Thanks for all the input, guys.

Just bought a 2013 XL 2WD 5.0 reg-cab, 8' foot bed with the 3.55 locking rear diff. My personal work truck. My last two F-150s were 98 XL Supercabs with the 3.55 LS and a 2000 XLT Supercab with the 3.55 LS with I found worked fine in snow, so I was a little uneasy buying this '13 with the Locking Rear Diff. I could have had the small V6 with LSD, but wanted that 5.0 V8.

Here's a question. Do you think the Locking Rear Diff would hold up to, how shall I say this, the occasional roasting of the rear tires?

My other ride is an 05 Mustang GT ragtop 5-speed with the 3.55 LS that has held up fine in these instances, delivering nice twin black stripes.

Not that I would ever countenance doing such a thing, of course, with my F-150 but is this locking differential built to take that kind of treatment? And if so, would it just disengage at 20 mph, or whatever the speed is, as I keep my foot planted?

Craig

I went from a 07 Chevy VMax with the G80 locker to an 11 FX4 with open diff.
Driving in the same conditions,yes up here we get lots of snow,ice,and interesting driving conditions.
Hands down I would take the open diff with traction control over the G80.
It works amazingly well.
My trucks previous to the Chev were F150s with LS and the clutch packs gave me grief and didn't last long.
Personally I would take the open diff over it all....but that's me.

Bump. Nobody has answered my question (see note just above):

Do you think the Locking Rear Diff would hold up to, how shall I say this, the occasional roasting of the rear tires?

Craig

2013 XL reg-cab 8-ft bed 5.0 El. Locking Rear Diff. Towing Package.

(Need to update my profile!)

I live in the snowbelt near Cleveland and have no issue with the open diff.. Turn off traction control and enjoy the technology. My last F150 had the LS and I actually like the open diff. better. If you are going extreme 4X4 then get a locker. Check out this video at 3:52 (explains one wheel spin control). BTW the one wheel spin control applies to the front wheels as well in 4 hi.
Found this on another forum: http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...t-16686-4.html

This is from a post in F150Forum.com. GREAT post about Ford F150 LS, electronic lockers, traction control, etc. Here goes . .

I read a lot about the rear ends and how they work in the owners manual and have been testing all the features on 5 different F150's and now have my FX4 fitted with the Raptor 2wdr E-locker modification.
A little background on me, work in northern Canada as a forestry logging supervisor for the largest Canadian forest company. I put on 70,000 kms a year on a combination of frozen, icy, snowy, slushy winter roads and the other half of the year is mucky, horrid, thawing winter roads, new road construction etc. New company truck every 2 years, 3 if it holds up well. So I have some reference as to how well some thing hooks up and goes.

I had ordered an FX4 then later found out it had an open diff when the locker was not engaged which can happen in 4x4 only. I was worried I'd have a one wheeled wonder spinning away while in 2wdr mode. My dealer was very accomodating (PG Motors) and let me try various trucks to see the difference between rear ends and possibly change my truck order. I tested 2 FX4's and 2 Lariats(LS rears), my 2008 GMC 3500HD (LS rear), and now my FX4 Ecoscrew.

My results are this as much as some people will scream bullshoot:
The FX4 in 2wdr has an open diff that is constantly controlled by electronics tied to the traction control system. This is called "one wheel spin control" and is on all the time and is not able to be disabled by the driver, it is standard on all 2011 F150's according to my manual. It is not the "traction control 2 wheel spin control" which shuts you down from spinning both wheels. 2 wheel spin control is what is shut off with one push of the traction control button on the dash.
So I turn off TC and try out the one wheel spin control. It works. On ice, snow gravel pavement, one wheel on sand and other on pavement, slush, light mud, turning corners. The 1WSC acts very much like as LS rear, you get no more than a fraction of a second of one wheel spin and then the system forces both wheels to turn, spinning both wheels on every surface I tried.
Trying the Lariats with the LS rear end could not tell a difference no matter what I tried, leaving me with the impression that it's 1WSC was activating quicker than the LS rear. I am confused as to why there are two systems so similar on the truck, my guess would be in the fine print in the manual, which I will get to later.
So both rear ends get around my icy, snowy coarse in identical fashion, lap after lap for an hour. No salesman or mechanic observed any difference in close up spin outs either. Job well done Ford, it kicks my Gm's arse even with the advantage of new Bizzacks, sandbags, and LS rear,

So I can only assume that anyone in a FX4 (2011 tested only) who complains in 2 wheel drive they have poor rear end traction has one of the following problems: Their tires suck for the conditions, the conditions are worse than they realize, they haven't tried turning off the TC to help, they don't know what they are doing, or there is something wrong with the truck.

