Oil Pressure Help Please!!
#16
09-11-2014, 10:04 AM
Senior Member
I'm only speaking from direct experience on the issue. First oil change I did after buying my truck used I used 5w20 Royal Purple full syn. When the truck was at operating temp, a light throttle would send the timing all wacky and the truck would shake violently. Giving it more throttle (which raises the oil pressure due to mechanical oil pump) would clear things up. After a week of putting up with that, I switched to Mobil1 10w40 full syn. Haven't had the problem since. In my case, increasing the "hot" oil pressure with a thicker oil was enough to keep the timing chain tensioners and VCT phasers working. I'll definitely admit that there is something else wrong with my engine - Ford designed them to run with 5w20 so you can't blame just the oil. All I'm saying is a thicker oil will increase your oil pressure and possibly fix the symptoms you're experiencing.
#17
09-11-2014, 10:20 AM
I'll just leave these here:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...l-filters.html
*** Most Awesome thread: https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...0-05-5-4l.html ***
There's a ton more from these two fellers if y'all'd use Search...
Now - you can attempt to argue with those two folks, but fact is, they have forgotten more aboot oils than you'll ever know. Facts - not assumptions. If yer engine is indeed that oil-sensitive, you have other issues.
I recommend putting in a quart of Seafoam, a quart of MMO, a can of STP, a shot of Bardahl, and installing a Fram filter - that'll fix'er
MGD
The Motorcraft oil 5w-20 will have for a base, an acid washed white Gp III base oil that is extremely pure. According to the techs I have spoken with, it's about a 50% synthetic base blended oil. In the formulation you'll find averagely 80ppms moly which comes into play on parts where the temps exceed 305F. That would be like cylinder walls pistons,etc. It makes a major difference in the life of an engine and is a fabulous thing to have in the formulation. You'll find boron averagely at 230ppms. Boron is a multi-function additive in that it is a detergent and a friction modifier. Oils using boron are going to provide better engine life and better fuel mileages. Motorcraft I'm hearing now is using a splash of nano- borates. While I haven't personally seen it and it certainly isn't going to flash out in spectroscopy, if it's there, it's like the Titanium in other oils. It brings more lubricity to the oil. You'll also find the newer magnesiums in Motorcraft oils. These are used as a detergent but primary use is to stabilize the base over longer periods. It doesn't take much of it to work. Amsoil is now using it so they can get their extended drain intervals. Amsoil is using about 15ppms and Motorcraft is at 10 averagely. It's been long suspected that Ford is subsidizing the Motorcraft oils. I can believe it. For the price you are paying and the value of the components in the bottle, it's a major bargain. It shows some of the lowest wear metals in spectroscopy and is built to go the recommended distances that are in the current owners manuals. You can certainly pay more for an oil but it's doubtful that it will equal Motorcraft. Yeah, it's really that good.
Been running 10W30 oil in my 5.4L for two years and haven't noticed much mpg loss at all (I check every tank and have the odometer accurized, plus I monitor the Gryphon). That's mostly due to my driving situation, which is that when the truck starts it runs long enough to get the oil hot and up to stabilized temp. That takes up to 15 miles on a warm day, 10 miles on a hot one and 20+ on a cold one. If a guy were short hopper that never really got the oil up to temp, that's when you would see the mpg hit (which I would estimate at 1-2 mpg at most).
You may ask why I'm running 10W30. It was done in a deluded attempt to consolidate all my oils to one. 10W30 (dual rated API SM/CJ4) was something all my vehicles, tractors, cars and small engines could run. Some of you may remember my posting this some time back. I data logged the VVT on 5W20 and then on 10W30 and there was no change in VVT operation... the data matched line for line. I did notice substantial changes in oil pressure (I have a real gauge) with the heavier oil, which was expected. I did NOT notice any substantial change in engine noise... still as noisy as ever.
Once I'm done with this 15K mile, 2.5 year run, I'll be going back to 5W20. It will be interesting to see if I note any changes going back. My conclusion is that heaver oils aren't harmful to the engine (or else why would Ford have issued that TSB on using 10W40 in noisy engines), but it's far from optimal. If I ran the truck real hard most of the time, towing, hauling in hot weather, I MIGHT consider going to a 5W30... but even then, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary based on my experience so far. I'd be making that choice based on oil temps. In general, I find the oil temps run pretty low in my 5.4L. Generally they are under 200F, even on hot days. The highest I've seen personally is 219F. Other owners that tow long distance have reported somewhat over 225-230, but that's pretty normal too. I remember one guy with a Gryphon reporting hitting 250 on one of those long grades in Washington state when towing heavy. That's where I would be worrying on a 5W20, because the oil would be pretty thin at that temp.
