Why is ford dumping the limited slip options?
 

I don't like the fact that I am forced to configure a 2012 F150 with either an open rear end, or an elocker. The limited slip options are over $2000 to select! What nonsense is that? I love having a limited slip as it works at any speed... Is the same true for the elocker?

They did the same on their Super Duty. They feel their brake traction control is good enough for the open differentials and the Elocker when it's functioning as an open differential in 2WD or 4WD, none egaged mode. They are offering the Elocker on 2WD models which can be helpful in a couple instances but a LSD is much more beneficial with instantaneous, automatic engagement for 2WD. For 4WD, an Elocker is best. They are now offering this with 3.55 and 3.73 ratios as a standard option in place of the previous LSD. This is really beneficial for 4WD and the brake traction control (1 wheel slip) should fill in adequately as the replacement for the mechanical limited slip differential.

I agree, the LSD is better than brake traction control (one wheel spin) and better than the E-Locker in instanteous wheel spin conditions. However in 'known' deep snow, deep mud, deep sand, situations, the E-Locker will be better when you have the knowledge that it will be needed and will be able to engage it before there is wheel slip. Hopefully the brake traction control (1 wheel slip) will fill in adequately for a mechanical limited slip differential. I really think this is better for the most part and is a good move by Ford.

The 3.73 LS axle is the HD axle now, for the HD package.

I don't think it's cost cutting, just trying to offer something the competition doesn't. That being an E-Locker on all 2WD and 4WD models, along with brake traction control ('electronic' limited slip).

The elocker has been working in the raptor line up so now its time for the other models to get it.....its just going to be something new to get used to.......

Well screw that! Guess I will stick to my 2010 5.4 with 3.55LS and supercharge it rather than trade in for the eco

I wouldn't trade for Eco anyhow. The 5.4L is a great engine and the truck is great itself. I wouldn't want to be one who was working through the new problems they have with these trucks. I really like my truck.

I think it is awesome. The LS in my FX4 works like crap anyway, clutch packs wear out, inconsistent operation, etc. This probably just pushed me into a 2012.

you can always add a LS after buying the truck

X2
A Detroit True Trac doesn't have clutches to wear out.
I'd like to put one in my truck and ditch the e-locker. :p

the 2011 line up in super cab xlt different prices depending on the motor

in 5.0 you get the 3:55 Non limited slip( regular rear)
first upgrade os 3:55 LS for $350
next is 3:73 LS for $400
then you have the 3:73 electronic locking rear for $695

but in the ecoboost motor

the prices change dramtically ..it will cost you another $1695 to get the electronic locking rear in 3:73!!!

thats before you get into any special packages...then its gets complicated

they almost give stuff away in some packages, and then they charge and arm and a leg for it in tohers

bob

You live in the same area as me. Why do you need limited slip? If you're getting a 4x4 you'll have more than enough traction for all seasons.


Oh, and one other thing... open diff is actually safer to have when driving on snow (Since we are expected to get dumped on this season).

^ i disagree with an open diff being safer in snow, but maybe thats just in Alaska.

I was disappointed with seeing that the regular LS is more expensive than the e-locker, and it wasn't possible to get 3.73s open in a screw/5.0 4x4. I'd want the 3.73 gears, and then used the money saved to get a Tru-trac...

Anyone hear of any issues of ditching the e-locker for a mechanical locker?

The only difference in price between a 5.0 and 3.73 e locker and a EcoBoost and a 3.73 e-locker is the price of the EcoBoost. That is $750. for 2011.

2011 F150 XLT SuperCab 5.0 3.73 e-locker $34,805.

2011 F150 XLT SuperCab EcoBoost 3.73 e-locker $35,555.

Most of the limited slips were replaced with lockers for 2012 because the limited slips were causing problems with traction control and are not needed anymore. Traction control takes care of everything. The $2k more for limited slip is misleading because that also includes heavy-duty payload package. Trust Ford. They know what they are doing.

These videos from dcfluid show how well it works...

