Bedliner Question
#16
12-18-2007, 09:25 AM
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As someone said, it IS a highly personal choice with lots of opinions thrown around here. What really turned me off about spray-ins is that they first have to sand down the paint inside the bed. Just the thought of that on my brand new truck didn't sit well (though I know it would all be OK in the end). That's one of the main reasons I chose Dualiner.
Someone else also commented on the fit and I can attest that it does fit so well, it almost looks like it's sprayed in.
Someone else also commented on the fit and I can attest that it does fit so well, it almost looks like it's sprayed in.
#17
12-18-2007, 09:38 AM
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#18
12-18-2007, 10:23 AM
Everyone has their own opinion and there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone is right in their own mind and there's nothing wrong with that either. It's nice to be able to share opinions and ideas.
All of these bedliner products have their pros and cons. I'm sure the Dualiner functions well. I would say, and this is just my opinion, that the biggest problem I would have owning a Dualiner is the look. I don't think it looks that nice; plasic like a drop-in with a rubber bedmat. Now, if I had a truck that was just a work truck, I don't think looks would be important. But, if I had a nice truck and wanted it to look sharp, I don't think I would choose a Dualiner.
Bryndon, I do have a suggestion. I think that anything you could do to the Dualiner that would separate it from a regular drop-in bedliner would be a good idea. I suggest you remove the Dualiner name from the bulkhead and place it somewhere else, like maybe the side rear. Just about all drop-in bedliners have their name across the front and I bet you don't want people to think it's just another plastic drop-in bedliner.
All of these bedliner products have their pros and cons. I'm sure the Dualiner functions well. I would say, and this is just my opinion, that the biggest problem I would have owning a Dualiner is the look. I don't think it looks that nice; plasic like a drop-in with a rubber bedmat. Now, if I had a truck that was just a work truck, I don't think looks would be important. But, if I had a nice truck and wanted it to look sharp, I don't think I would choose a Dualiner.
Bryndon, I do have a suggestion. I think that anything you could do to the Dualiner that would separate it from a regular drop-in bedliner would be a good idea. I suggest you remove the Dualiner name from the bulkhead and place it somewhere else, like maybe the side rear. Just about all drop-in bedliners have their name across the front and I bet you don't want people to think it's just another plastic drop-in bedliner.
#19
12-18-2007, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by TruckGasm
Bryndon, I do have a suggestion. I think that anything you could do to the Dualiner that would separate it from a regular drop-in bedliner would be a good idea. I suggest you remove the Dualiner name from the bulkhead and place it somewhere else, like maybe the side rear. Just about all drop-in bedliners have their name across the front and I bet you don't want people to think it's just another plastic drop-in bedliner.
#20
12-19-2007, 05:46 AM
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[QUOTE=The_Beast]
So which is it?
I say yes water does indeed collect, even if it's in condensation form, between plastic bed liner parts and painted parts. This is obvious since water is present long enough to cause some rust damage in the case of drop-ins. After such time as the painted surfaces have been scuffed sufficiently by the shifting liner, well, we have rust, or if caught in time, the potential for rust.
I think this has been well established.
The absolute best choice for bed protection would be a well applied spray-in topped off by a DualLiner, but then.............
Again, I like the DualLiner okay. I think the price is a little steep for what one gets. One can pick up a drop-in for $150, and given that they are produced in a multi-stage thermoforming process, the smaller components of the DualLiner system should be able to be produced even more cheaply, perhaps even in a single stage molding process requiring much smaller forming equipment. Additionally, I like the suggestion about removing the company logo from the front panel and moving it toward the side rear. In its place, since the systems are custom fit, you could have FORD, or whatever, in its place.
One question I do have about the DualLiner is does one see, after a time, ANY signs of wear to the bed's original finish from the system components? I would think you would. That could be a cause of some concern, and would prompt me to disassemble the system, perhaps once a year, to inspect the bed for signs of potential problems. Granted, I would think any signs of wear would be greatly reduced as compared to those produced by a drop-in, but what we have are component parts connected to and resting on the original finish.
So.............
Yes water will get under any drop in or even the DualLiner but it is of no consideration.
So water can't collect underneath either the DualLiner or a standard drop-in.
