2013 Ram
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From: Minneapolis, MN
GM used to have coil springs in the rear of their pickups back in the 60's. They changed to leaf springs. I had to wonder what Dodge/Ram was up to when they thought they would roll that idea back out.
I do believe that Ram has decided to tone down the 1500 model to meet the needs of a lot of city type drivers that don't need the increased capacity that most of the 1/2-tons had been able to provide up to this point. If you are looking at buying a Ram truck, and the 1500 won't do what you need it to do, you will likely step up to the 2500 to get more capacity and not look at Ford/GM.
I do believe that Ram has decided to tone down the 1500 model to meet the needs of a lot of city type drivers that don't need the increased capacity that most of the 1/2-tons had been able to provide up to this point. If you are looking at buying a Ram truck, and the 1500 won't do what you need it to do, you will likely step up to the 2500 to get more capacity and not look at Ford/GM.
It's not unheard of to use coil springs and locating arms for a solid rear axle. Alot of SUVs do it. Toyota 4Runner and Land cruiser do it that way. So does the Wrangler. The 5-link in the back of the ram is just a beefed up version of the Wrangler.
And off-road guys have been doing custom 4- and 5- link rear suspension and coil-over conversions on pickup trucks for years now. It's a great way to get alot of axle articulation for real off-roading. Heck the super fancy Raptor XT trandes the leaf springs of the regular Raptor for a 5-link and coil spring setup.
There are a tone of examples of this off-road stuff over at Pirate4x4.com.
Here's one
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showp...&postcount=336
Full build thread is here
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=849283
Some crazy stuff. But Ram was in alot of ways copying this kind of movement, not some crap GM put out in the 60's
And keep in mind, not everyone uses there truck to haul tons of weight everywhere or to tow giant boats. Trucks fit into alot of different uses, that's the beauty of them. If rams are more light duty than an F150, that actually make me like it more. The F150 is overkill for my use, just like an F250 or a Ram 2500 would be ridiculous for me to drive. The F150 has been becoming more capable over the decades sure, but it pays a penalty in gaining weight over the decades as well. And that weight is really noticeable on a test drive compared to the Ram.
I think the Ford is a more solid product, but the Ram is definitely interesting, even in it's 2012 format
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From: Minneapolis, MN
My argument is not everyone buys a truck to tow with. That's certainly not why I am looking at a truck.
The SUVs and Rockcrawlers were examples of suspension design.
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From: Linn, MO
True. But some people do. You have to build a truck to handle whatever will be thrown at it, and I would venture more people tow with their truck than hard-core off-road.
As are McPherson struts. What's good for a rockcrawler or SUV is not necessarily good for a pickup? It's not necessarily bad either, but they are two different worlds, and what works for one doesn't always work for another.
As are McPherson struts. What's good for a rockcrawler or SUV is not necessarily good for a pickup? It's not necessarily bad either, but they are two different worlds, and what works for one doesn't always work for another.
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From: Minneapolis, MN
True. But some people do. You have to build a truck to handle whatever will be thrown at it, and I would venture more people tow with their truck than hard-core off-road.
As are McPherson struts. What's good for a rockcrawler or SUV is not necessarily good for a pickup? It's not necessarily bad either, but they are two different worlds, and what works for one doesn't always work for another.
As are McPherson struts. What's good for a rockcrawler or SUV is not necessarily good for a pickup? It's not necessarily bad either, but they are two different worlds, and what works for one doesn't always work for another.
We're talking about 1/2 ton trucks that'll spend most of their life on commuter duty. I'd gladly give up some payload and towing capacity for greater axle articulation and better ride quality. The five link and coils is just a superior design unless you're going for maximum capability. Which in my opinion should be the realm of 3/4 ton trucks, not little 1/2 tons.
Maybe Ford should start offering light duty and heavy duty half tons? They used to, remember the old F100's were light duty, and the F150 were heavy duty half tons.
That being said, I am closer to an F150 now than a Ram in my buying decision. I just wish Ford had the 5-link coil spring rear suspension!
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Linn, MO
It sounds to me like you don't care about anything other than towing capacity and payload. If we were talking about 3/4 ton or 1 ton trucks I would totally agree with you. We're not.