You may ask why I'm running 10W30. It was done in a deluded attempt to consolidate all my oils to one. 10W30 (dual rated API SM/CJ4) was something all my vehicles, tractors, cars and small engines could run. Some of you may remember my posting this some time back. I data logged the VVT on 5W20 and then on 10W30 and there was no change in VVT operation... the data matched line for line. I did notice substantial changes in oil pressure (I have a real gauge) with the heavier oil, which was expected. I did NOT notice any substantial change in engine noise... still as noisy as ever.
Once I'm done with this 15K mile, 2.5 year run, I'll be going back to 5W20. It will be interesting to see if I note any changes going back. My conclusion is that heaver oils aren't harmful to the engine (or else why would Ford have issued that TSB on using 10W40 in noisy engines), but it's far from optimal. If I ran the truck real hard most of the time, towing, hauling in hot weather, I MIGHT consider going to a 5W30... but even then, it wouldn't be absolutely necessary based on my experience so far. I'd be making that choice based on oil temps. In general, I find the oil temps run pretty low in my 5.4L. Generally they are under 200F, even on hot days. The highest I've seen personally is 219F. Other owners that tow long distance have reported somewhat over 225-230, but that's pretty normal too. I remember one guy with a Gryphon reporting hitting 250 on one of those long grades in Washington state when towing heavy. That's where I would be worrying on a 5W20, because the oil would be pretty thin at that temp.
*** Most Awesome thread: https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...0-05-5-4l.html ***
There's a ton more from these two fellers if y'all'd use Search...
Now - you can attempt to argue with those two folks, but fact is, they have forgotten more aboot oils than you'll ever know. Facts - not assumptions. If yer engine is indeed that oil-sensitive, you have other issues.
I recommend putting in a quart of Seafoam, a quart of MMO, a can of STP, a shot of Bardahl, and installing a Fram filter - that'll fix'er
MGD
Last edited by MGDfan; 09-11-2014 at 10:35 AM.
#18
09-11-2014, 12:15 PM
Senior Member
^Agreed.
The "fix" of using a minutely higher weight oil is either placebo effect, or is masking the real issue. Tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of these trucks are on the road running 5-20 oil that don't have issues. It is unthinkable that the Ford engineers would negate to have data from these engines over the past decade of the 3V 5.4L being in production. Recommending that someone deviate from the engine oil spec rather than fixing the problem is ridiculous, especially when your evidence is anecdotal at best.
The "fix" of using a minutely higher weight oil is either placebo effect, or is masking the real issue. Tens of thousands (maybe hundreds of thousands) of these trucks are on the road running 5-20 oil that don't have issues. It is unthinkable that the Ford engineers would negate to have data from these engines over the past decade of the 3V 5.4L being in production. Recommending that someone deviate from the engine oil spec rather than fixing the problem is ridiculous, especially when your evidence is anecdotal at best.
#19
09-12-2014, 09:46 AM
Senior Member
Not sure when Ford changed their spec from 5w30 to 5w20, but TIL that 4.2 million F-150s were sold in the US and Canada from 2004 to 2008. So, yeah I think there's probably a few million of them still on the road (hopefully). And I bet over 99% of them are running 5w20 oil, and most of those probably running Motorcraft. It's definitely high quality stuff.
Changing oil weight is just like taking blood pressure medication - it doesn't fix whatever is wrong with your body that CAUSES the problem, but it deals with that symptom (that leads to problems in other parts of the body). And obviously, if you're not having any issues to begin with, why would you start taking medicine, right? And saying that there are millions of people who get along just fine without blood pressure medicine (ie different oil) is true, but we're not talking about them, we're talking about those of us that have a problem. It's definitely not a placebo effect, it is masking the real issue, but that's exactly what it's supposed to do....
Changing oil weight is just like taking blood pressure medication - it doesn't fix whatever is wrong with your body that CAUSES the problem, but it deals with that symptom (that leads to problems in other parts of the body). And obviously, if you're not having any issues to begin with, why would you start taking medicine, right? And saying that there are millions of people who get along just fine without blood pressure medicine (ie different oil) is true, but we're not talking about them, we're talking about those of us that have a problem. It's definitely not a placebo effect, it is masking the real issue, but that's exactly what it's supposed to do....
