Originally Posted by beechkid

I'm getting ready to travel again, but, anyone who desires year by year verification, manufacturer by manufacturer can go to www.helminc.com, they have an online service which allows users to access any (well almost any) oem service manual online, page by page for each specific vehicle. While the recommended product names/suppliers differ, there is no oem (that I am aware of) that recommends using claybar for removal of any chemical or environmental contaminents during the last decade to the present, because of the residual contamination (which leads to further paint damage).

For those that have called me "every name under the sun" and implied that I would never have such a document, I hope that you will at least consider this.....
1. At no time did I send insults to anyone
2. I stated that I had docs to support my opinion & experience, I submitted such (one sample of many)
3. I appreciate the assistance of posting the doc.
4. It is difficult (at best) from my own experience, to find any industry certified automotive detailer (and I'm not referring to a "wax/detailing" retail manufacturer who may have a detailing course) who uses claybar for the purposes of this stated discussion (there are real uses for claybar, but not for chemical & environmental contaminents which covers 99% of finished paint maintenance issues)

I enjoy speaking with enthusiests who have differences of opinion, as I enjoy sharing and learning both new & old techniques regarding the variety of paint finishes that have been used throughout the decades (my fingers still ache from when my father painted the dash of his 32 coupe with 40 coats of lacquer- of which at age 11, I got to wet sand and rub out every 10 coats).

For those who were excessively verbal (with the posted and private name calling), I hope you have a change of heart and appreciation of a difference of view.

Originally Posted by RollingRock

In light of your post, I will retract "some" of my comments and apologize for calling you out. I appluad you coming back to this thread to air out the comments. But as GLC points out, the document does bring up a good point...it doesn't say not to use a clay bar but points out that a clay bar won't remove the contaminates entirely, I think we can all agree on that. However, you posted originally that the manuals say not to use a clay bar on the surface so my recommendation when you post comments like that, make sure you have the caveat of "clay bars do not remove all" only the top portion, which again, I think we can agree on by looking at the doc supplied.

The point of the forum is to bring together and share ideas of "best practices" and the learnings of those with experience...when you drop posts without the clarification of facts it can frustrating. Many readers and weekend warriors live and die by these forums trusting what they read from the "elders". Readers also have to filter out the noise which can happen when you have this many people on a board with so many different ways to skin cats.

Off my soap box now.

Originally Posted by glc

The point is, that document does not say that you *SHOULD NOT* use a claybar. It merely says that it will not remove all the contaminants. Yes, we all have differences of opinion and can learn from each other, but you are extending this to imply that use of a claybar will harm your paint. This is NOT a fact. A claybar is a lot safer in the hands of a non-professional than any harsh chemicals.

I was apprehensive about clay when I first heard about it. All I knew was my old school single stage techniques. I still don't like the idea of using it on single stage, but now that I've used it on clear, I'm satisfied with its value in doing a decent detailing job. If I needed a *restoration* job, I'd take it to a pro that has the best chemicals for the job, and the experience in using them.

Originally Posted by ju015dd

burn

Originally Posted by f-150sport03

Well, first off, Damn! RR beat me to it... (I was at a STUPID Structure fire...another story altogether... Freaking telephone poles...)

Anyway, I will agree 110% with Rolling Rock in what he has said so far.

ALSO-- Beachkid-- if you want to play the "dredge up an old post and copy+paste it" game, I suggest you reread my previos response to the SAME exact post you had. My answer hasnt changed one bit. (except for the typo, which can be changed if you like...)

One thing I want to re-emphasize is that you need to back up your posts with facts-- I have the same truck more or less-- same body style. Thus, my manual is virtually identical, and it says that CLAYING IS BENEFICIAL. (granted, they want you to buy from FMC or pay them to do it...

To the OP-- Like RR already said, do NOT listen to this crazy kid. Listen to the PROFESSIONALS. (and please have a read of the sticky if you havent already) we know what we are talking about, and often put our reputations on the line doing what we post about here.

Beechkid-- before you post again, PLEASE have some FACTS and sources. As of yet, I have seen nothing that you have posted that is worth while.

*end of rant*

Originally Posted by ju015dd

Originally Posted by glc

That does not tell you IN ANY WAY that you should not use clay. It only says that clay does not completely remove contaminants. It also says that color sanding, buffing, or compounding won't completely remove them either. It also says that Ford doesn't recommend the use of acid washes either.

RR, I think that is in fact out of an old Ford body service manual. Ford is just recommending Finish Care Inc. as a vendor for those decontamination chemicals. I can't find any info online about that company.

Originally Posted by hwm3

Crap. How many times did you have to post that?