Towing questions
#46
09-07-2013, 10:14 PM
You crack me up Mike. I'm having flash backs of you praising your precious 5.0 engine.Instead of the 5.0 engine now your just trying to push a cheaper and less desirable travel trailer on to someone to justify your purchase...
I have owned fiberglass trailers for years without any issues. And for the record there isn't anything better than the look of a freshly cleaned and waxed fiberglass sided trailer!!
Some posts of mine on other forums, below, stating why laminate fiberglass trailers are inferior to stick and tin.
Also if you must go with a laminate build, stay away from laminated floors and roofs as they are more prone to failure from lack of structure.
You'll also want a crowned roof, stay away from flat roofs.
I do not like their ultralight laminated trailers or any laminated trailers as they are more prone to problems with delamination even if exotic backers are used instead of luan.
The Glue can break down when the exterior skin is heated by the sun on hot days or cold from the outside conducting through the aluminum metal framing, causing 'trapped' condensation in the laminate to break down the glue. Not all delamination is from leaking seals or caulking.
If you must go with laminate, make sure there's some barrier to block the outside cold from conducting into the framing. Make sure the aluminum framing has a wood core for cabinet fastening. Make sure you get several years of delamination warranty. Make sure the type of glue they use will not break down from heat or condensation. Make sure that there is adequate studs as many laminate trailers have few internal cross members other than for window and door supports. This is especially important in the flooring but as I said I'd avoid laminated flooring like the plaque. If you must get a laminated roof, MAKE sure it's CROWNED.
You'll also want a crowned roof, stay away from flat roofs.
I do not like their ultralight laminated trailers or any laminated trailers as they are more prone to problems with delamination even if exotic backers are used instead of luan.
The Glue can break down when the exterior skin is heated by the sun on hot days or cold from the outside conducting through the aluminum metal framing, causing 'trapped' condensation in the laminate to break down the glue. Not all delamination is from leaking seals or caulking.
If you must go with laminate, make sure there's some barrier to block the outside cold from conducting into the framing. Make sure the aluminum framing has a wood core for cabinet fastening. Make sure you get several years of delamination warranty. Make sure the type of glue they use will not break down from heat or condensation. Make sure that there is adequate studs as many laminate trailers have few internal cross members other than for window and door supports. This is especially important in the flooring but as I said I'd avoid laminated flooring like the plaque. If you must get a laminated roof, MAKE sure it's CROWNED.
I stay away from lightweight travel trailers now that I have a real tow vehicle. I looked at about 5 different models and even had a deal fall through right before I signed the papers because it's shoddy lightweight build was actually falling apart on the dealers showroom! I didn't realize how bad it was until we did a walk through with everything operating. Lightweights use "GLUED" or "VACUUMED" Styrofoam around cold/hot conducting aluminum frames, onto thin substrates as luan or other eco 1/16" thin boards. That in turn is glued (or vacuumed) again to decorative board on the inside and the thin fiberglass/gelcoat sheet on the outside. Laminated sandwiched walls. NO THANK YOU.
Since I've been paying more attention to these types of campers, I've seen 2 out of 3 with delamination (wall came unglued).
Plus the aluminum framing is conductive to allow condensation on the walls on certain models. PLUS some models use the aluminum framing around the borders and only have a few internal braces for windows with no normal studs. Then you have aluminum welds which are known to be weak. Ladder makers use rivets for strength as a feature over aluminum welding.
Plus these lightweights have lighter material inside as well. Walls flex around more, cabinetry is lighter and weaker, and believe it or not, even the floors and/or roofs are laminated on some models including "JAYCO". NO WAY!
I recommend the tried and true Aluminum sided stick and tin. In fact many are made with the same studs and wall framing as large mobile homes. I have family with them and they have lasted decades if maintained. If you want a camper to last, these are the ones.
Since I've been paying more attention to these types of campers, I've seen 2 out of 3 with delamination (wall came unglued).
Plus the aluminum framing is conductive to allow condensation on the walls on certain models. PLUS some models use the aluminum framing around the borders and only have a few internal braces for windows with no normal studs. Then you have aluminum welds which are known to be weak. Ladder makers use rivets for strength as a feature over aluminum welding.
Plus these lightweights have lighter material inside as well. Walls flex around more, cabinetry is lighter and weaker, and believe it or not, even the floors and/or roofs are laminated on some models including "JAYCO". NO WAY!
I recommend the tried and true Aluminum sided stick and tin. In fact many are made with the same studs and wall framing as large mobile homes. I have family with them and they have lasted decades if maintained. If you want a camper to last, these are the ones.
