You're right.

16:1 is high, and I would be concerned about this. But remember, this is something a forum member simply typed in with a keyboard and has not taken the time to back up his words, at least not yet.

First off, we need to know where mSall150 is getting this info. Keep in mind, this is the internet, and ANYONE can blurt out anything they want, regardless of their knowledge, or lack there of.

Second, we need to know the setup. Was this the Level 1, 2 or 3 tune that the Edge provides.

Third, we need to know if this AFR is ALWAYS like this, or only at WOT.

mSall150, care to answer those questions above WITH PROOF? I simply cannot rely on your word alone. If proof is indeed provided, I can assure you I will be on the phone with Edge Tech support first thing Monday morning to get more in depth info on this subject, but until said forum member can pony up some proof, I'll relax.

 

OK OK! This has gotten way off topic and into insults and arguing over PROOF of which I never asked for. If you don't have anything to add to my original post don't bother with anymore. I'm about ready to unsubscribe and take what if learned so far and move on.

Thanks to the ones who have given constructive info.

Unsubscribing in 3...2...1

 

Noooooo Don't unsubscribe.... J/K'ing

I just want to make sure that facts are facts. Don't take anyone's word unless they can back it up with some degree of legitimate proof. Simply saying the Edge causes the AFR to be 16:1 is a pretty broad blanket statement. There are too many questions revolving around that. That's why I narrowed it down to three. If he can simply answer those three, we will have a better chance on knowing exactly what the real picture is.



Stock motor - get an Edge

Simple bolt on's - get the Gryphon

Major changes (cam's, compression ratio, heads...) - get a DynoTune

 

To anyone concerned about AF ratios it's not very expensive to put your truck on a dyno and runs some tests. I was meaning to when I got my tunes since troyer gave up to 60 days or so for to do so and if any changes need to be made they would do it for free. I was really just too lazy to make it to a dyno. One of these day's I probably should just out of curiosity. I'm getting close to 20k miles on tunes and if there was a problems it "probably" would have shown up by now.

 

Sorry about that. I cannot give you a document or anything like that, but I have had lengthy conversations with several tuners about these trucks, Mike Troyer included. Its more word of mouth than anything. On the dyno I only had my custom tune run, not my stock tune...so I dont have a dyno graph for you.

Anyways, thats where I am getting this information. I tried to find Thumper's old dyno graphs but I couldn't. To my knowledge, the lean condition is more prominent at or close to WOT. RMS8, i recommend you call Mike Troyer and talk to him about all this. He knows a boatload about these trucks and you'll learn a lot. Also, I've owned both the Edge and custom tuning, so I'm speaking somewhat from a personal comparison as well. I'm not trying to be too biased, just giving my opinion.

Also keep in mind rms8, that while you dont floor your truck ever, others do and often need to (for merging or passing on 2 lane interstate at elevation). So for you, WOT is no issue. But we should keep that in mind when recommending the Edge to someone who does floor their truck every so often. Especially since some of these people are running aftermarket Cold Air Intake systems.

Yes, saying the Edge will cause 16:1 AFR was a little steep, i apologize. But I just dont understand why people would worship the Edge when a custom tailored tune is guaranteed safety. Sure, you save 50 bucks or so....but you paid a hell of a lot more than that for your truck, so why not protect the investment? The Edge's real selling point is the gauges.


Lastly, I’d be curious to see what Edge would say about the whole issue. Their generic units cannot accommodate the little changes in each truck's specific strategy code.

 

If you are still reading this thread, here is what I did.

2005 FX4 SCAB

I installed a SISO Magnaflow and an Airaid Jr at 12K because I wanted a better tone out the back than Ford offered stock. The Airaid Jr was really just to get rid of that ugly stock intake tube...and the filter was a little bonus. I didn't mind cleaning it and thought that I would save a few trees. That drop in filter, I thought, would do nothing in the performance column. The one thing that still bothered me was Ford's transmission program. For me, there was nothing wrong with the motor, but I wanted to "tighten up" the shifting to eliminate, or try to eliminate, the gear searching that it would go though every day to work.