We're talking about 1/2 ton trucks that'll spend most of their life on commuter duty. I'd gladly give up some payload and towing capacity for greater axle articulation and better ride quality. The five link and coils is just a superior design unless you're going for maximum capability. Which in my opinion should be the realm of 3/4 ton trucks, not little 1/2 tons.
Maybe Ford should start offering light duty and heavy duty half tons? They used to, remember the old F100's were light duty, and the F150 were heavy duty half tons.
That being said, I am closer to an F150 now than a Ram in my buying decision. I just wish Ford had the 5-link coil spring rear suspension!
We're talking about 1/2 ton trucks that'll spend most of their life on commuter duty. I'd gladly give up some payload and towing capacity for greater axle articulation and better ride quality. The five link and coils is just a superior design unless you're going for maximum capability. Which in my opinion should be the realm of 3/4 ton trucks, not little 1/2 tons.
Maybe Ford should start offering light duty and heavy duty half tons? They used to, remember the old F100's were light duty, and the F150 were heavy duty half tons.
That being said, I am closer to an F150 now than a Ram in my buying decision. I just wish Ford had the 5-link coil spring rear suspension!
What I am saying is that building a truck is a compromise. You sometimes have to compromise one thing for another. Building a truck to focus on off-roading will hurt towing and hauling (see Raptor with a lower tow rating than a standard F150). Building a truck to focus on towing and hauling will hurt off-roading some.
So, pretend you are Ford. Do more people tow, or off-road? Where would you put your focus? You put your focus on what will net you the most buyers. Then you throw in the Raptor for the toy!
And, an F150 will handle all the off-roading that non-hard-core users will see, and will most-likely hold it's own the Ram. However, the Ram can't tow with the F150 due to it's suspension.
Last edited by fordmantpw; Apr 24, 2012 at 03:54 PM.
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It sounds to me like you don't care about anything other than towing capacity and payload. If we were talking about 3/4 ton or 1 ton trucks I would totally agree with you. We're not.
so i should have to go to a 3/4 ton which gets way worse gas mileage to tow my trailer because nancy wants a truck look but a smoothER ride? so now everyone else suffers because people can't handle the smooth ride of leaf springs in the rear on modern trucks? They have come a LONG way in ride quality in just the past 10 years alone.
We're talking about 1/2 ton trucks that'll spend most of their life on commuter duty. I'd gladly give up some payload and towing capacity for greater axle articulation and better ride quality. The five link and coils is just a superior design unless you're going for maximum capability. Which in my opinion should be the realm of 3/4 ton trucks, not little 1/2 tons.
for ride quality, why not just put IRS in the rear. When are you going to need THAT much articulation? if you are flexed enough where you are on bump stops in a 1/2 ton truck you are probably about as far as you need to be. a 1/2 ton truck is not any where close to being the ideal vehicle for articulation w/ out some serious $$$$$ dumped into it
Maybe Ford should start offering light duty and heavy duty half tons? They used to, remember the old F100's were light duty, and the F150 were heavy duty half tons.
why? the ranger held the "light duty" position. If you want a lighter duty truck go buy a tacoma, frontier, colorado, etc. Ford does offer a HD package, so in reality 99% of the f150's on the road are the "light duties"
That being said, I am closer to an F150 now than a Ram in my buying decision. I just wish Ford had the 5-link coil spring rear suspension!
Other than saying hey brah, my truck has a 5 link whats yours have? there is no great advantage other than soccer mom being happy she can listen to brittney spears while driving a truck with a car like ride
so i should have to go to a 3/4 ton which gets way worse gas mileage to tow my trailer because nancy wants a truck look but a smoothER ride? so now everyone else suffers because people can't handle the smooth ride of leaf springs in the rear on modern trucks? They have come a LONG way in ride quality in just the past 10 years alone.