Also when repair is needed from a collision or leak, stick and tin can have the aluminum 'piece' replaced. When it's taken off, you have access to the inside of the wall to repair or replace any stud. Wood and aluminum siding is very inexpensive to repair.
On the flip side the only correct way to repair a laminated wall is to replace it. There's cheap and jerry rigging ways to do it, but no place I know will warranty work that is done that way. I've talked to a lot of repair shops and the only correct way is replacement. When I was at the factory of StarCraft, they had a 22' hybrid travel trailer in there. The owner was in a wreck with a few small cracks in their side wall. Replacement was the only option. The Cost was huge. It was $4000 for the wall and $4000 for labor. The entire wall had to come off. This was at the factory who made the trailer. I don't know if I'd even feel comfortable with a dealer doing this major work. The disappointment is that this was with very minor damage. The shop foreman said if it was stick and tin, maybe $1000 tops for everything.
There's a reason why the older trailers you see on the road are stick and tin. Laminate trailers were around in the 80 and 90s, they just couldn't stay together. My Dad's old 70's Shasta was here at my house until '09 when he donated it to make room for the new Jayco trailer.
It's disappointing to me to see few 5th Wheels in stick and tin but I do see many people continuing to use their "Delaminating" trailers with the side wall filon flapping in the wind going down the road. I just make sure I'm not near when it lets loose. Many don't think it's that bad so they never fix it even though the wall is actually coming apart. It won't get better, it will just continue until the entire wall delaminates. As I said, there are jerry rig ways of trying to fix it, but they are hit and miss.
Makes no sense to me as delamination is either a maker's defect or lack of maintenance for which insurance will not cover. Hail damage on a stick and tin trailer will be covered by insurance. Yet it's only cosmetic and affects the wall none.
I have found a weight saving of around 500 lbs with laminated verses stick and tin models having the same floorplans. Hardly worth it considering you get a lower 6'6" ceiling height compared to most stick and tin trailer's 6'9" ceiling height, a weaker frame for far less payload, and usually a lot smaller fresh water tanks of around 25 gallon compared to my 84 gallon (two 42 gallon tanks).
But some do like the glossy shine of the walls or have weaker tow vehicles that demand a lighter trailer so they have their place.
But then we know how you like to cover up the little details to make your point.
Last edited by Mike Up; 09-07-2013 at 10:25 PM.
#47
09-08-2013, 12:49 AM
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Some posts of mine on other forums, below, stating why laminate fiberglass trailers are inferior to stick and tin.
For above quote, I refer to pinch rolled gluing as glued and vacuum glued as vacuumed.
Also when repair is needed from a collision or leak, stick and tin can have the aluminum 'piece' replaced. When it's taken off, you have access to the inside of the wall to repair or replace any stud. Wood and aluminum siding is very inexpensive to repair.
On the flip side the only correct way to repair a laminated wall is to replace it. There's cheap and jerry rigging ways to do it, but no place I know will warranty work that is done that way. I've talked to a lot of repair shops and the only correct way is replacement. When I was at the factory of StarCraft, they had a 22' hybrid travel trailer in there. The owner was in a wreck with a few small cracks in their side wall. Replacement was the only option. The Cost was huge. It was $4000 for the wall and $4000 for labor. The entire wall had to come off. This was at the factory who made the trailer. I don't know if I'd even feel comfortable with a dealer doing this major work. The disappointment is that this was with very minor damage. The shop foreman said if it was stick and tin, maybe $1000 tops for everything.
There's a reason why the older trailers you see on the road are stick and tin. Laminate trailers were around in the 80 and 90s, they just couldn't stay together. My Dad's old 70's Shasta was here at my house until '09 when he donated it to make room for the new Jayco trailer.
It's disappointing to me to see few 5th Wheels in stick and tin but I do see many people continuing to use their "Delaminating" trailers with the side wall filon flapping in the wind going down the road. I just make sure I'm not near when it lets loose. Many don't think it's that bad so they never fix it even though the wall is actually coming apart. It won't get better, it will just continue until the entire wall delaminates. As I said, there are jerry rig ways of trying to fix it, but they are hit and miss.
Makes no sense to me as delamination is either a maker's defect or lack of maintenance for which insurance will not cover. Hail damage on a stick and tin trailer will be covered by insurance. Yet it's only cosmetic and affects the wall none.
I have found a weight saving of around 500 lbs with laminated verses stick and tin models having the same floorplans. Hardly worth it considering you get a lower 6'6" ceiling height compared to most stick and tin trailer's 6'9" ceiling height, a weaker frame for far less payload, and usually a lot smaller fresh water tanks of around 25 gallon compared to my 84 gallon (two 42 gallon tanks).