Demonstrating the new "One Wheel Spin Control" feature on a 2011 Ford FX4. The traction control system now stops the symptom of an open differential while the electronic locking diff is NOT engaged. Traction on the 2011's is much better now for driving on slippery streets and low traction conditions as the system now simulates a limited slip rear end when unlocked. See part two for more demonstrations. You will see the truck is in 2 wheel drive, rear is unlocked, traction control system turned off except for the one wheel spin control which is always on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3on27...layer_embedded

Part 2 showing more traction surfaces demonstrating the one wheel spin contrrol feature in a 2011 FX4. Notice how one wheel with less traction starts to spin first and fractions of a second later the brakes transfer traction to the wheel with more traction and both wheels spin. Powered by the ECOBOOST 3.5 twin turbo engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrdcC...el_video_title

Putting aside the traction control features of the modern F150 I can easily explain why:

With a limited slip rear diff on snow or ice the rear end of the vehicle will have a tendency to get sideways when both wheels are spinning on a slippery surface.

With an open diff, since one wheel loses power to the free spinning wheel the vehicle will track straight and not get sideways.

True, if you don't know how to drive... I won't ever own a one-wheel wonder up here, specifically because of snow.

My ranger with a ls had a real bad tendency to wander in the snow. I have to force my f150 with an open diff to go sideways in the snow. It's the nature of a ls to want to wonder. Even being able to control my ranger and hold a slide all day long, the open diff is better in the snow imo. I wouldn't have let my wife drive the ranger in the snow, but the f150 no problem

I have to disagree here. LS is 10x better in snow than an open.

Don't know what kind of roads you drive on, but here, with an open diff, in 2wd, up a hill, in the snow you dont make it. With LS, you make it no prob.

And the "braking simulated LS" doesn't always work. Look at some of the first videos on the ecoboost on youtube. One black mark on the road. If the "simulated LS" kicked in, you would have had 2 black marks.

You're talking about one specific thing "going up a hill 2wd" - well that's what 4x4 is for. 4x4 and open diffs own limited slip in icey/snowy roads. Mash the gas and it will go straight as an arrow. If all you have is 2wd then yes, the LS will help.

Drive on a ice covered road and I guarantee a limited slip is easier to lose control. Best of both worlds is what I prefer: 4x4 w/E-locker, this way if you are in more of a stuck position you can flip a switch and be locked for extra traction. Having owned many 4x4s, for on road driving I've yet to even need to use a e-locker, 4x4 works just fine.

Ever drive a Jeep with air or e-lockers? Try driving around fully locked on ice and watch what happens. Want to test what I'm talking about... go test drive a open diff in the rain in two wheel drive, make a sharp left turn and hammer the gas. Then go do the same with a LS and I'll bet any amount of money that the ass end of that LS is going to swing out and get sideways. Same thing applies in snow/ice except it becomes 10x easier to lose it.

bwhahahaha

mash the gas with open diffs on snow and you go No Wheres. I got a chevy 4x4 with open diffs front/rear stuck in the snow and our Ranger with LS walked circles around it.

I like having traction when I need it, not having to stop and engage 4x4...

Since some people say L/S is better in snow and some say open diff. is better in snow...I guess it comes down to what your used to driving in the snow. I drove trucks with L/S rears in snow for so long that when I bought my Bronco 3 years ago I hated the open diff in the Bronco. So I bought a Detroit TrueTrac L/S diff for the Bronco.Now it is much better in the snow, for me anyway because that is what I'm used to.

Well, since you didn't read a word I said I'll just leave it at you disagree. :cool:

Lastly, you're a little behind the times if you think you need to stop to engage 4x4.

Taken directly from the manual:

"Shifting between 2H (4X2) and 4H (4X4 high)
Move the 4WD control between 2H (4X2) and 4H (4X4 high) at any
forward speed. The message center will display 4X4 SHIFT IN
PROGRESS during the system shift. “4X4 HIGH” will display in the
message center if 4H is selected and “4X2” will momentarily display in
the message center if 2H is selected."

Ditto:
Your not going to convince the majority of the owners here, most don't get into REAL snow conditions. When you drive through bumper high snow, plus, 2 or more miles on a two-track, you d@mn well will know the difference between a rear which locks both r.wheels. The older style with friction packs were the best (other than a full locker). The problem with them is they would wear out and become use-less in time.