I say yes water does indeed collect, even if it's in condensation form, between plastic bed liner parts and painted parts. This is obvious since water is present long enough to cause some rust damage in the case of drop-ins. After such time as the painted surfaces have been scuffed sufficiently by the shifting liner, well, we have rust, or if caught in time, the potential for rust.
I think this has been well established.
Now with that in mind how could the DualLiner not be the top choice for bed protection.
I have been in the after market truck accessory business here at the same location for nearly 20 years and have seen/sold nearly everything including spray-ins (sold them for 2 years) and the DualLiner is definitely the best thing I have come across.
One question I do have about the DualLiner is does one see, after a time, ANY signs of wear to the bed's original finish from the system components? I would think you would. That could be a cause of some concern, and would prompt me to disassemble the system, perhaps once a year, to inspect the bed for signs of potential problems. Granted, I would think any signs of wear would be greatly reduced as compared to those produced by a drop-in, but what we have are component parts connected to and resting on the original finish.
So.............
#21
12-19-2007, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by F150BQ
Just my opinion here...I could be wrong...
Of course water gets under the bed mat on a DualLiner! It probably runs right under at the tailgate. But, so what? Just like it finds it's way in, it finds it's way out...or as air moves in and out as you drive down the highway it dries that water out. The beds are ribbed and a bed mat doesn't fit exactly down in every valley, so water gets in, water gets out...air gets in, air gets out. No biggie. If you had nothing in your bed at all but factory paint and water gets on it, that doesn't mean it's going to rust. It blows out or it dries. It's fine.
I think that rust/corrosion gets started when a hard plastic bedliner "moves around" on your paint and wears it from vibration. When a plastic bedliner isn't molded well to fit real tight/exact, there's more movement from vibration...hence wearing the paint. Good drop-ins don't really do that much though. Rubber bed mats, most definitely, don't move around and aren't abrasive to the paint. Now, if debris gets under them it can be...but that's the cool thing about a rubber floor - Yank it out and clean under it when you wash your truck.
I've been in the truck accessory business about 10 years now...have sold a lot of bedliners...but I can assure you that for MY TRUCK, it would be a DualLiner hands down. I've seen they way the side panels and headwall fits first hand, and let me tell you...it's molded so well that it looks like a spray-on, no joke. Molding three different pieces instead of one big bowl (like a drop-in bedliner) let's them do that. A regular drop-in generally has weak spots in the corners from the thermoforming process that, depending on how the hot plastic is controlled while cooling, can create "not so perfect" shapes and funkiness. The DualLiner is spot on.
Spray-on liners have their place...and they look really good. But I have always felt that for folks that really use their truck bed for a truck bed, spray-ons don't offer the same level of protection. Take a truck with a DualLiner and throw a cinder block into the back of it. If it hits the sidewall or headwall, no problem...it if hits that rubber floor, no problem...now take the cinder block and do the same thing on a truck bed with a spray-on. Let me know how that works out for ya...once you get done cussing from the chipped material, the big scratch, the dent, whatever...of course they'll re-spray it, but who wants that hassle? I just don't care for the spray-on concept.
Of course water gets under the bed mat on a DualLiner! It probably runs right under at the tailgate. But, so what? Just like it finds it's way in, it finds it's way out...or as air moves in and out as you drive down the highway it dries that water out. The beds are ribbed and a bed mat doesn't fit exactly down in every valley, so water gets in, water gets out...air gets in, air gets out. No biggie. If you had nothing in your bed at all but factory paint and water gets on it, that doesn't mean it's going to rust. It blows out or it dries. It's fine.
I think that rust/corrosion gets started when a hard plastic bedliner "moves around" on your paint and wears it from vibration. When a plastic bedliner isn't molded well to fit real tight/exact, there's more movement from vibration...hence wearing the paint. Good drop-ins don't really do that much though. Rubber bed mats, most definitely, don't move around and aren't abrasive to the paint. Now, if debris gets under them it can be...but that's the cool thing about a rubber floor - Yank it out and clean under it when you wash your truck.
I've been in the truck accessory business about 10 years now...have sold a lot of bedliners...but I can assure you that for MY TRUCK, it would be a DualLiner hands down. I've seen they way the side panels and headwall fits first hand, and let me tell you...it's molded so well that it looks like a spray-on, no joke. Molding three different pieces instead of one big bowl (like a drop-in bedliner) let's them do that. A regular drop-in generally has weak spots in the corners from the thermoforming process that, depending on how the hot plastic is controlled while cooling, can create "not so perfect" shapes and funkiness. The DualLiner is spot on.