Now that I have 2wdr diff lock on my FX4 I have been comparing full lock and open modes(always TC off) and have discovered something that is amazing. Diff lock does not get you going any faster in the crap than open diff mode. WHY? Because the electronic 1WSC forces both wheels to spin just like a LS and when BOTH WHEELS ARE SPINNING ALL DIFFS ARE THE SAME. YOUR TIRES ARE THE ONLY THING THAT WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF BOTH TIRES ARE SPINNING!

NOW THE BIG BUT: the 1WSC will shut down automatically if your spin your wheels too much as it heats up the brakes and this would be unsafe. Thus the need for the LS for severe use,in snow, mud, sand etc. The LS will not wear your brakes and may have a power advantage by not losing HP to the braking of the 1WSC system. The electronic system works great for everyday use, a very good LS substitute. The LS is for when this system reaches it's limits

Found this info as well on another forum:

The 2010 and 2011 traction control IS different. The manual DOES indicate this on page 282 as you showed but again on page 285.

THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE! CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? The one wheel spin control is ALWAYS ON!
This means when you turn off traction control on a 2011 to spin your tires fast for whatever reason you choose to do so, the one wheel spin control STAYS ON! This means both rear wheels (when in 2wdr) will spin like it has a limited slip rear, just like in the video. Understand?

On a 2010 FX4 with traction control turned off there is NO one wheel spin control. This means one wheel spins on the slippery surface and the other wheel DOES NOTHING. TESTED OVER AND OVER! By myself and hundreds of other users here.

So now to the issue of leaving the traction control on. Traction control works on both trucks, using both braking traction control and engine traction control. In fact engine traction control seems to play a larger part in controlling wheel spin by reducing power than the brakes do. It is quite noticable how on slippery ground or off road how the engine gets neutered to reduce wheel spin to small amounts. Feels 1/2 power.
So who gives a rats behind how much brake traction control is doing when traction control is on because you really can't do much but drive normal street style anyways. You really can't tell what the thresholds are because it won't let you find them. Any driver would have a hard time finding a performance difference between a 2010 and 2011 with traction control on.

So turn the traction control off on your 2010 with limited slip and you STILL have limited slip. Turn it off on a 2010 FX4 and you have an OPEN DIFF WITH NO SPIN CONTROL. Turn off TC on a 2011 FX4 and you STILL have spill control.

So if you can understand these FACTS, and can understand you personally have no personal experience with the open diffs on late model F150's to dispute these FACTS, and can stop smearing my rep on here then we can put this to rest.

If you see any black marks on the road then the driver had the traction control disabled. So your logic is completely false.

BTW - disabling the traction control with the button on the dash does not disable stability control... I found that out when I tried to play in the snow...

Of course your wife's explorer also has drastically different weight distribution. So its probably not a good comparison.


FWIW - I have driven these trucks on test tracks, including "Zero Friction" surfaces. I can tell you without a doubt that the traction control systems work wonderfully, including the behavior as a simulated limited slip diff.

One of the test areas had a 30% grade to climb (this is very steep). We would take the truck up onto the surface, put one side onto a zero friction surface (gloss ceramic tiles that are being sprayed with water) and then come to a complete stop. The test was to then drive up the hill from a complete stop. With the traction control the truck would drive right up. Without it, you would spin the wheels and slide backwards.
(and you had to be in 4WD - in 2WD the truck couldn't go... not enough traction even with traction control)

We didn't have one to test, but based on the failure in 2WD I'd be willing to bed that a limited slip would not have passed that test.

You can turn off stability control by following the directions below which is in your manual.

Attachment 16639

Attachment 16640

If you turn off traction control on a 2009-2010 F-150 you will only get a one wheel peel (turns off 1 wheel spin control). 2011 up F-150 keeps 1 wheel spin control on even when traction control is off (traction control off only eliminates engine braking 2011 up F-150).

With multiple drivers, driving our company trucks, I chose to stick with the LTD slip option vs the E-locker, for the 3-2013MY trucks I ordered this week. It is my concern that I would have a driver not knowing what the E-locker switch was for and end up driving around on the dry pavement with the rear end locked or the last guy had it on for a reason and someone else jump in the truck not kowing it was locked etc.

I am not sure what is up with some of the general public pricing and option availabilty, but I Fleet ordered two 5.0L XL regular cabs with the XH9 LTD slip and it cost me 299.00 per truck, and it was the same on the one 5.0L Ext Cab STX, just $299.00 for the 3.55 XH9 LTD slip.