My wife's Explorer 4wd has open axles. I prefer it in ice and snow over my F150's...
It has never one wheeled like my FX4 does regularly. My work truck with LSD is better than my FX4 on wet pavement and does not one wheel.

I'm definitely on the mechanical grip side of the fence. Even though they do fade with age, they are predictable and there isn't an electronic babysitter doing what you may not want/expect. Although I had z28 for a daily driver for 4 years through all kinds of snow and ice, so hanging the tail out is expected and appreciated in the summer time, and a little nerve wracking on long distances in the winter time, but pretty fun once you get the hang of it for short distances.

GM and Eaton may have the best option with the G80 Governor operated locker. It is open when driving and locks when slipping at low speed. The YouTube videos are good.
They are open at speed for safety and 100% automatic no buttons to push or clutches to maintain...
http://youtu.be/q-rQTHMVAuw

That's a commercial from GM which is highly suspect.

When an unbiased tester pickuptrucks.com tested the same trucks on GM's proving grounds, GM's trucks came in last. The Silverado and Sierra could not get up the hill without stopping, and then engagaing 4wd. Only the Ford and Toyota were the only two trucks to walk right up the hill without engaging 4wd. That's the complete opposite of what GM showed in their commercial.

http://special-reports.pickuptrucks....e-tractio.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFJI0...layer_embedded

That video clearly states LS diff in the f150. According to ford, their "Automated Electronic braking" is just as good if not better. Do that same test with a FX4. I bet you don't see the same results.

I don't know how you guys drive or where you drive, but here there are 30 miles of snow covered interstate every winter, every day that stare at me. I can drive in 2wd in my tacoma with LS and be just fine. 4WD if it looks real nasty. The thing is, 2wd saves gas for me. Which is a big deal driving 60 miles a day. I would rather trust my truck in 2WD and know i have the 4WD if i need it than to be scared of my truck in 2WD and run 4WD all the time. But thats just me. I like driving in the snow in 2WD.

Are you suggesting your wife doesn't know how to drive? :eek:

I wish people would stop comparing their old Rangers, Chevy's, Tacomas and whatnot to the 2012 F-150. They're not the same.

Ford has expanded features. They haven't taken away.

- 2011 F-150 already simulates a limited slip

- traction control since 2009

- 2012 lockers replace most of the limited slips, since this is in addition to the simulated slip activity, you are getting a locker in addition to "limited slip"

- 2012 added lockers to even 2wd

- 2012 Lariat and up get Automatic 4wd

- Raptor now has a Torsen front dif

Until someone actually has a problem with a 2012 F-150 compared to a 2011 F-150 I won't believe there is a problem with the 2012. Ford knows what they are doing.

I only get limited slip activity if I'm driving in a straight line. I have simulated dcfluid's video and if I am driving straight ahead like he does in his video it kicks in and acts like a L/S. If I am at a stop sign making a right hand turn and I take off in a spirited manner turning right (with TC on) I get about 15' of one wheel peel. :mad:

just give the eco a few years...they will work out the bugs. dont EVER buy the first year of a new style or a new engine. thats the trial year when all the recalls and stuff come out and all the engines have bugs in them that need to be worked out.

I used to live in Erie PA(lake effect snow...about 180inches of snow per year...)and never had 4wd. had 7 rwd vehicles, 6 of which were driven in snow. 78 f150, 89 firebird, 86 chevy C10, 97 ranger, 04 f150 heritage, 08 f150.... 04 had 3.08 open diff and non studded snow tires and would not kick out the rear end but had a lot of trouble moving. my 08 had a 3.55LS with just all weathers on it and yes it kickes out easier but would get going easier.(both were 4.2L and 5spd). its just preferance and which you can personally drive better. whatever vehicle you have, you will get to know how it drives either way. 04 i had to put 500Lbs over the wheels...08 i put about 150 bungee corded to the front of the bed....both worked fine....firebird had 70Lbs in the trunk...140 was too much...78 f150 had almost 800Lbs in the bed...every vehicle is different...you just have to play around and see whats best for traction with what you have.