Spray-on liners have their place...and they look really good. But I have always felt that for folks that really use their truck bed for a truck bed, spray-ons don't offer the same level of protection. Take a truck with a DualLiner and throw a cinder block into the back of it. If it hits the sidewall or headwall, no problem...it if hits that rubber floor, no problem...now take the cinder block and do the same thing on a truck bed with a spray-on. Let me know how that works out for ya...once you get done cussing from the chipped material, the big scratch, the dent, whatever...of course they'll re-spray it, but who wants that hassle? I just don't care for the spray-on concept.
The water drains out of the bed, just like the factory designed it to.
In other posts, I've laid this out, but here's a brief description -
If water on the paint will automatically cause rust, you better spray in liner your entire truck - after all the water gets on it all the time. The key is not keeping the water off, it IS keeping the factory paint intact. If the factory paint protects you from rust on the outside (and underside) of the truck, why is it not good enough, when protected properly, to protect your bed.
Basically, the argument you have to buy for sprays is that 1) the factory paint is good enough for the outside of the truck, but not the bed BUT 2) the factory paint is good enough as a base coat for the spray liner. Pretty contradictory concepts if you understand paints and coatings - I worked in metal fabrication for 20+ years - I have a prettty darned solid understanding of paints - both automotive and industrial and powdercoating.
#22
12-19-2007, 10:57 AM
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[QUOTE=dixieF150scab]
So which is it?
I say yes water does indeed collect, even if it's in condensation form, between plastic bed liner parts and painted parts. This is obvious since water is present long enough to cause some rust damage in the case of drop-ins. After such time as the painted surfaces have been scuffed sufficiently by the shifting liner, well, we have rust, or if caught in time, the potential for rust.
I think this has been well established.
The absolute best choice for bed protection would be a well applied spray-in topped off by a DualLiner, but then.............
Again, I like the DualLiner okay. I think the price is a little steep for what one gets. One can pick up a drop-in for $150, and given that they are produced in a multi-stage thermoforming process, the smaller components of the DualLiner system should be able to be produced even more cheaply, perhaps even in a single stage molding process requiring much smaller forming equipment. Additionally, I like the suggestion about removing the company logo from the front panel and moving it toward the side rear. In its place, since the systems are custom fit, you could have FORD, or whatever, in its place.
One question I do have about the DualLiner is does one see, after a time, ANY signs of wear to the bed's original finish from the system components? I would think you would. That could be a cause of some concern, and would prompt me to disassemble the system, perhaps once a year, to inspect the bed for signs of potential problems. Granted, I would think any signs of wear would be greatly reduced as compared to those produced by a drop-in, but what we have are component parts connected to and resting on the original finish.
So.............
It is both, water runs behind, but does not collect. As I said in the last post, protect the paint, no rust.
It's actually funny how many people say they think our product should be cheaper than a drop in - although a lot more think it through to the next level. The multiple pieces require considerably more engineering than a "bucket". They also require more machine time. And robot trimming - most drops are hand trimmed while the next one is forming. It's easy to talk about price, but looking at the reality of it, it is a different game.
You asked earlier about "cutting" the mat when dropping blocks. The picture on our home page - www.DualLiner.com - is my show truck, 2 weeks before the SEMA Show 2 years ago. Same truck, same liner was on the floor. There were 24 20# landscaping blocks dropped about 5' - repeatedly, about 20 times. There was no damage. None. Zippo. Nada. Try that with a spray in. And 2 years and 100,000 hard miles later, no signs of damage.
When you talk about price, what is an inferior product worth? What would you pay for a new truck battery with 5 (not 6) good cells?
Truckgasm - I thought about moving the name, but when you brand label (several deals are about to break), the people you label for want their name big and bold. Look at Rolling Rock's truck - would the King Ranch logo look better anywhere but front and center?
As for looks - well, at the SEMA show and everywhere else, when people approach that don't know what it is... well, they all want to know what brand of spray in it is. Have you ever looked at one, up close and personal?
In my personal history with bedliners, that was the only thing the sprays had going - the look... well, most of them, I've seen some pretty poor looking sprays right out of the booth.