Still looking for an answer to my question I originally posted on Feb. 1 above, repeated Feb. 20:

Do you think the Locking Rear Diff would hold up to, how shall I say this, the occasional roasting of the rear tires (on dry pavement)?

Craig

2013 XL reg. cab 8-foot bed 5.0, locking rear diff.
(Need to update my profile)

Usually transmission/torque converter damage is more evident quicker than rear axle damage.

Glad I found this thread - lots of good info and I am a bit more at ease on having an open diff vs. a limited slip.
@ Shifter - You will be fine, go roast 'em like crazy on pavement. If you hear crunching noise, ignore that. The important part is that you look cool.

I see it as another evolution of technology that we all scoff at until it is accepted as common place.

Simply put technology has now surpassed the performance levels of the LSD. It has none of the draw backs (tire wear, turning resistance in every day driving). It can also transfer a lot more torque from wheel to wheel than the tightest LSD.

Subaru has hung their hat on this technology for years. Their product is world renown for snow and all road performance. They do not have any LSD's it is all done through the technology of wheel braking and transfer case bias front to rear. You can watch YouTube vids where they test the system on three zero grip rollers and ONE front tire has to move the car. Nothing off the US production line would pass that test until just recently. Japan and Europe have been doing this brake bias torque management for decades...

I agree with the advantages of the latest technology, but most is for very short term use. Trucks are more likely than cars to be in loose traction areas for long distances, which is where the LSD or Elock shines. It's nice to have a choice.
One interesting note is how Ford does not offer Elock or Open axles in the Heavy Payload package, either with or without the Max Tow. So it looks like they rate the LSD as they most durable of the three axles. If you want the HD Payload package, you have one axle choice - 3.73 LSD.

Personally I like the LS in my truck but what has not been mentioned much is that many of the comparisons here are apples to grapes. Wheelbase track and weight distribution make a huge difference. My son has my dads 73 Bronco which he is restoring it came with a detroit locker in the rear and LS in the front it was insane to drive on icy roads so much in fact we put a open diff in the rear. My 78 Blazer has a LS and was fine most of the time. Wider track longer wheelbase good weight distribution. I had a 98 F 150 2wd with LS and hated it but my 99 F 250 Diesel 2wd with LS was fantastic. My current 09 SCAB XLT 4x4 with LS is a bit twitchy at times on icy roads but still is a pretty good setup because it is long enough a shorter wheel base would make it tougher to drive at times. The real test comes next weekend when I launch and retrieve my boat on a steep wet ramp I am pretty sure I will glad it has the LS then.

Tires make the biggest difference. For the majority a open diff with one wheel spin control is all that is needed. I had ZERO issues in the snowbelt near Cleveland when I turned off traction control this past winter. My last truck had a limited slip and I can't tell a difference. If I was to go off roading often then I would get a ls or e-locker.

Sorry to bump this thread once again, but nobody has answered my question:

2013 XL 2WD 5.0 reg-cab, 8' foot bed with the 3.55 locking rear diff.
Here's my question. Do you think the Locking Rear Diff would hold up to, how shall I say this, the occasional roasting of the rear tires?

My other ride is an 05 Mustang GT ragtop 5-speed with the 3.55 LS that has held up fine in these instances, delivering nice twin black stripes.

So in the quarter-mile, or when just smoking the back tires, can the locking diff take it? Do you turn it on? Do you disable it? Does it disable itself at the set speed, around 30 mph, and just keep going?

it disables itself at 20 MPH

Not sure if it would hold up or not... judging by the fact that they shut it off at 20 MPH I would be worried about how robust it is when subjected to high loads.

but there is always one way to find out...
be sure to post a video if it fails in an extravagant fashion!

I'd think the e-locker would be very robust if they are putting it in the Raptor.

I was playing with my E locker in a recent ice storm. I will say it is a bad idea to run the locker and try to turn on ice. I almost looped it in the intersection. It won't let either rear tire grip and makes the ice much worse than with an open or LS rear end. The factory LS gets the nod for icy road commuting. The locker is handy for straight line or no speed maneuvering. But if you turn on ice with it locked you may spin out.

I love my 2010 2Wd with LSD. It was chattering a little in turns until I did a fluid refresh but since then it has been perfect. I didn't even go to winter tires as I find I have more than enough traction now. But the first thing I do on a slippery day is turn off the Traction Control. I know how to deal with the truck when the rear end comes out, because compared to an open diff, an LSD will cause the rear to go sideways sooner when you get on the power and start spinning both wheels.