We're talking about 1/2 ton trucks that'll spend most of their life on commuter duty. I'd gladly give up some payload and towing capacity for greater axle articulation and better ride quality. The five link and coils is just a superior design unless you're going for maximum capability. Which in my opinion should be the realm of 3/4 ton trucks, not little 1/2 tons.
for ride quality, why not just put IRS in the rear. When are you going to need THAT much articulation? if you are flexed enough where you are on bump stops in a 1/2 ton truck you are probably about as far as you need to be. a 1/2 ton truck is not any where close to being the ideal vehicle for articulation w/ out some serious $$$$$ dumped into it
Maybe Ford should start offering light duty and heavy duty half tons? They used to, remember the old F100's were light duty, and the F150 were heavy duty half tons.
why? the ranger held the "light duty" position. If you want a lighter duty truck go buy a tacoma, frontier, colorado, etc. Ford does offer a HD package, so in reality 99% of the f150's on the road are the "light duties"
That being said, I am closer to an F150 now than a Ram in my buying decision. I just wish Ford had the 5-link coil spring rear suspension!
Other than saying hey brah, my truck has a 5 link whats yours have? there is no great advantage other than soccer mom being happy she can listen to brittney spears while driving a truck with a car like ride
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Note to self: Your truck and hitch hate you. Get a fifth-wheel hitch installed. :o
Last edited by firemachine69; Apr 24, 2012 at 05:55 PM.
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From: Minneapolis, MN
You put your focus on what will net you the most buyers. Then you throw in the Raptor for the toy!
And, an F150 will handle all the off-roading that non-hard-core users will see, and will most-likely hold it's own the Ram. However, the Ram can't tow with the F150 due to it's suspension.
And, an F150 will handle all the off-roading that non-hard-core users will see, and will most-likely hold it's own the Ram. However, the Ram can't tow with the F150 due to it's suspension.
They should make a compromise, without the luxury features of the Raptor, but with the extended cab 5.5' bed. make it an STX trim level, that'd be perfect.
Anyway, you're coming off sounding like a Ford fanboy. Which is kinda understandable in a Ford forum. But it's good to recognize what your competitors do better, so that you can learn from their triumphs and their mistakes. Not just defend the arhaic leaf spring design blindly. And yes, the Ram rides noticeably better.
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You both a doing a good job of avoiding Kytann's very valid point. I whole heartey agree with him that dodge's rear coil design was not an entirely stupid idea. Coils ride better than leafs. U cannot argue that. Just as Kytann says most trucks nowadays probably never even come close to their payload capacity during their life time because......... People dont use them for more than hauling a few odds and ends every once and a while. Keep avoiding his point if it helps u stroke ur masculinity but its the truth. You two may put your trucks through its paces as do I but we are the minority
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From: Minneapolis, MN
so i should have to go to a 3/4 ton which gets way worse gas mileage to tow my trailer because nancy wants a truck look but a smoothER ride? so now everyone else suffers because people can't handle the smooth ride of leaf springs in the rear on modern trucks? They have come a LONG way in ride quality in just the past 10 years alone.
for ride quality, why not just put IRS in the rear. When are you going to need THAT much articulation? if you are flexed enough where you are on bump stops in a 1/2 ton truck you are probably about as far as you need to be. a 1/2 ton truck is not any where close to being the ideal vehicle for articulation w/ out some serious $$$$$ dumped into it
why? the ranger held the "light duty" position. If you want a lighter duty truck go buy a tacoma, frontier, colorado, etc. Ford does offer a HD package, so in reality 99% of the f150's on the road are the "light duties"
My last truck was a Tacoma. Capability wise that's really all I need. However they are TINY inside. And get the same gas mileage as a full size. I'm looking at full size because I am tired of the tiny interior size of the Tacomas.
Other than saying hey brah, my truck has a 5 link whats yours have? there is no great advantage other than soccer mom being happy she can listen to brittney spears while driving a truck with a car like ride
Whatever.
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From: Minneapolis, MN
You both a doing a good job of avoiding Kytann's very valid point. I whole heartey agree with him that dodge's rear coil design was not an entirely stupid idea. Coils ride better than leafs. U cannot argue that. Just as Kytann says most trucks nowadays probably never even come close to their payload capacity during their life time because......... People dont use them for more than hauling a few odds and ends every once and a while. Keep avoiding his point if it helps u stroke ur masculinity but its the truth. You two may put your trucks through its paces as do I but we are the minority
Ideally I'd like to have the 5-link rear in the ford. And probably the Ram dashboard. I'll keep the Ford seats, as they are nicer.
