I am getting ready to do a magnacharger install on a 97 f150. I was wandering if you had to do a dyno run for a custom burn chip or if one can be matched with a list of your mods? There is not a local dyno in my area. It would be great if a program could be matched according to the mods in my sign.

 

Hi Big O,

First, I hope you aren't running *any* aftermarket MAF with the Superchips Micro Tuner, as if so, you are running around *dangerously* lean and that needs to stop immediately to avoid engine, sensor & even exhaust system damage. I see you have an 80mm MAF listed in your signature line, so if you have changed to *anything* other than the original factory MAF, get it back off of there and get the factory unit back on until you get the tuning corrected. The headers and your other intake & exhaust mods, along with that MAF and running the *standard* Superchips tuning in the Micro Tuner has that engine running very badly lean, lean enough to cause very expensive damage, and that needs to stop right away. Your setup *already* requires significant custom tuning to correct, that cannot wait for the supercharger, and you don't need to go to a dyno to get what's wrong right now taken care of, so please don't ignore this, call us right away.

OK, with the emergency handled........................

Sorry, but we will not provide any custom tuning for a vehicle that has had a supercharger added without having the dyno data, to include A/F testing. We must have the power plots and especially the Air/Fuel ratio testing data, that is the only way to properly tune any vehicle that has had a supercharger added to it. Period.

In the past, we used to do that, and while a lot of the programs were very good right out of the box thanks to how much R&D we do in these F-150's, it still required far too many adjustments & re-dos to get things right for every single vehicle, & that's with us having provided the tuning for literally hundreds upon hundreds of supercharged F-150's. Without dyno data, even with all the R&D that Superchips does directly for most supercharger manufacturers and all the work we've done on these F-150's, it's just educated guesswork at best, so the dyno data is a must anytime a blower is added, no exceptions.

Anyone who is going to spend thousands of dollars to add a supercharger needs to bite the bullet and do it right, find a dyno facility that is capable of doing *proper* A/F testing (no tailpipe sniffing!), even if you have to drive hundreds of miles to get there.

It all boils down to this: there's doing it *right,* and then there's everything else.

What I would suggest is to call us right away (we'll be back in the office on Monday morning, it's Friday after closing now) & we can go over this in proper detail with you. Whatever you do, please don't continue to run around with the mods you have listed in your signature, as that's just begging for a meltdown of the many-thousands-of-dollars variety, ok?

Good luck!

 

Thanks for the reply and info Mike. Help me understand the extreme lean condition. Would I be running lean at part throttle or WOT or both? How does the larger maf sensor cause a lean condition? Wouldn't the computer compensate for the increased air flow with increased fuel flow to acheive the desired ratio set by the tuning/stock programing and wouldn't I be getting lean codes from the O2 sensors? Does the aftermarket maf's fool the computer somehow? I have had the micro tuner on for several weeks and have made several WOT runs with no issues. I previously ran a hpertech chip with my present mods for the past two years. I understand how running lean can damage plugs and O2 sensors but how does that effect the exhaust system and what other type of engine damage can occur? What is proper A/F testing and is there a perticular type of dyno that is best? Looking forward to more info.

 

Hi Big O,

This gets too detailed to go over here, so to go over this, give us a call and I'll be happy to. I'll go over a couple of things briefly..............

First, don't think of MAF systems as something that can fix itself, or correct tuning problems, it's not. It can't fix a lean condition like you have there, only proper tuning can do that, There are limitations of both the hardware (such as the low-grade narrow band O2 sensors used on all vehicles) to the tuning itself, during both closed loop and open loop operation.

Just because a system goes into closed loop does not give it the ability to just "fix" A/F ratio problems, or load-based problems, only proper *tuning* can do that. The system has a limited ability to compensate A/F's on the fly during closed loop operation, but the narrow band O2's prevent it from having a wide effective compensation capability, at best. In general, you have to be pretty darn lean before you'll get a light, and in some cases, you can be right on the threshold of meltdown territory by the time a light comes on. Remember, this depends on the O2 sensors ability to detect & report the condition properly. Factory O2's are basically limited-range thermocouples, which generate an electrical signal via the differing expansion & contraction rates of the 2 dissimilar metals that are bonded together to comprise the thermocouple (probe), and this generated signal is received by the PCM and interpreted as oxygen content in the spent exhaust stream. Thus, they are constantly subjected to tremendous heat (they have to see 600 degrees to start working in most cases) and the physical wear & tear from the different expansion & contraction rate of the 2 dissimilar metals. From the moment they are first put in use, they are deteriorating in terms of condition, thus effective range, etc. The only real test is for gross response rate to stimulus, which isn't much of a real test of an O2 sensor's actual effectiveness, just it's gross response rate to one form of stimulus. You have cheap narrow-band O2's to being with, as wide-band units are still very expensive ($70 each versus $350-$500 each), so overall, it's got a limited ability to "compensate," and uses stoichiometric A/F (14.7:1), the desired A/F for no-load conditions, as it's "centerpoint" (that's not necessarily the correct technical definition, but in effect, it's a useable term for these purposes). and not say, 11.8:1, or 12.4:1. So it's ability to work properly effectively lessens the further you get away from stoich.