This fact is why I don't like the wife drive the truck in the winter. Probably with the Traction control on she would be safe enough, but still, an open diff with an e-locker is the safer set-up in my opinion for people that are not used to driving a vehicle at the limits of traction and that don't know how to properly correct for when it goes squirrely.

I believe Ford is doing away with LSD for another reason that hasn't been brought up. Fuel economy. In an open diff you don't have friction modifier and you don't have the losses which occur when you are turning and forcing the disks to slip past each other. It may be small, but you can't argue that an open diff is the most fuel efficient.

I used to think that my ideal set-up was 2wd with the open diff and an e-locker for when you are "stuck". But I really would miss the fun I get to have with the LSD in slippery conditions :) But the open diff with an e-locker is really not that bad. Tires make more of a difference at the end of the day and you can argue that going non-LSD also preserves the tires in the turns.

I'm thinking the e-locker was added when the transfer case was offered with an "Auto" mode. I use the Auto mode almost everyday in the woods and like it since there is no hop in the front/rear going around tight gravel corners. I have used the e-locker on occasion and it appears to do its job.

I can't argue that it didn't free up slight mpg though.

I am glad my truck has LS, as I do not trust electronics in vehicles.

??? :confused:

-PCM
-BSM
-Cluster
-PATS
-Audio
-FPDM
-ABS
-ESOF
-ETC
-Autolights
- ...

Wow. Reckon ye needs to dump yer untrustworthy silicon-filled POS E-truck and git ye one o' these...

http://gandfcarriages.com/images/chuckwagon.jpg


Fekkkk .. anudder Luddite in a Fiddy .... :lol: :angel::devil:

:beers:
MGD

________________________________

Yo Karl65 - last chance, 'er I'll git ye suspended fer not postin'! :lol:

MGD = :beers:

Mitch

MGD... altho I like your reply, I think you know he means stuff like the e locker compared to manually locking them. As some of you know I no longer have an f150. I bought a 2014 ram brand new. I have traction control in 2 and 4 wheel of course but in 4wd it seemed to instantly kick in and 2wd had a delay. Well recently I was in 4wd and hit the gas and speedo got up to 40 mph with a slight sideways rotation and traction control never engaged. I think that's what he meant...those electronics never seem to act the same while doing the same things.

So an electric motor is good enough to operate the transfer case but not good enough to lock the diff?!? This begs the question, "what electronics can be trusted?" Should he pull his coils and drill a hole in the block for a pointed type distributor? What about the tranny, should the electronic controlled one be dumped in favor of an old C4? Or... Is someone spouting off crap they really don't understand? I'll let you decide for yourself but the answer is pretty clear to me.

Ahem.....toyotas throttle cables being replaced by ELECTRONIC throttle causing priuses to go A-wall and cause deaths and accidents....Fords having recalls on cruise control units catching fire even after cruise control has been out for years. But if you don't have cruise control, guess what? You don't have to worry about it catching fire...

Not to belabour the point ( and further derail/threadcrap this thread, lol).

The first is an aberration ( in software) - and not an indicator of the efficacy and reliability of ETC. Millions upon millions of vehicles are running same with no issues. Additioanlly, Ford's design and code does not appear to be experiencing any safety-related concerns with ETC. And many benefits.

The second is more mechanical in nature - faulty garden-variety electro-mechanical pressure switch that's found and used in many applications, with a fluid leak. Bad design - indeed - but not a complex electronic apparatus.

Fact is - electronics have long since become ubiquitous in vehicles, not to mention pervading every facet of everyday existence - including precious F150's. That trend isn't going to stop anytime soon. The benefits vastly outweigh the risks, such as they are and what there is of it.

Having a cable-driven, non-EFI, carb'ed truck with a grammaphone screwed to the dash, while at the same time living in a connected smart home with a multi-zone, monitored security system with cloud-recording cameras to keep the bad guys at bay, while browsing a forum with a wireless handheld device containing more CPU horsepower and storage than a legacy mainframe, while yer smart thermostat manages yer sensor-laden high-efficiency solid-state DC drive fan and CPU-controlled burner array furnace to keep ye family from freezing to death, while pointing yer remote at an 80" curved 4X Smart TV connected to a 500+channel recording set-top box, while Mom is cooking in the kitchen on an induction range, while yer Dad sits in his Laz-Y-Boy reading an e-book, his pacemaker keepin' him alive, while yer lazy self-absorbed siblings are all on their tablets on Farcebook ... is, uh, a non-sequitur, and just a tad hypocritical :lol:

Pining aboot the "good ol days?" Guess what - they warn't so good, after all ... there is no going back. Unless you want to live in a cave, off the grid. Squirrel.. it's what's fer dinner!