This is where I agree with rms8. I thought about custom tuners, canned tuners, and CAI's to this decision: It's not worth the extra money without the other bolt-ons. That drop in air filter really doesn't do much for performance, so why put custom tunes on something that really can't take advantage of them. My choices were many for canned tuners that really would give the same fix on the shifting after reading about them on the forum (and other places) for over a year...they are all about the same. One tuner really got my attention after comparing: Edge. This thing had a dash-mounted LCD display that I can change to my liking! What an incredible deal!...350 bucks shipped! I received the Edge and programmed to the tranny only tune to find a great difference. The gear-searching went away with a little more firmness to boot. I was really happy with the result, so I reprogrammed to the tow tune. That tune actually increased the feel in the response column, especially on the throttle response. I then tried level 3 to find that it really was not different (to me) than level 2, so I no longer had to pay for premium gas. I never went to the dyno, as I think it is a giant waste of money for just trying to get a little extra out of that porky truck. That was my decision about a year ago with no problems since. I also do not plan on adding a CAI which would most likely require somewhat of a custom tune to avoid any problems like leaning out. I will most likely go to a 35 inch tire from my 285/65R18 BFG all terrains in a few months. I can change the tire size to have the shift points corrected.

As for longevity: I have not heard of anyone's motor burning a piston because of a canned tune on a stock truck. A catback exhaust does next to nothing to change the back pressure (I think that's the right term) since the smallest restriction in the exhaust system is still there...just sounds better. I don't think that I have anything to worry about.

On the side:
RMS8 - I know what you are trying to provide here in terms of advice. I am by no means an expert in the mechanical and/or physical parameters of the internal combustion engine, but come to places like this to try and develop that interest. I have always liked your post's contents being based on facts or really sound information...but, your sentence structure leads most readers to believe that you are a sarcastic know-it-all. I am sure that this is not your intention at all, but I think that is what is going on here. Just don't get banned by taunting, or whatever, because I really like to read the information you have to offer.

 

Those of you that say you are happy with the canned tunes and what they provide, that is great. But, it is really frustrating when you go on to say that the custom tunes can not provide any more for a stock engine. You have not experienced it, you do not know what you are speaking. I have experienced it and I would hate to go back to the canned tunes. I was happy with Level 3 for over a year, but now I am spoiled.

I'm happy for you that you are satisfied, just do not say that VMP, Troyer, or PHP can not provide a much better product for a basically stock truck.

 

I think I'll do this this week. Don't know if I would actually get the opportunity to speak with Mike himself though. He sounds like he's a really busy person, but we'll see. I'll also ask the guys at Edge too, specifically about how close to a lean condition their canned tunes put the motor. I can't imagine that the Level2 tune would come close and I would like to believe that they would have some sort of safety margin built in to their Level3 tune as well, but again, we'll see.

 

I have not had the time to call Mike and ask them questions, but I did speak with the folks at Edge. I posted this in a different thread, so here it is......

 

Hi Guys,

I have been reading this thread and enjoyed learning about the information on tunes.

I just bought a 2005 FX4 SCrew that is completely stock in great shape with 50K miles. However, the dealer who sold it new put on a six inch lift and 325/60/18 rims and tires.

I need some advice as to what I should be buying to get some responsiveness in the truck first and then consider MPG second. I do not want the gauges or a pod, just some improvement in the responsiveness to the truck. I would consider then adding the Gott's mod for a CAI and a magnaflow 22" muffler, if needed / recommended for improvement, but that would be it.


I believe I am "hearing" an Xcal (Troyer) may fit the bill for me...am I correct?

Thanks!

 

Yes, If you are not interested in the gauges, that should fit you fine. The tunes will be the most bang for the buck. Troyer is a great choice for the Xcal3.