But some do like the glossy shine of the walls or have weaker tow vehicles that demand a lighter trailer so they have their place.
But then we know how you like to cover up the little details to make your point.
Some posts of mine on other forums, below, stating why laminate fiberglass trailers are inferior to stick and tin.
For above quote, I refer to pinch rolled gluing as glued and vacuum glued as vacuumed.
Also when repair is needed from a collision or leak, stick and tin can have the aluminum 'piece' replaced. When it's taken off, you have access to the inside of the wall to repair or replace any stud. Wood and aluminum siding is very inexpensive to repair.
On the flip side the only correct way to repair a laminated wall is to replace it. There's cheap and jerry rigging ways to do it, but no place I know will warranty work that is done that way. I've talked to a lot of repair shops and the only correct way is replacement. When I was at the factory of StarCraft, they had a 22' hybrid travel trailer in there. The owner was in a wreck with a few small cracks in their side wall. Replacement was the only option. The Cost was huge. It was $4000 for the wall and $4000 for labor. The entire wall had to come off. This was at the factory who made the trailer. I don't know if I'd even feel comfortable with a dealer doing this major work. The disappointment is that this was with very minor damage. The shop foreman said if it was stick and tin, maybe $1000 tops for everything.
There's a reason why the older trailers you see on the road are stick and tin. Laminate trailers were around in the 80 and 90s, they just couldn't stay together. My Dad's old 70's Shasta was here at my house until '09 when he donated it to make room for the new Jayco trailer.
It's disappointing to me to see few 5th Wheels in stick and tin but I do see many people continuing to use their "Delaminating" trailers with the side wall filon flapping in the wind going down the road. I just make sure I'm not near when it lets loose. Many don't think it's that bad so they never fix it even though the wall is actually coming apart. It won't get better, it will just continue until the entire wall delaminates. As I said, there are jerry rig ways of trying to fix it, but they are hit and miss.
Makes no sense to me as delamination is either a maker's defect or lack of maintenance for which insurance will not cover. Hail damage on a stick and tin trailer will be covered by insurance. Yet it's only cosmetic and affects the wall none.
I have found a weight saving of around 500 lbs with laminated verses stick and tin models having the same floorplans. Hardly worth it considering you get a lower 6'6" ceiling height compared to most stick and tin trailer's 6'9" ceiling height, a weaker frame for far less payload, and usually a lot smaller fresh water tanks of around 25 gallon compared to my 84 gallon (two 42 gallon tanks).
But some do like the glossy shine of the walls or have weaker tow vehicles that demand a lighter trailer so they have their place.
But then we know how you like to cover up the little details to make your point.
I would also say that most of rv buyers prefer the glossy shine of the walls and it has nothing to do with having a weak TV.. Especially since most new heavy fifth wheels are built with the same walls..
#48
09-08-2013, 01:45 AM
#49
09-08-2013, 09:18 PM
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#50
09-08-2013, 10:06 PM
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#51
09-09-2013, 12:09 AM
We fix Laminated side walls in our shop is not all that much worse than stick and tin. Stick and tin trailers are often so rotted we have to rebuild everything to save them keep in mind they are built out of the cheapest wood around. Probably close to 90% of the delam's we get are due to owner neglect not keeping the seams sealed. None of this BS has anything to do with the OP's question. Want to slam RV's go for it I have been fixing them for 15 years every make has it's issues I have seen most of them. One issue is there are very few really good RV tech's because you have to be skilled in so many different skills that most figure out RV owners are cheap and they can make better money doing something else.
As to the OP there are lots of trailers you can tow safely but you need to watch your weight. Don't get talked into anything with more than 7k in total axle rating and try to find one with around 4k in empty weight. The problem is most ultra light units drop you down to 5200 lbs in total axle weight and weigh most of that empty so you have no payload room. Your best bet would be to order one to meet your specs and get a rear kitchen with the tanks mounted over the axles. This puts most of your weight in the back and off the hitch. That said you still need hitch weight or it will tow like crap so be balanced plan on a weight distribution hitch and sway control. When you get the trailer spend a few days in it in your back yard and see what you really need to camp in it and get rid of what you don't need. Sales people will try and talk you into tons of cool features think about them as if you had to carry them on your back to camp.
There is a term I use all the time LBT which is Lowest Bidder Technology pretty much every thing is built based on meeting price points. So skip the fluff and look for quality I won't tell you which brands I would avoid but remember my grandpa said you could polish a cow turd til it shines like a diamond but it is still a cow turd. Don't buy a shiny turd.