:beers: Ol' Bubber - Luddite Slayer :beers:

PS: PM Karl65 fer more tips - he's a Survivalist :lol:

Lol. Just trying to point out that some of the stuff is a luxury or convenience. Out of my 9 vehicles I've had, old and new, I've never had an electronic system or electric motor of any sort fail. So I'm not arguing that they will fail. The more electronics, the more chances for them to fail. Not saying the good old days were any better... just saying sometimes the stripped down vehicles have less to go wrong. And when things are introduced, they aren't always tested fully or not long enough. We end up being the guinea pigs and things get tweaked or recalled if they are bad enough.

It's like the whole thing about never buying the first year of a new vehicle design or engine design. Look at 97 4.2s with the hydrolock, some new ecoboosts not being able to handle moisture very well, redesigned 5.4l in 04 having lean issues. We are the guinea pigs with new stuff. But look...after a few years they tweak stuff or completely change something to make it work. And that is true with everything you listed in your whole thing about the hypothetical house you spoke of. Whether it be chargers for those devices or whatever(phone batteries melting, burning peoples' faces etc).

I'll wait til my next vehicle at least to try an e locker. By then it will either be deemed a horrible idea, needs tweaking, recalls, or works freaking awesome....

End of hijack.

I understood what you were saying. There are those if us that are never satisfied with what we have and are constantly looking for ways to "improve" it or just change it for change sake. Others of us are content to let things settle out, get the kinks worked out before we embrace them. Never feeling the need to be on the cutting edge. I am one of the latter, as well.

FYI.

Nothing currently being used on an F150 is "cutting edge". It *may* be new as far as use in a pickup goes, but in the industry-at-large, it's all old news.

For certain - employing motorized actuators driven by sensor-enabled logic is positively ancient.

Good grief.

Fer Timmy: :beers: - Good fer you, bud - you actually get that Ol' Bubber was jes' messin' wif y'alls :thumber:

:coffee:

Maybe that would depend on one's definition of cutting edge. How about changing the wording to new fangled apparatuses.

If that's the case why don't you only drive Model Ts? What level of improvement is good enough for society to say stop making things better?

Why is so difficult for some of you read and understand language? Not caring if I am the first one to have a new concept or design does not mean I will not buy things that appeal to me once they have bugs worked out. It is amazing how words can be perceived to the extreme when one wishes to argue with someone. Just accept that some of us are not as smart as you. Will that work?

^^^ Ummmm .... can I have a translation? :p


http://images.moviepostershop.com/un...1020458906.jpg


Simply put, "...As I do not trust electronics in vehicles ..." is purdy unequivocal in my book, context or not.

Jim - please calm down. :thumbsup:

If I were any calmer, I would be dead. :roflol:

If you look back, I never said I did not trust or want electronics in vehicles. I said I understood where Timmy was coming from and that I too did not feel the need to be the first to own something just because it was the "latest and greatest" because the marketing gurus said it was.

I took it as you were getting pretty wound up too. I'm not really trying to stir the pot just figure out why people are so adverse to some electronics but not others. I don't see anyone wanting to replace their electric starter with a hand crank.

Here's how I see it. The previous gold standard on selectable lockers was the ARB air locker. This was a pneumatic system overlaid with electrical controls. This system uses an electrical air compressor to fill air lines and use operate a pneumatic actuator to lock the dif. It is controlled via and electrical switch. Anyone who has been around this system know it works great, when it works...

The e-locker uses a switch, some wire and an electrical actuator. Which system sounds like the more complicated one? Plus, it's really not that new. Eaton had e-lockers on the market over 10 years ago.

Now, I look at it this way - a limited slip has clutches which are wear items - an e-locker has no wear items other than what's found in all differentials.

You still seem to be missing the point of my original post. I was not posting concerning my position of electronic rear end. Heck, my truck has one. I was simply defending Timmy's right to not want one, if he so chooses. I was using my own feelings towards new things in the market as an example. I chose to buy a 2014 so I would not be forced to buy a 2015. I spend all the free time I can on my farm. I live in the country and am attempting to move farther into the country. I prefer the slow life in small towns. I still have rabbit ears on my TVs. My cell is an iPhone 4. You get the picture?

Just thought of some more. My favorite Fords have been the 65 and 66 Mustangs I restored and one of of all time favorite vehicles is the 39-41 Willys. Make the most fantastic hot rods.

Yep.

http://magdalenaperks.files.wordpres...lass-folks.jpg

MGD