Originally Posted by The_Beast
So which is it?
I say yes water does indeed collect, even if it's in condensation form, between plastic bed liner parts and painted parts. This is obvious since water is present long enough to cause some rust damage in the case of drop-ins. After such time as the painted surfaces have been scuffed sufficiently by the shifting liner, well, we have rust, or if caught in time, the potential for rust.
I think this has been well established.
The absolute best choice for bed protection would be a well applied spray-in topped off by a DualLiner, but then.............
Again, I like the DualLiner okay. I think the price is a little steep for what one gets. One can pick up a drop-in for $150, and given that they are produced in a multi-stage thermoforming process, the smaller components of the DualLiner system should be able to be produced even more cheaply, perhaps even in a single stage molding process requiring much smaller forming equipment. Additionally, I like the suggestion about removing the company logo from the front panel and moving it toward the side rear. In its place, since the systems are custom fit, you could have FORD, or whatever, in its place.
One question I do have about the DualLiner is does one see, after a time, ANY signs of wear to the bed's original finish from the system components? I would think you would. That could be a cause of some concern, and would prompt me to disassemble the system, perhaps once a year, to inspect the bed for signs of potential problems. Granted, I would think any signs of wear would be greatly reduced as compared to those produced by a drop-in, but what we have are component parts connected to and resting on the original finish.
So.............
It's actually funny how many people say they think our product should be cheaper than a drop in - although a lot more think it through to the next level. The multiple pieces require considerably more engineering than a "bucket". They also require more machine time. And robot trimming - most drops are hand trimmed while the next one is forming. It's easy to talk about price, but looking at the reality of it, it is a different game.
You asked earlier about "cutting" the mat when dropping blocks. The picture on our home page - www.DualLiner.com - is my show truck, 2 weeks before the SEMA Show 2 years ago. Same truck, same liner was on the floor. There were 24 20# landscaping blocks dropped about 5' - repeatedly, about 20 times. There was no damage. None. Zippo. Nada. Try that with a spray in. And 2 years and 100,000 hard miles later, no signs of damage.
When you talk about price, what is an inferior product worth? What would you pay for a new truck battery with 5 (not 6) good cells?
Truckgasm - I thought about moving the name, but when you brand label (several deals are about to break), the people you label for want their name big and bold. Look at Rolling Rock's truck - would the King Ranch logo look better anywhere but front and center?
As for looks - well, at the SEMA show and everywhere else, when people approach that don't know what it is... well, they all want to know what brand of spray in it is. Have you ever looked at one, up close and personal?
In my personal history with bedliners, that was the only thing the sprays had going - the look... well, most of them, I've seen some pretty poor looking sprays right out of the booth.
#23
12-19-2007, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Yes water will get under any drop in or even the DualLiner but it is of no consideration.
Quote:
So water can't collect underneath either the DualLiner or a standard drop-in.
So which is it?
Yes water will get under any drop in or even the DualLiner but it is of no consideration.
Quote:
So water can't collect underneath either the DualLiner or a standard drop-in.
So which is it?
Come to think of it I would want some moisture under a drop-in liner to act as a lubricant to allow the liner to move more freely and do less damage the water also cleans out the dust as it goes through and out the drain holes.
Even though I do sell bed protection, in the 2 trucks I have that I do the most work with and hauling whatever I want to throw in it. In one there is nothing 1988 Dodge D50 no rust at all some dents but the paint has held up well, and the other only has a bedmat 2006 Silverado HD diesel use this one for everything. The factory paint is pretty tough for general applications and what 85% of the trucks on the road get used for.
#24
12-19-2007, 01:18 PM
I agree that it is really a personal choice for the most part. I just recently went though this when getting a bedliner for my '07 F150.
I use the truck for towing and light to medium duty hauling, so I went with the Bed Rug. The other choice I was considering was the Dualiner, but as TruckGasm mentioned, I do not like the way it looks.
If this was a work truck, I would have went with the Dualiner without a doubt.
I use the truck for towing and light to medium duty hauling, so I went with the Bed Rug. The other choice I was considering was the Dualiner, but as TruckGasm mentioned, I do not like the way it looks.
If this was a work truck, I would have went with the Dualiner without a doubt.
#25
12-28-2007, 07:52 PM
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