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Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Linn, MO
You both a doing a good job of avoiding Kytann's very valid point. I whole heartey agree with him that dodge's rear coil design was not an entirely stupid idea. Coils ride better than leafs. U cannot argue that. Just as Kytann says most trucks nowadays probably never even come close to their payload capacity during their life time because......... People dont use them for more than hauling a few odds and ends every once and a while. Keep avoiding his point if it helps u stroke ur masculinity but its the truth. You two may put your trucks through its paces as do I but we are the minority
I'm not stroking any masculinity. Just stating fact. And, as I've told him in his thread, if he doesn't feel that the Ford has a value of $3500 more than the Ram for HIM, then go by the Ram.
If you want a rock crawler, buy a Jeep. If you want a half-ton to tow, buy a Ford. If you want a half-ton with the best fuel economy, buy a Ford. If you want a half-ton for longevity and holding it's resale value, buy a Ford. If you want a half-ton for any other reason, test drive them all and buy what you like the best. Plain and simple.
Am I a Ford fanboy? Sure, but I also look at things objectively. Like my comment about the Ram door handle when I looked at one. It felt like it would fall off in my hand, and that's just getting started. I honestly think, overall, that Ford makes the best all-around truck for the money. Does Chevy do some things better? Sure. Does Ram? Sure. But overall, for the best all-around truck for the money, you just can't beat a Ford.
Kytann just seems to have his panties in a bind for some reason. He likes the Ram's rear-end, but he doesn't want to buy a Ram, even though it's cheaper, because he knows the Ford is better overall, but he's upset because the Ford doesn't have the Ram suspension, and he feels the Ram interior is slightly better on the lower-end model. He sees two areas where the Ram is better in his eyes, and he is upset that he has to compromise a bit to get what he wants. He wants us to convince him to buy a Ford, but when we try, he just touts that the Ram's suspension is better (for him). WTH are we to do?
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But the difference between the two suspension is extremely noticeable on a test drive. Extremely.
From what i get you want a car or smooth riding suv, if you need a truck bed use a trailer. That seems like that's the only way you will be happy
IRS in the rear would be awesome. Put in the Expedition's IRS. That SUV has pretty respectable towing and payload capacities already. Just slightly less than the F150 if I remember correctly.
but now we don't have the articulation are you so proud of. Honda ridgeline has what you want, if they even still make them
Back in the day there were also F250s and F350s, in addition to the F100s and F150s.
and now (not in 2013) there are rangers, f150's, f250's, f350's and f450's.
My last truck was a Tacoma. Capability wise that's really all I need. However they are TINY inside. And get the same gas mileage as a full size. I'm looking at full size because I am tired of the tiny interior size of the Tacomas.
get a honda ridgeline. Larger than a tacoma and seems to fit what you are wanting
Wow. I thought this was supposed to be a constructive discussion?
Whatever.
are you a soccer mom who listens to brittney spears? if not it didn't apply directly to you. But since you took it as an insult, it makes me wonder if you really do like brittney spears
From what i get you want a car or smooth riding suv, if you need a truck bed use a trailer. That seems like that's the only way you will be happy
IRS in the rear would be awesome. Put in the Expedition's IRS. That SUV has pretty respectable towing and payload capacities already. Just slightly less than the F150 if I remember correctly.
but now we don't have the articulation are you so proud of. Honda ridgeline has what you want, if they even still make them
Back in the day there were also F250s and F350s, in addition to the F100s and F150s.
and now (not in 2013) there are rangers, f150's, f250's, f350's and f450's.
My last truck was a Tacoma. Capability wise that's really all I need. However they are TINY inside. And get the same gas mileage as a full size. I'm looking at full size because I am tired of the tiny interior size of the Tacomas.
get a honda ridgeline. Larger than a tacoma and seems to fit what you are wanting
Wow. I thought this was supposed to be a constructive discussion?
Whatever.
are you a soccer mom who listens to brittney spears? if not it didn't apply directly to you. But since you took it as an insult, it makes me wonder if you really do like brittney spears