#20
09-12-2014, 12:36 PM
Senior Member
I'll just leave these here:
https://www.f150online.com/forums/20...ml#post4734663
https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...ml#post4937596
https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...l-filters.html
*** Most Awesome thread: https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...0-05-5-4l.html ***
There's a ton more from these two fellers if y'all'd use Search...
Now - you can attempt to argue with those two folks, but fact is, they have forgotten more aboot oils than you'll ever know. Facts - not assumptions. If yer engine is indeed that oil-sensitive, you have other issues.
... etc ...
MGD
https://www.f150online.com/forums/20...ml#post4734663
https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...ml#post4937596
https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...l-filters.html
*** Most Awesome thread: https://www.f150online.com/forums/v8...0-05-5-4l.html ***
There's a ton more from these two fellers if y'all'd use Search...
Now - you can attempt to argue with those two folks, but fact is, they have forgotten more aboot oils than you'll ever know. Facts - not assumptions. If yer engine is indeed that oil-sensitive, you have other issues.
... etc ...
MGD
BIG Thanks to both Labnerd and Jim Allen for their time and effort ..... and to you MGD for your short simple post bringing it all together.
Originally Posted by ... etc ...
I recommend putting in a quart of Seafoam, a quart of MMO, a can of STP, a shot of Bardahl, and installing a Fram filter - that'll fix'er
Last edited by tbear853; 09-12-2014 at 12:38 PM.
#21
09-12-2014, 01:14 PM
I reckon I left room fer aboot four quarts o' 7-Eleven dino awwwwlll ( Paula Deen-speak ).
MGD
#22
09-16-2014, 05:28 PM
An update on my F150: It began to run rough again and threw some fault codes, so I put the scanner on it. This time it showed 90020 and 90022 faults on bank two. Those fault codes point to several possible causes with one being a dirty solonoid. Replacing that solonoid sounds like a pain so I thought I'd try to flush it one more time just for giggles. I found a shop that handles BG products and they ran a BG engine flush through it. Instead of the 5 minute flushes I had been doing, this process includes a 15 minute flush, an oil change and then an additive added to the new oil. (Hadn't tried an additive like that yet.)
At first it ran fine, but after about 50 miles it ran a little rough again. Not bad, just a little. It was of those "Oh, dang" moments. I thought that I was going to have to replace the engine after all. Then a strange thing happened. The critter started to run better on its own and now, after another 500 miles, the truck is running great. It seems that the BG additive is cleaning out whatever it was that was clogging the engine up. It seems there was a blockage of some kind that would get better after a flush, but then plug up again after a little while. The difference this time seems to be the BG additive that keeps on cleaning so it just hasn't plugged up again.
It seems that the more I drive it, the better it runs. Hopefully this fixes it. Could be the oil weight was important and then maybe not so much. The only thing I'm certain about at this point with respect to the oil is that the engine stopped that irritating valve ticking with the 5-30 oil. It wasn't so much the noise, but rather the people that kept asking me what was the matter with my truck. It was like "Dude, whats with your truck?". Kind of embarrassing you know.
I'll let you all know if I have any more problems, but it seems that BG engine flush might have just saved me a lot of hassle and about $6500. Knock on wood...
At first it ran fine, but after about 50 miles it ran a little rough again. Not bad, just a little. It was of those "Oh, dang" moments. I thought that I was going to have to replace the engine after all. Then a strange thing happened. The critter started to run better on its own and now, after another 500 miles, the truck is running great. It seems that the BG additive is cleaning out whatever it was that was clogging the engine up. It seems there was a blockage of some kind that would get better after a flush, but then plug up again after a little while. The difference this time seems to be the BG additive that keeps on cleaning so it just hasn't plugged up again.
It seems that the more I drive it, the better it runs. Hopefully this fixes it. Could be the oil weight was important and then maybe not so much. The only thing I'm certain about at this point with respect to the oil is that the engine stopped that irritating valve ticking with the 5-30 oil. It wasn't so much the noise, but rather the people that kept asking me what was the matter with my truck. It was like "Dude, whats with your truck?". Kind of embarrassing you know.
I'll let you all know if I have any more problems, but it seems that BG engine flush might have just saved me a lot of hassle and about $6500. Knock on wood...
Last edited by MnFordGuy; 09-16-2014 at 05:34 PM.