it seems like rangers are just crap in snow...now all of them but at least the 90's ones and ealry 2000s. my 97 2.3L ranger was 2wd and a 5spd. it would slip towards a ditch almost no matter what you were on. and the antilock brakes would usually go bad after 4 or 5 years. my ranger would lock the front wheels on snow when barely even applying pressure. if you were trying to stop on an icy road that slanted to the side, you would barely slow down becasue the fronts would lock and slid you towards the curb or ditch so you had to let off and straighten out, then press the brakes again and repeat all over again. i almost tboned a dodge ram quad cab the second day i had mine doing just as i described. was only going about 15mph and it took me the whole length of our high school softball field to stop...and that was only because the last 20ft was cindered so i got grip. i still slid into the road because i pretty much did not slow down at all while on the icy part. the cinders made it so i stopped. if there were no cinders...i would have tboned the dodge. i will never buy another ranger. mostly for that reason but partly because i am 6'5" tall and could barely fit in that thing.

Mine was an 07 I bought new. The last year I had it, I put bridgestone dueller revo's on it and that solved the problem. The truck also had 60k km on it and the ls was starting to one tire fire sometimes. I never had trouble stopping on the snow though. Just keeping it straight

[QUOTE=kris77;4703787]I have to disagree here. LS is 10x better in snow than an open.

Don't know what kind of roads you drive on, but here, with an open diff, in 2wd, up a hill, in the snow you dont make it. With LS, you make it no prob.[QUOTE]

my 04 heritage i had and the 08 i have now both made it up the hill i had to go up to go to work every night. basically it was a hill, with a stop sign at the top...then had to start out and go over the intercection, then go up an even steeper hill(about 1.5x the steepness) for about 100yds to crest the hill...
ok...both trucks were 4.2L 5spds..both 2wd..04 was reg cab longbed with snow tires on the rear and 500Lbs in the bed over the wheels with a 3.08 open diff weighing 3897Lbs according to state registration. 08 is regcab shortbed with all weathers and 150Lbs in the front of the bed with a 3.55LS and weighing 4364Lbs according to state registration. both made it up the hill with some effort. the 04 was very slow going up but made it up straight with rear trying to slip out but was easy to catch and adjust to. made it to the top going maybe 8mph. the 08 went up the hill with the headlights shining into the fronts of all the houses i went by. it was going up the hill completely straight...except my truck wasnt pointing straight. i had the wheels cut all the way to the right to go straight. if the rear kicked out any more to the side i would have went across the oncoming lane and into a yard. but after the back end was slid out and i had the wheels cut to the right...i made it up to the top going about 5mph. i could not let off the gas to straighten out becasue i would lose momentum and would probably not be able to make it up the hill. also my ranger i had was a 97 2.3L 2wd. no idea of diff or gears but it had all weathers and about 450Lbs in the bed and it didnt even make it to the stop sign. from my house to the stop sign was about a half mile. ranger made it about 3/4 of the way up before i started sliding backwards and i had to turn around and go home and call off work. its funny because i drove 15miles to work with my 2wd f150s...and would get there without problems most of the time, even thru kinda heavy snow...and i would get there and people who lived just 3 miles down the road with 4x4s would call off from the snow.
also i would go home on an unplowed road with 1.5 feet of snow on it, going about 35mph and pushing snow with my bumper....then get home and realize i forgot to hand in keys at work and would go 75mph on the same road going back becasue i was mad that i had to go back and i couldnt just go to bed when i got home. still never had problems. have done that in both f150s lol
sorry for such a long post but it kinda helps the LS vs non LS arguement.

i had firestone destination ATs on mine and also i believe they had 4wheel anitlock brakes by 07 so that would also help yours. but i am still to big for a ranger, unless its an ext cab but its still too narrow for me. need a full size.

Going by the Video of the Nissan Titan showed that the simulated Limited Slip is the worst.

