick FYI stuff, you may already know all of this.........................

The stock 5.4 block has the same forged steel crank as the Lightning motor gets, and has the same connecting rods, the only difference is that the pistons aren't forged like they are in the Lightning.

The crank is good for way over 700 HP (with good prep as much as 850 to maybe 900 HP), the con rods are good to 550-600 HP with proper tune & keeping the rpms down, and the stock cast pistons are the limiting factor here, good for 450 to *maybe* 500 HP with a really "fat" tune.

When people "build" 5.4 motors, usually they use the stock forged steel 5.4 crank with appropriate prep work, then of course forged rods & pistons, then your short block is good for anywhere from 750 HP to 900 HP levels.

So right now, Neal's primary limitation is the stock cast pistons, but he can still add significantly more power before he reaches the limits of those stock pistons. And as he mentioned, he's got another 5.4 motor that he's building over time, and of course only the best parts are going in. That's one of the pleasures of working with Neal, is that no matter how long it takes, he will not take shortcuts or buy cheap parts, he'll wait until he can get the very best parts, and then massage them even further. Which is why his truck runs as well as it does.

 

Hey Mike,


I would like to let some people know what I found on my 03 Harley as far as the crank. Mine is not a forged but a cast crank. Yes cast. Not forged. I could see the casting marks right on it. I made a few calls, actually a lot to get to the right people, and it seems with the added weight of the Hd over the L, and the stock 5.4 rods, Ford used the regular cast crank so it would "give" a little more and not stress the rods as much as a forged crank would. This is the explination I got from an engineer from Ford. This was brought about from many trucks breaking rods. I asked why they just didn't add better rods ...He said the bean counters got involved and wanted to use what was in their inventory and not to add more different parts to the engine assembly, thus keeping cost down. go figure.....
The engineer was not aware of any L not having a forged crank, only the Hd's with the cast crank.
One other tidbit I have found in the dissassembly of mine. The 03 blocks are much beefier. The webbing is much thicker than what was in my last 5.4 which was a 2001.
Just wanted to let you know that as well Mike in case someone wants to know what is in an 03 Hd engine.....My heads at least had the threads added so that was nice..... One less thing to add in addition to the porting and polishing I am having done...Looking at low 11's and maybe on a good day...10's...Will have to see....

 

HI!... My "98" 5.4 crate engine has a forged steel crank and so does my "99" 5.4. I have a few buddies that work directly on the 5.4 line and a few in the foundry here in WINDSOR. They have all told me that FORD's only makes forged cranks for the 5.4 engines. The 4.6 has two different cranks. Forged and cast steel. I've never seen or heard of any 5.4 engine not having a forged steel crank.

 

Hey Neal,


I was under the same impression and was totally in aw when I saw a cast crank in my HD. More like Ticked. I will see if I have the pics I took of the crank still in my comp at home and will post them. it is deffinatley cast. Like I said I did get a hold of Ford and he did confirm that the HD's were getting cast cranks put in them.
I also talked to Paul At REM and while talking to him I asked him if he has come across this and he even confirmed the same thing I found in mine. He is where I am getting my head work and block work done at.
So it isn't just me that has saw this....Another thing that goes into the "non Logical Ford thought process" bin for me
By the way, I was up your way a month ago, I used to live in Ypsi area, and was looking for you to say Hi. Never did see you....We may be up that way again in July or so. I will let you know when...Would love to see this N/a Ford you have put together. You may be impressed with my 03 HD too. KB s/c, Monsterbox tranny and 2400 stall, built bottom end and ported and cammed heads, to name the big mods.......Think you would take me?..lol

 

Mike, I'm a bit confused about something. Will the GT cams work in the 5.4L? Also, will they work on non-PI heads, or would I have to swap? Finally, would I be ok with driving the truck with, say GT cam and a port & polish without tuning on 93 until the chip arrived?

Thanks
-Flea

 

HI!... ecm747x : Here is the FORGED steel crank out of my "98" 5.4 crate engine. I brought it into my engine builder and they looked at it and tested it. It is definetly a FORGED steel crankshaft.

https://www.f150online.com/galleries...4-794-6970.jpg


P.S : YA e-mail me when your going to be near buy. I'd luv to get together with you. You can also meet JMC, IZZY EDDY, ZUB and some others. If you would come by closer to SEPTEMBER, our run might be a bit closer. I'm going to be getting MIKE T's heads by then and have them installed. Should be in very high 12's in N/A form by then!

 

Hi ECM,

That's news to me that Ford shipped any supercharged 5.4 SOHC motor without a forged steel crank. Every 5.4 motor built that we've ever seen (including "regular" F-150's starting in 1997) has had a forged steel crank, due to several factors, not the least of which is it's terrible rod-stroke ratio! All the 50 additional cubes over the 4.6 came from stroke, because the bore size is basically "locked" in at a max .020 overbore due to the original front wheel drive configuration all modular motors were designed for. Which is why the con rods are almost 7 inches long!

Yes, we've known about the '03 blocks being "beefier" for some time of course, as well as the cylinder heads having twice the number of threads gripping the spark plug. However, the previous blocks are already *plenty* strong, the newer '03 block really isn't needed unless you want to go to 900-1000 HP or more.

I don't buy for 1 minute any story about the Harley's 400-600 additional lbs of weight being a reason for the crank not needing to be a forged steel unit. The engine is *still* supercharged, and *all* 5.4's in the F-150, including weakest 235 hp 1997 & 1998 models, have always had forged steel cranks. That includes Expeditions, by the way, and every other vehicle getting a 5.4 motor.

That's like saying that the F-250 SuperDuty trucks (which is a 3/4 ton truck as opposed to the F-150 being a 1/2 ton truck), because it's a *heavier* truck than an F-150, can get away with a cast crank in the 5.4 where the F-150 can't. Absolutely wrong answer.

Something doesn't sound right here........perhaps they are saying that with the changes to the *block* for 2003 that they aren't requiring a forged steel crank, now *that* might have some kind of bearing on the matter. Maybe. However, given the vastly increased strength of the original modular motor block over "conventional" V8 engine blocks in general, with the crankshaft being completely contained within the block, the foot-long head bolts going down to the skirts, the thick webbing, etc., I'd have to see some darned serious R&D proving *that* out before I'd believe that this would make it acceptable to stop using forged steel cranks in factory supercharged 5.4's.....................