As to the OP there are lots of trailers you can tow safely but you need to watch your weight. Don't get talked into anything with more than 7k in total axle rating and try to find one with around 4k in empty weight. The problem is most ultra light units drop you down to 5200 lbs in total axle weight and weigh most of that empty so you have no payload room. Your best bet would be to order one to meet your specs and get a rear kitchen with the tanks mounted over the axles. This puts most of your weight in the back and off the hitch. That said you still need hitch weight or it will tow like crap so be balanced plan on a weight distribution hitch and sway control. When you get the trailer spend a few days in it in your back yard and see what you really need to camp in it and get rid of what you don't need. Sales people will try and talk you into tons of cool features think about them as if you had to carry them on your back to camp.
There is a term I use all the time LBT which is Lowest Bidder Technology pretty much every thing is built based on meeting price points. So skip the fluff and look for quality I won't tell you which brands I would avoid but remember my grandpa said you could polish a cow turd til it shines like a diamond but it is still a cow turd. Don't buy a shiny turd.
#52
09-13-2013, 01:31 AM
Ok. So I am now more confused as to what the standard hitch with a tow package but not the Max Tow package is. Class 3 or 4?
BTW I pulled the trigger and got a Jayco Flight 26BH. Weight with propane is 5031 pounds.
I will get an equalizer hitch installed. I think it should be ok but now I am concerned about whether its a class 3 or 4 hitch.
BTW I pulled the trigger and got a Jayco Flight 26BH. Weight with propane is 5031 pounds.
I will get an equalizer hitch installed. I think it should be ok but now I am concerned about whether its a class 3 or 4 hitch.
#53
09-13-2013, 01:43 AM
#54
09-13-2013, 01:57 AM
#55
09-13-2013, 09:09 AM
Senior Member
Congrats on your purchase. Don't overload it and you will be fine. Enjoy and be safe!
One thing you may want to look into is LT rated (6 ply or higher) tires for your truck. It's not a necessity, but it sure makes for a better, safer towing experience with a lot less bounce and sway.
#56
09-13-2013, 10:41 AM
#57
09-18-2013, 10:41 PM
According to the website my FX4 fully loaded does come with a tow package that includes a class IV hitch receiver.
According to the picture above it looks like its a class III. Am I correct in assuming this?
#59
09-19-2013, 01:01 AM
I went back to the Ford website and rebuilt my truck to see if any of the packages included the towing package to see if I had the additionally tranny cooler and radiator.
According to the website my FX4 fully loaded does come with a tow package that includes a class IV hitch receiver.
According to the picture above it looks like its a class III. Am I correct in assuming this?
According to the website my FX4 fully loaded does come with a tow package that includes a class IV hitch receiver.
According to the picture above it looks like its a class III. Am I correct in assuming this?
Nice choice of trailer, I couldn't had picked a better make and model.
What year is your 26BH, 2013 or 2014? Your weight is only 19 lbs lighter than mine, of course with propane filled.
Your truck came with the factory hitch receiver. That factory hitch receiver is part of the standard Tow Package. If it didn't have a factory hitch receiver, you wouldn't have the tow package. Also as I said, you have the standard tow package as the Max Tow package comes with a factory 11,500 lbs/1,150 lbs hitch receiver.
Last edited by Mike Up; 09-19-2013 at 01:12 AM.
#60
09-19-2013, 01:59 AM
That is a class 4 hitch. Class 3 hitch only goes to 5000 lbs as I posted already.
Nice choice of trailer, I couldn't had picked a better make and model.
What year is your 26BH, 2013 or 2014? Your weight is only 19 lbs lighter than mine, of course with propane filled.
Your truck came with the factory hitch receiver. That factory hitch receiver is part of the standard Tow Package. If it didn't have a factory hitch receiver, you wouldn't have the tow package. Also as I said, you have the standard tow package as the Max Tow package comes with a factory 11,500 lbs/1,150 lbs hitch receiver.
Nice choice of trailer, I couldn't had picked a better make and model.
What year is your 26BH, 2013 or 2014? Your weight is only 19 lbs lighter than mine, of course with propane filled.
Your truck came with the factory hitch receiver. That factory hitch receiver is part of the standard Tow Package. If it didn't have a factory hitch receiver, you wouldn't have the tow package. Also as I said, you have the standard tow package as the Max Tow package comes with a factory 11,500 lbs/1,150 lbs hitch receiver.
One last question. Does the standard tow package (fx4) come with the bigger rad and tranny cooler?