I had a Titan and it uses ABLS or as they refer to it as Automatic Brake Limited Slip. This is different from the traction control and is active at all times regardless if TC is turned on or off. Nissan replaced their mechanical limited slips with this electronic limited slip in all their vehicles.

Of all the trucks/SUVs I've owned, the Titan and Pathfinder were the worse in snow, 4WD, and 2WD.

The 2000 Xterra had a limited Slip differential before Nissan replaced them with electronic limit slip in 2005. It did very good with 2WD and 4WD but had no traction control what's so ever so it slipped a bit but never got stuck.

My Sport Trac did very well in the snow with 4WD, but it also had brake limited slip with no true mechanical limited slip. It did much better than the Titan. It's main advantage was AWD, as it had auto 4WD and as soon as it slipped it went into 4WD. So I don't know how well it would had done in 2WD. The Auto 4WD was only good for slick surfaces with light snow. I always had to lock in 4 Hi for deep snow as the Auto 4WD was just to slow to engage before it started spinning the wheels.

The F150 has been the best truck out of all of them with it's limited slip differential and it's traction control. I've never had a problem with slipping in 2WD and when both wheels spun together, traction control got me straight. In 4WD, I've never even slowed down in the deepest stuff. Mechanical LSD with Traction control is the best, only second to a true locker with speeds under 25 mph. With speeds that the locker can't lock, the LSD is the best.

I honestly thought the ABLS of the Titan would had done better as that is what Ford is using on their open differentials for 2011 and 2012. There's been no proof that it also hasn't been used on the open differentials of 2009 and 2010. Mechanical locker and LS is the best, each having their own benefits over the other.

BTW, from someone who drives in the snow belt, LSD is much better than an open differential! An open differential will just spin one wheel and not push the vehicle through the snow. A Limited slip differential will switch power back and forth to the wheel with the most traction. It can cause both wheels to spin with hard acceleration and cause the rear end to drift to the side. BUT when light acceleration is used to keep from spinning the wheels uncontrollably, it will push you through snow that an open differential will leave you stuck. With traction control, even having both rear wheels spinning is not likely for long as it will be stopped by the TC. Otherwise, you have to know how to drive through the slick stuff and know how to accelerate so your rear end doesn't break loose.

In all my life, I've never heard of anyone saying an open differential is better than a limited slip. Maybe to the city slickers who don't drive in rural, deep snow and know that a snow plow doesn't always come. :D

Truetrac
 

I have a truetrac in the rear of one of my F150's and I dont care for it every much. when one wheel gets light it works like an open diff. I have tried to depress the brake pedal and it still does not work. It works great on level ground and up hills and that's about it. I wish I could report good news on this.

One thing i will say...i never had 4wd, still made it to work with my 2wd F150s driving 15 miles, when at the same time people with 4wd called off when they were 3 miles down the road... the 2wd ones are kinda hard to get going but once they are moving they are actually pretty good as long as you know what you are doing. i hated driving home from work on a saturday AM or Sunday AM because there was no school so no backroads were plowed...so id be plowing the snow with the front air dam and having no problem at all driving thru it. and if youre gonna get 2wd..get a manual tranny...easier to get unstuck with rocking it.

Well I kinda totally forgot about my posting about the limited slip situation ford has forced me into! Anyways... the computer controlled braking limited slip wanna be is a no go in my book. I have decided if I order a truck it will be with the cheapest open differential, and I will install my own LS aftermarket.

I have no use for a 4x4 either. My 2010 has 72,000 miles on it and 90% of them are all highway. My 2WD LS combo was a champion in the snow last year. I even took it out for the hell of it during the one snow storm that closed I80 by where I live. Never got stuck!

IMHO these new trucks are very well thought out in alot of different areas ... the diff setup work better than any other system ive had in the past....ive had the LS and the clutches wear out , the truetrac is good and wont wear out BUT its still a LIMITED Slip .. if one tire looses traction the truetrac is still a 1 wheel wonder ... the G-20 only engauges at low speeds ( i think it was 25 mph or a little less) and some guys ive know have had them fail with a little more HP than stock.... I haven't put the stamp of approval on the new trucks yet , but they are buy far a huge improvement over the past trucks ...... Have a nice day