The single most important element in your case is the aftermarket MAF. Virtually all of them will lean the motor out as part of their method for achieving power gains on stock to lightly modified engines, thus you can end up about 2 full points lean (I.E., going from 12.0:1 A/F to 14:1). It's just what happens with aftermarket MAF's in general, as part of their power gain is to lean it out a bit. MAF's don't cure problems like that just because they "measure" air density (and how they do that is another discussion altogether), only proper tuning does.

Most of the time you hear A/F ratios quoted, it's @ WOT, during open loop operation. Your combination of mods has you running lean *all* the time, it's outside of the system's ability to compensate for, and must be corrected. By the way, please forgive me if I sounded a bit "heavy" on that in my last post, that wasn't my intention (I tend to type as I try to think, sometimes dangerous), but I do become instantly alarmed when I see something like that, because at best it's not good & you never know what the actual consequences will be. Worst case, it can be a literal meltdown, best case you're way too lean for best power. In your case, with everything listed in your signature, you need immediate corrective action there to be safe, but there's an easy and quick short term solution....... for right now, you could just swap back out to your orignal factory MAF. That would get you out of the meltdown danger zone, so to speak, though you'll most likely still be too lean for best power, you at least won't melt parts. Then you buy yourself a bit of time to get the custom tuning done that is required.

You can run with the Micro Tuner, the intake, the exhaust, & the throttle body and you won't be dangerously lean. But add that MAF to that mix and bingo!, you're in the danger zone. Add a set of headers and you're usually too lean for best power along with the rest of your mods, and so should be corrected.

How exhaust system damage happens is from the elevated EGT's (exhaust gas temperatures) caused by the lean condition; the leaner the A/F, the hotter the EGT. Your cats will crack, for example, along with the header tubes, and over time, this will continue and will not stop until the EGT's are brought back down. Of course, heat-induced metal fatique takes time to show visible cracks, but trust me, even if you have put the vehicle up on a lift to carefully inspect the entire exhaust system & don't currently have visible cracks, it *will* happen, it's just a matter of time; and the harder you run it, the quicker & more that will happen. Catalytic converters already generate a lot of *additional* heat above and beyond the hot exhaust gases coming from the combustion chamber (which are already going to be 1300+ under heavy throttle with proper tuning), and any elevation in EGT's isn't good for the cats.

Proper A/F ratio testing requires installation of a wide-band O2 sensors *before* the catalytic converters, and should be done on a chassis dyno in 1:1 (3rd gear for the auto's, 4th for manual F-150's) so you can get a proper printed graph of A/F's across the power band. No tailpipe sniffing, a wide-band O2 has to be installed before the cats.

Well, I did go into a bit more detail than I intended, and it still isn't thorough, but that'll do for now. Give us a call to go over anything else on this.

 

Please explain how a mass air flow meter leans out the A/F ratios? Does it do something other that supply the computer with mass air flow amounts? I looked at Granatelli's website and it stated that the MAFs were compatable with mods such as programmers and chips. They only mentioned a custom calibration with Cold Air Induction kits which I don't have. If the A/F ratios are offset by two points, wouldn't that be by some type of program?? or is the MAF calibrated to fool the computer into leaning out the A/F ratios by telling it that it is receive less air than actual? I hooked my code reader up and there were no lean codes of any sort. I had a PVC hose go bad in the past and I got lean codes from both banks and no CEL. I find it hard to believe that with as much safety factors that Ford has built in to thire motors ie. rich A/F ratios that they would allow conditions to elevate to levels that would cause engine damage before sending a trouble code or CEL. If I am running so dangerously lean then why have I not had any trouble. I have been driving in a wide variety of conditions. From 80 degrees to 20 degrees whether, long periods crusing at interstate speeds, long periods in stop and go traffic and everything from drags from a dead stop to 30 and 60mph drags to top speed. I am getting one thing here another thing there and seeing something else first hand. ?????

 

Big Orange, do yourself a favor and call Mike over the phone, he will be glad to help you.

 

Big O,

My friend, I've already politely tried telling you before, you really need to call us about this, it's just too detailed to go over here.

I'm happy to help you, but please, to go over all these details, we need to do that by phone.